Pilgrim Pride aluminum trawler?

[PNK]

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2004-pilgrim-progress-mark-ii-42-5963222/


Hi, I have been thinking about a bigger boat, and this one caught my eye, but I have never heard of the name before. Anyone familiar with this? I like the idea that it is an aluminum hull, and a Gil Fleming design, but I have also heard about potential issues with aluminum, and have no experience with it, other than an aluminum skiff I had when I was a teenager.

Thanks, I am sure some of you out there know about this.

Peter

 

[O C Diver]

A nice looking boat inside and out.

For me, some red flags:

If it's a displacement full, that's a ridiculously large engine (450 HP) for a 42' boat. Maybe it's a planning hull, don’t know.

Very low engine hours (350) for its age (17 ). Engines generally don't age well, sitting.

No pictures of engine room or bottom.

Ted

 

[O C Diver]

On a related note, anode protection is critical for aluminum boats. Friend of mine bought a crew boat from the Gulf with a current COI (certificate Of Inspection) to haul 15 passengers. The hull was too perfect with new barrier cote and bottom paint. Some years later he decided to redo the barrier and bottom paint. Sandblasting the bottom revealed the aluminum hull was horribly pitted and had been filled with epoxy putty before barrier and bottom painting.

I would need to see an aluminum boat's bare bottom before buying. Either that or have the hull plate thickness measured electronically.

Ted

 

[Datenight]

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2004-pilgrim-progress-mark-ii-42-5963222/


Thanks, I am sure some of you out there know about this.

Peter

Peter,

Diane and I looked at this boat in 2018. At the time it was somewhere above $250,000.00. Built in Canada and brought here by the original owner partially completed. My understanding is that the builder ran into money problems and the buyer got it out of there as soon as he could. May not be remembering this exactly. At the time we looked at it it was for sale due to a family (I think) illness. That also was the reason given for the low hours.

The finish inside is utilitarian to be kind. A lot of work to do or re do but usable as is. Paint was lifting everywhere on the exterior. My thought was remove and go bare aluminum. The boat itself seems to be well constructed but I did not get to the point of doing a survey.

As Ted said the engine is huge. It seems to me this is a displacement hull but again I could be wrong. Space in the engine compartment is tight as I remember.

I have checked on this boat from time to time and just looked again Tuesday. At $140,000.00 it seems like a much better deal.

Would love to see someone get and finish this boat. I have always liked their looks.

Rob

 

[long-cours.62]

She is cheaper than what we could find in Europe :
https://www.devalk.nl/en/yachtbrokerage/800817/TRAWLER-YACHT-41-FT.html


Sure it is a too big engine, need to check plating everywhere, open tanks water, diesel, bilge .
For the paint, if we don't trying tl sale our boat, we will do the same : remove it !!!

 

[Hippocampus]

The broker we used for our current boat is the broker for this boat. Seen her from the outside only. Needs work. Be prepared for the expense of a refit.

 

[PNK]

Pilgrim Pride Aluminum Trawler

Thanks to everyone for those comments, which are very helpful, especially Rob, who looked at the boat 3 years ago. I was able to find out a bit more, which jibes with what you all noted; the original builder in Canada went out of business, and the boat was "more or less" completed here in the States. But it definitely sat around somewhere for a long time, which is the main reason a 2004 boat has such low engine hours. They did admit that the day head was never completed, along with some other trim work, but claim that all the materials and parts needed are already on the boat and included. However, no one is saying much more for now.
It is about a 2 1/2 hour drive from where I live, so I will probably take a look over the next few weeks; seems like it could be "the buy of a lifetime", or a money pit, but given the designer, the beautiful lines, and the price, it seems worth looking into. Will report back after seeing it in person.
Happy and Healthy new year to everyone.
Peter

 

[KnotYet]

PNK, looking forward to your report!

The same to you.

 

[Mzlacey]

I currently own a 1970 46’ Aluminum Trawler. For what it is worth here is what I have learned about aluminum boats during my 6 years of ownership.
Have the hull sounded as part of survey.
Aluminum is not a good material for water tanks.
Aluminum does not hold paint well.
All hardware bolted to boat should be isolated.
Hull should be constantly monitored for stray electricity. I check on a regular basis with a multi meter and silver cathode. If necessary I will hang extra zincs off the boat.
Overall Aluminum is a great material for boats. Easy to keep bilges clean and sweet smelling. No worries about water intrusion in laminates.
Good luck

 

[backinblue]

Some wise person once said "There's nothing more expensive than a cheap boat."

 

[Circumnavigator]

I currently own a 1970 46’ Aluminum Trawler. For what it is worth here is what I have learned about aluminum boats during my 6 years of ownership.
Have the hull sounded as part of survey.
Aluminum is not a good material for water tanks.
Aluminum does not hold paint well.
All hardware bolted to boat should be isolated.
Hull should be constantly monitored for stray electricity. I check on a regular basis with a multi meter and silver cathode. If necessary I will hang extra zincs off the boat.
Overall Aluminum is a great material for boats. Easy to keep bilges clean and sweet smelling. No worries about water intrusion in laminates.
Good luck

Overall I agree, except for "Aluminum does not hold paint well." Fintry's wheelhouse and funnel are aluminum. They were painted after water blasting to bare metal with the rest of the boat (steel) in 2004. The paint on the aluminum has had zero maintenance in 17 years and still looks good. We had a similar comment from the skipper of a RCCG cutter in Baddeck -- the cutter is steel with an aluminum deckhouse -- no maintenance needed.


