Ford Industrial Engine Help

[iggstermanBMC]

Last May13th of 2023 I posted needing help to identify a Ford Industrial engine. Many thanks to those who responded. It was identified as a Ford Industrial engine manufactured in December of 1959.
Since then the motor would not turn over, maybe hydrolcked but after a look inside the cylinders it was discovered that rust had formed on the tops of the pistons. After several weeks of introduction of rust inhibitor the engine now turns over. We are moving ahead to save this motor at lease to power the tug from Lake Champlain to Buffalo NY.
My question now is, do we rebuild the Ford engine or repower with a new diesel.
If a new diesel what’s our best choice.

 

[KnotYet]

Any 4 cylinder approximately 4 liter naturally aspirated diesel would work well.
A used Perkins 4.236 in good shape would push your baby quite nicely, as would
most other similar engines.
If you want to stay with the original 6 cyl 5.x L size, a used Lehman might drop in.

 

[twistedtree]

If it's the same as the Ford Lehman, someone was selling one here on TF a little while ago. Beyond that I think it will depend greatly on the extent of damage to the original engine, parts availability, sleeved vs non sleeved, etc.

 

[Larry M]

What twistedtree said. Check the availability of parts for your engine first. Have you sourced any or called American Diesel in Virginia? A friend had a 4 cylinder Ford Lehman. Parts were very hard to find to the point he had to modify a thermostat.

If you can find parts, I'd rebuild. We went through the rebuild vs repower with our FL135. Rebuild complete, including the running gear was ~$15K. Repower was pushing $65K. We rebuilt.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Well, if price is a consideration, I'd look for a Detroit Diesel. With your vessel age, you could do it. They are going reasonable now since they have been "outlawed". Parts avail all over the world, helluva engine. Good thing that smog from other countries still using them doesn't come over here.

 

[mvweebles]

I'm happy with NY Perkins 4.236 (80hp). I considered empowering with a Deere 4045 natural which seemed to be readily available in the resale market. Trans Atlantic Diesel in Maryland has professionally rebuilt 4.236s. I can't remember exactly, but I seem to recall the 4 cylinder Ford Lehman is significantly different than the 120. My sense is the 4 cylinder is a lessor engine compared to its 6 cylinder brethren.

Several older Willards had oddball engines. Gray Marine, International, etc. These definitely hurt resale, so that's a consideration, cost to re-power may be rationalized.

Peter

 

[Jeff F]

Beta Marine has a good range of small marine diesels. Something in the 60-90 HP range may be adequate, depending on your use case.

Interesting boat. Tell us more.

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using Trawler Forum mobile app

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Do not rebuild or repower. You should be able to make that industrial engine as good as new, unless it has a million hours on it.

Get it to turn over, use whatever rust breaker you like. many people use P.B. Blaster and automatic transmission fluid in equal parts. Service the injectors and get fresh diesel fuel and fire it up. It will smoke, search and probably run rough for a while but should settle down within a few minutes or half hour.

Then just run it, a lot.

pete

 

[Nomad Willy]

I second the Detroit.

 

[Lepke]

Detroit Diesels are only outlawed on commercial boats and can't be installed in new build boats. It doesn't matter how clean an engine burns or what the mileage is if it doesn't run. I wish the EPA could figure that out. But they ride bicycles.

It all about how much money you want to spend. It's cheaper to rebuild most engines than buy new. Your engine probably is used in tractors, too.
A used good running Detroit could last 20 years. A rebuilt, just about forever. My DDs were built in 1947. They'll be running for someone long after I'm in the ground.

Find some business in farm country, maybe a Ford tractor dealer, and see what they want to rebuild. If you pull the engine and deliver it to an automotive engine rebuilder, it would cost about $5k+ if you put it together. And as little as $2.5k if you do everything. I did a Perkins 4 cylinder for less than $2.5k a few years ago.

 

[CharlieO.]

I would look into the possibility of rebuilding what is there. I am guessing there is a pretty stout drivetrain to get going especially since it was a working tugboat by the looks.

I am interested to hear more about this vessel too.

