She’s @ Her New Home

[iggstermanBMC]

This is a follow up to my original forum post on May 13th, 2023. With the help from members I was able to determine the age and engine specs of my Ford Industrial Engine. She is a model 590E, in line 6 cylinder Ford Industrial Diesel Engine producing 99hp at 2400rpm. Manufactured on December 1959.
Yes, the engine is older than the boat.
The organization that I belong to ( Buffalo Maritime Center ) bought the tugboat C L Churchill this past summer and brought her to Buffalo NY on a two week voyage down Lake Champlain to the Champlain Canal to the New York State Barge Canal arriving on October 30th at the Canalside on the Buffalo waterfront.
The engine power runs through a Paragon transmission Model HJ7C-L, a Paragon Reduction gear Model RC30-L.
The engine performance was good, only using 16oz. of oil every 2 days. The head gasket had just been replaced with no machining done to head or block.
At idle she smoked badly which made locking a choking experience.
So what now, rebuild a 64 year old engine, replace the engine, replace the engine and drive line completely.
Some thoughts from forum readers.

 

[tiltrider1]

If she starts and only uses 16oz over 48 hours I wouldn’t touch a thing.

 

[twistedtree]

I would seek to repair the existing engine, but first confirm you can get parts, and second do some diagnostics to sort out what's wrong rather than just embarking on a "rebuild".


When you say 16oz of oil every two days, how many engine operating hours is that? 48hrs, or something closer 16 hrs assuming 8hrs per day underway. Either way, that strikes me as very high oil consumption, unless someone knows that's normal for that engine? We are talking about a quart every 30hr, or perhaps every 75 hrs? I might consume a quart in 500 hrs. Very different generations of engines, but still, that seems like a lot of oil to me.


I'd check compression. If that's poor it could easily explain the incomplete combustion at idle. Same if the injector spray pattern is poor. I think people generally jump too quickly to injectors as a problem source, but with a 60 year old engine, I think it's worth having them tested.

 

[iggstermanBMC]

She’s @Her New Home

We cruised at 1400 rpm for 7 to 8 hours straight.
When the previous owners tried to start the engine this spring the engine would not turn over. First they thought she was hydro locked then they removed the injectors and inserted a borescope and saw rust on the top of the cylinders.
After using transmission oil and Sea Foam the engine came free after two weeks.
The engine oil was changed twice after that, and after many miles of actual cruising the head gasket needed to be replaced. We actually have the old head gasket.
One other thing about this engine, it has only one piston ring per cylinder. I think that we have one or more piston rings rusted in place.
One more thing comes to mind, this boat sat in her cradle for three years and I don’t know if she was ever serviced in those years.

 

[Comodave]

We had Detroits in a previous boat that used a gallon of oil per 25 hours running. We just carried 5 gallon buckets of oil with us. They ran like tops just used some oil.

 

[Action]

One other thing about this engine, it has only one piston ring per cylinder. I think that we have one or more piston rings rusted in place.

Not sure how you came to the conclusion the pistons only have one ring.

https://everythingaboutboats.org/ford-m-592e-590e/
Based on this link it should have 5.
Three compression rings and two oil control rings.

Other than maybe hobby engines or lawn mower engines, I have never seen an engine with less than three rings. And a diesel usually has more than that.

The recommendation above for a compression test would be spot on. Diagnose first, plan a repair, then buy parts and execute the plan
.
And that 4 stroke 330 CID diesel was made to be remanufactured many times. Replaceable wet cylinder liners is the tip off for that.

Good luck with your new purchase.

 

[iggstermanBMC]

She’s @Her New Home

Thanks for the info, thought I had all my research completed.
I’ve been pouring over all the resources it can my eyes on and didn’t make that up about one piston ring.
Thanks for the info, I appreciate your feed back.

 

[tiltrider1]

Tolerances on a 99 year old engine are going to be very loose. I would expect oil consumption to be higher than a much more modern Detroit Diesel.

 

[BruceK]

The oil consumption is high, I suggest look at a rebuild before something let`s go. You`ve had the head off, how did the bores look, were the pistons slack in the bores?
Changing engines involves changing lots of other things, keeping it will be easier and less costly.

 

[vacser]

Being that old, your valve guide seals could be bad causing the smoke and oil burn. I would change them first

 

[Bmarler]

Thanks for the info, thought I had all my research completed.
I’ve been pouring over all the resources it can my eyes on and didn’t make that up about one piston ring.
Thanks for the info, I appreciate your feed back.

If that’s the same 590e used in fordson tractors it should have 5 rings per hole. There’s a post here: https://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb3/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=590e&start=50
Hopefully it takes you there.
If not, go to fordsontractorpages.nl go to the search box and put in 590e. On the third page of posts it called out the piston rings.

 

[twistedtree]

Hard to imagine only 1 ring

 

[O C Diver]

I would draw an oil sample and send it off for oil analysis to Blackstone Labs. Before hypothesizing on what you could or should do, it would be a good idea to get an overall idea of what problems may exist. Oil analysis can tell you a great deal.

Ted

 

[PM]

For sure an oil analysis!

Then:

Consider a rebuild. Sounds to me like rings and valve guides. Both can be done with the engine in the boat given the size of the tug and the room you have available. Look around the engine room, you can probable find lift points on the ceiling. The engine has been out of its place before, no doubt.

pete

 

[twistedtree]

We cruised at 1400 rpm for 7 to 8 hours straight.
When the previous owners tried to start the engine this spring the engine would not turn over. First they thought she was hydro locked then they removed the injectors and inserted a borescope and saw rust on the top of the cylinders.
After using transmission oil and Sea Foam the engine came free after two weeks.
The engine oil was changed twice after that, and after many miles of actual cruising the head gasket needed to be replaced. We actually have the old head gasket.
One other thing about this engine, it has only one piston ring per cylinder. I think that we have one or more piston rings rusted in place.
One more thing comes to mind, this boat sat in her cradle for three years and I don’t know if she was ever serviced in those years.

Now I remember the first part of this story. The excellent news is that you got it running again and made the trip. But it sure does sound like there is some damage. Given the history, and known damage, Intake back my earlier comment about attempting a spot repair. And lingering damage will only get worse over time. I would probably go forward with a teardown, inspection, and parts renewal as needed. The only exception would be if the planned usage of the boat is very light and you can just live with it as it is.

 

[Adopo]

This is so cool, glad to see the old boat running. Reminds me of one of my favorite youtube channels.

 

[Mako]

I love the romanticism of the old engines. I was considering buying an old cadet training ship which was powered by a Fairbanks Morse 3 cylinder opposed engine, which I recall was about 300 hp.

Not really practical to install in a modern boat, but nice to appreciate them.

 

[iggstermanBMC]

Now that we have our tugboat at her home port ( Buffalo NY ) we have taken on winter storage and now repairs to things that need immediate upgrades.
After we bought her and voyaged to Buffalo the seller had some wood to replace. Namely the forefoot, all work completed before leaving Lake Champlain and on to Buffalo NY.
Now we are preparing the bottom to paint and found that the area around the replaced forefoot was caulked with a product called Davis Slick Seam.
That’s the only area on the boat where Slick Seam was used, now we can’t find Slick Seam and my research tells me it’s no longer available and a lot of work to remove it and the possibility that another caulk won’t adhere to those areas.
Anyone have an idea on what or how we can proceed ?