You have to be really careful with it. A penny in the bilge, or a stray piece of copper wire, can give you a hole.


We looked at this boat's ad when we were looking for Morning Light a year ago. Appealing, except that we wanted two cabins.


Jim

 

[Barrie]

Heads up!!
This boat has been on the market for two years. It was parked on the hard next to another boat I was looking at in 2019. I asked my surveyor to check it out after he had looked at the other boat. He told me it had a poor paint job and would need to be repainted. Seems paint on aluminum have to be done properly.
It looks like a sweet boat but it must have issues for still being on the market. Spend some $$$ and get it check out. Maybe the price is negotiable.
Good luck.
Barrie

 

[long-cours.62]

On sandblasted alloy if you paint immediately and no filler
your paint could stay for decade, but in my point of view only paint the deck for sun and no more

 

[Lostsailor13]

Love the round stern

For those of you with a vessel that has a round stern I’m sure you appreciate how well they track in a following sea,and not only that they are just very salty looking as well

 

[rpackard]

round stern

I own three boats, all with round sterns. I was always attracted to a sweet looking behind. And they are great with the waves behind .

 

[FF]

"Seems paint on aluminum have to be done properly."

Both aluminum and galvanized are more difficult to get paint to stick to , especially singe Uncle , restricted the best paint primer to mostly aircraft.

Rustoleum created a water based aluminum primer that can be over coated with water or oil based finish paint. Seems to work fine .

 

[Crux]

I like the boat and wouldn't consider the engine a deal breaker....its not a monster 11L this or that....just a mid-range 7.2L programmed at its highest rating with only an 8% duty cycle.....de-rating to its lowest gets you 250hp with a no limit duty cycle. So, I would investigate derate costs with Cat in the event a reflash requires a turbo and or injector change also.

Its just the mechanical 3116 with electronic hydraulic injection.....the very same Cat developed jointly with Navistar for use on their 444e 7.2...also known as the Ford 7.2 Powerstroke

 

[dannc]

The sale's description says the aluminum grade is 5M3. I have never heard of 5M3 and can't find a reference to that grade of aluminum. In the marine environment, a 5000 series aluminum should be used for the hull plating.

Maybe 5M3 is a typeo or a Canadian standard?

Later,
Dan

 

[KnotYet]

The sale's description says the aluminum grade is 5M3. I have never heard of 5M3 and can't find a reference to that grade of aluminum. In the marine environment, a 5000 series aluminum should be used for the hull plating.

Maybe 5M3 is a typeo or a Canadian standard?

Later,
Dan

It also could be read as 5003 or 5000-3.

 

[dannc]

It also could be read as 5003 or 5000-3.

Could be but I have never heard of a marine AL grade of 5003 or 5000-3.

Most likely the AL grade would be 5083 or 5086.

Later,
Dan

 

[Crux]

Yes, I think Broward Yacht used 5086.
Also, I would check to see if this boat built with an installed Capac system. Most
all builders of larger alum boats used them.....sometimes 2 or 3 units depending
on wetted area.

 

[Capn Bob]

PNK, there is a Pilgrim in our boatyard in Ossining. I have always admired her lines, but I was even more impressed after seeing her on the hard. It's a full displacement boat with the underwater profile of a commercial tugboat. The prop and rudder are huge for its length, and I greatly admired the round stern. I worked on a 65' tug many years ago (she had served as a tender for the Navy's "Mothball Fleet" up the Hudson) and I can tell you that the hull shape is ideal in rough conditions. Yes, it rolls but the roll is comfortable and we always felt that she was in no danger under very rough conditions. The rounded stern is a plus in a following sea.



Very handsome and, I believe, a seaworthy boat.


Bob

 

[PMF1984]

PNK, there is a Pilgrim in our boatyard in Ossining. I have always admired her lines, but I was even more impressed after seeing her on the hard. It's a full displacement boat with the underwater profile of a commercial tugboat. The prop and rudder are huge for its length, and I greatly admired the round stern. I worked on a 65' tug many years ago (she had served as a tender for the Navy's "Mothball Fleet" up the Hudson) and I can tell you that the hull shape is ideal in rough conditions. Yes, it rolls but the roll is comfortable and we always felt that she was in no danger under very rough conditions. The rounded stern is a plus in a following sea.



Very handsome and, I believe, a seaworthy boat.


Bob

Bob,
You are thinking of the Pilgrim 40, designed by Ted Gozzard and built by North Castle Marine in the 1980’s.

This string is on a different boat. But yes they do roll.