 

[mickand]

i would think a decent shop could easily rebuild it, provided they can source parts.
There are UK sources for old Ford engine parts as they were prolific in trucks back then.
Google the UK for parts or maybe someone here has knowledge.
I know someone who was sourcing a new Simms fuel injection pump (used on old Fords) - their info is below.
I'm not saying they are the right company, but may be able to point you in the right direction.
Tel: 011 44 1233 642816 | E: info@delphipartsstore.co.uk












uk

 

[Island Cessna]

https://bellingham.craigslist.org/bpo/d/bellingham-ford-dagenham-diesel-paragon/7630493661.html

Bill

 

[Nepidae]

Ford Industrial

First, you don't mention anything about the boat. Picture shows it is a TUG, but nothing about size (length or weight) so it is hard to recommend any HP engine.

Second, as a Ford Lehman owner, twin 135HP on a 43 Albin sundeck, a very heavy boat, IF your tug is heavy, probably an understatement, then I'd suggest as was said to try and get the original engine working. It is probably sized to the boat.

Our 135's burn less than 2gal/hr/ea doing 1800RPM and moving the boat at 8mph. What I consider very respectable.

My 'guess' is that the Ford Industrial is a precursor to the Ford Lehman, but I'd also suggest a call to American Diesel in VA and talk to Brian. They have parts but also Brian is very knowledgeable (his father was part of the Ford Lehman birth) and there are plenty of Ford Lehman's still pushing boats plying the waters.

You should do your best, if your engine can't be saved, to stay with a natural aspirated engine. Newer engines are heavy with computerized parts which can be problematic, especially with mechanics that don't have the right computers to diagnose the trouble.

Naturals are usually simple enough that parts and mechanics are plentiful.

In closing, IF the original motor powers your boat from Lake Champlain to Buffalo, then it should go the distance. I would just do oil & filter changes along with fuel filter changes more frequently. IF the fuel tanks haven't been checked as to the fuel condition, I'd do that as well and if necessary, pump out what is there (do NOT clean the tank(s) as you could open a leak) and replace with fresh. You might also include Racor filter changes if you have those.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Capn Bob]

Although you don’t give any details about your tug, judging by the very tall stack it’s very likely this boat was originally steam-powered. Boilers require a tall stack to promote a draft from the firebox. Diesels do not need tall stacks, and in fact it would be a disadvantage.

I agree with those folks who suggest you try to get this diesel working. The English Ford diesels are very robust and have a long service life, and parts are still available. If you decide to get this diesel running, I’d recommend that you replace the hoses and rubber parts, including the fuel lift pump which uses a rubber diaphragm.

Would love to hear more about your tug!

 

[KnotYet]

First, you don't mention anything about the boat. Picture shows it is a TUG, but nothing about size (length or weight) so it is hard to recommend any HP engine.

Second, as a Ford Lehman owner, twin 135HP on a 43 Albin sundeck, a very heavy boat, IF your tug is heavy, probably an understatement, then I'd suggest as was said to try and get the original engine working. It is probably sized to the boat.

Our 135's burn less than 2gal/hr/ea doing 1800RPM and moving the boat at 8mph. What I consider very respectable.

My 'guess' is that the Ford Industrial is a precursor to the Ford Lehman, but I'd also suggest a call to American Diesel in VA and talk to Brian. They have parts but also Brian is very knowledgeable (his father was part of the Ford Lehman birth) and there are plenty of Ford Lehman's still pushing boats plying the waters.

You should do your best, if your engine can't be saved, to stay with a natural aspirated engine. Newer engines are heavy with computerized parts which can be problematic, especially with mechanics that don't have the right computers to diagnose the trouble.

Naturals are usually simple enough that parts and mechanics are plentiful.

In closing, IF the original motor powers your boat from Lake Champlain to Buffalo, then it should go the distance. I would just do oil & filter changes along with fuel filter changes more frequently. IF the fuel tanks haven't been checked as to the fuel condition, I'd do that as well and if necessary, pump out what is there (do NOT clean the tank(s) as you could open a leak) and replace with fresh. You might also include Racor filter changes if you have those.

Good luck with your project.

As a well-known and historic vessel, the C. L. Churchill's info was easy to find here:
https://www.lcmm.org/visit/tugboat-cl-churchill/

 

[C lectric]

Already suggest but I too would at least try to contact American Diesel, Brian.
If he can't help directly he may be able to make some good suggestions.