 

[PNK]

Wanted to let you all know that I went up to Portsmouth yesterday to see the boat, thanks to all of you for your comments, which helped frame how I looked at it. Yesterday re-enforced the fact that there is only so much you can tell from a digital listing. In some ways she looked better than expected, in some ways worse.
- She definitely needs to be taken down to bare metal and then properly re-painted, but the hull was actually in much better condition than topsides, which had a lot of peeling and flaking.
- The owner sailed her for about 3 weeks last summer, but she has only 350 hours on the engine, 750 hours on the generator. Pending a survey, I would lean towards keeping the engine, especially if it is possible to insulate it better, since I think, like many CATS, it is loud. As at least one of you mentioned, engine access is not great, and the space is not very well lit, but on the other hand it seemed very well laid-out, installed and labelled.
- the owner has taken the dinghy, which I believe was a Whaler, so that needs replacing.
- there is no railing around the after section of the bridge deck, which I would do, since it is not safe.
- the upper helm station controls probably needs to be replaced, some items have been removed.
- there is no FB canvas, another item to consider.

There are also some cosmetic items, like pilothouse headliner and day head, but I could probably do those over time, doesn't affect operation or safety.

Once I have some ball-park numbers for the above work, I can come up with an offering price, subject to survey and sea trial. However, the broker already told me that he tried to get the owner to list her at a lower price, but the owner said "she is worth much more than this"- which every owner probably thinks - and he may not be very open to negotiating. The fact that the boat has been on and off the market for so long is likely a confirmation of that point.
I did like the boat overall, and the single-cabin layout would really suit my wife and I, but if I had to make a bet I think I will need to keep looking.

 

[PNK]

Sorry, forgot to add one more thing, which I thought was interesting, and which was confirmed after I spoke to Gil Fleming, the designer. She has a modified semi-displacement hull, and trim tabs, which I don't think I have ever seen before on a trawler. The owner convinced Gil to use the CAT engine because he wanted to get up on plane, despite Gil telling him it wouldn't really work. The broker told me that when he took it out prior to listing it last summer, it could "sort of" get up, but in his opinion the fuel consumption was "stupid" and it made more sense to run the boat closer to hull speed.

 

[DDW]

but the owner said "she is worth much more than this"-

The definition of monetary value of anything is "the amount someone will pay for it". Anything above that is sentimental value.

 

[long-cours.62]

Don't know

The sale's description says the aluminum grade is 5M3. I have never heard of 5M3 and can't find a reference to that grade of aluminum. In the marine environment, a 5000 series aluminum should be used for the hull plating.

Maybe 5M3 is a typeo or a Canadian Dan

5M3 but know the 5383 named Sealium our boat was built with this type of alloy. 15% more strength than 50831
Lot of advantage but one big problem : much more expansive than the 083 or 508


PECHINEY SEALIUM MARINE ALUMINUM ALLOY BOATBUILDING AND DENSITIES OF MATERIALS
https://squalt-marine-international.com/about-sealium/




Some advantage but one big problem : much more expansive than the 5083 or 5086 :-(


5 15 % higher welded yield strength than standard 5083 alloy% higher welded yhttp://www.solarnavigator.net/aluminum_alloys.htmield strength than standard 5083 alloy

 

[dannc]

5M3 but know the 5383 named Sealium our boat was built with this type of alloy. 15% more strength than 50831
Lot of advantage but one big problem : uch more expansive than the 083 or 50
PECHINEY SEALIUM MARINE ALUMINUM ALLOY BOATBUILDING AND DENSITIES OF MATERIALS
https://squalt-marine-international.com/about-sealium/

Some advantage but one big problem : much more expansive than the 5083 or 5086 :-( 15 % higher welded yield strength than standard 5083 alloy% higherww.solarnavigator.net/aluminum_alloys.htmield strength than standard 5083 alloy

5383 is a good marine AL, it is the best of 5083 and 5086, basically increased "strength" and corrosion resistance. Never heard of it called 5M3 so I learned something.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Hippocampus]

Know Dave well and have done business with him. Believe he’s honest and quite upfront in telling you the realities of a boat. PM me if you have further questions.
Have seen that vessel. It was more of a project than I was willing to undertake.

Personally would take the hull to bare metal and leave it that way. Spend the effort on the topsides. Paint the house but give thought to treadmaster, Vetus or other similar glued down covering for the decks. As you know Al holds paint only with difficulty. Believe painting the hull would be something requiring ongoing expense and maintenance. Al gets hot so a deck covering would be more pleasant on your feet and ultimately less work than paint. A neutral light color, particularly if going south, would seem best. Would also give a slight thermal barrier to the inside and decrease noise inside a little bit.more so if you went with one of the closed cell foam products.

 

[long-cours.62]

Sorry I was

5383 is a good marine AL, it is the best of 5083 and 5086, basically increased "strength" and corrosion resistance. Never heard of it called 5M3 so I learned something.

Thanks,
Dan

Not clear I don't say 5M3 is the 5383
I only suppose something wrong because I am French

5M3 was an abbreviation for 5 mille 3 xx but ... In English mille is...thousand :lol: