Hippocampus
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2020
- Messages
- 3,979
- Location
- Plymouth
- Vessel Name
- Hippocampus
- Vessel Make
- Nordic Tug 42
Art in the last 12 m I bought 2400+g of diesel at an average of $6/g or $14,000. My boat is a 2007. I rebuilt the shaft, cutlass, replaced the stuffing box, redid various engine components, serviced the SeaKeeper, watermaker and plumbing. We replaced the flooring and redid the woodwork. Worked on the AC and serviced the heating. Also serviced the genset. Also replaced he electronics and had 2 short hauls for the bottom and running gear. Finally had the outer skin of the boat deck removed to replace all balsa with foam then reskinned along with having junction between flybridge and deck glassed instead of being connected by caulking.
My costs are in excess of $100k. Admittedly like Peter she’s near a like new boat and the next cycle of refit is probably a another decade away. Still after having multiple cruising boats believe your estimates of costs are way off. The general statement of 10% of purchase is probably closer to the truth for ICE/grp boats. Have every reason to believe cost of ownership for LDL/hybrid would be less.
So now let’s look at a hybrid LDL.
Al- no maintenance of hull beyond bottom and running gear. No waxing, buffing, Al grip or paint. 10 y replacement of walking surfaces. Modest costs for anodes but comparable to grp.
50% or greater decreased costs to maintain ICE engines (generators and propulsion) with similar improvement in service life. Both from some portion of electric propulsion and greatly increased efficiency of hull as well as alt energy for house loads.
Inherent improvement in propulsion redundancy and safety.
10-20% increase in initial costs. Offset in part by increase in residual value at end of ownership. Sooner or later dinosaur juice is going away.
As said above for individuals with very modest use economics favor used ICE but for new construction I don’t think that’s the case for a cruising boat. I understand few people cruise and average use is under 5000nm/year. But a segment remains who either travel internationally or snow bird up and down the coasts annually. Average length of ownership is around 5y from what I understand but cruisers tend to hold onto boats longer in my experience. So the economics for cruisers is different. Furthermore there’s little doubt in my mind that ICE service costs will continue to rise as will fuel costs.
The economic downside of a LDL hull is berthing costs. For equivalent lifestyle and usable living space a LDL hull will be 25% or greater LOA with similar rise in berthing expenses. While traveling anchoring out decreases this expense but it’s usually obligatory whenever the vessel is stored be it at a home point or times owners are involved in other activities. Still with even modest ICE cruising boats in the 40-50’ range costing in excess of $1m for new construction LDL/hybrid at a price point of $1 3/4 to 2 1/2m become competitive in that market.
As an aside know the N41 and 51 are in great demand. Neither offer enough appropriate surfaces for solar to meet hotel demands if living aboard. Both will face increasing annual cost of ownership. Both are extremely capable cruising boats but doubt few will be used to their capabilities. Costs are comparable to the various series production LDL/hybrid currently on the market. North American sailors and boaters are very slow adapters compared to other markets. However earlier it was posited which you would buy-ICE, hybrid or pure electric. If in the market for a new cruising boat even during this transition period of time I’d rather own hybrid than a dinosaur design fueled exclusively by dinosaur juice. Naval architecture has evolved as have propulsion systems.
My costs are in excess of $100k. Admittedly like Peter she’s near a like new boat and the next cycle of refit is probably a another decade away. Still after having multiple cruising boats believe your estimates of costs are way off. The general statement of 10% of purchase is probably closer to the truth for ICE/grp boats. Have every reason to believe cost of ownership for LDL/hybrid would be less.
So now let’s look at a hybrid LDL.
Al- no maintenance of hull beyond bottom and running gear. No waxing, buffing, Al grip or paint. 10 y replacement of walking surfaces. Modest costs for anodes but comparable to grp.
50% or greater decreased costs to maintain ICE engines (generators and propulsion) with similar improvement in service life. Both from some portion of electric propulsion and greatly increased efficiency of hull as well as alt energy for house loads.
Inherent improvement in propulsion redundancy and safety.
10-20% increase in initial costs. Offset in part by increase in residual value at end of ownership. Sooner or later dinosaur juice is going away.
As said above for individuals with very modest use economics favor used ICE but for new construction I don’t think that’s the case for a cruising boat. I understand few people cruise and average use is under 5000nm/year. But a segment remains who either travel internationally or snow bird up and down the coasts annually. Average length of ownership is around 5y from what I understand but cruisers tend to hold onto boats longer in my experience. So the economics for cruisers is different. Furthermore there’s little doubt in my mind that ICE service costs will continue to rise as will fuel costs.
The economic downside of a LDL hull is berthing costs. For equivalent lifestyle and usable living space a LDL hull will be 25% or greater LOA with similar rise in berthing expenses. While traveling anchoring out decreases this expense but it’s usually obligatory whenever the vessel is stored be it at a home point or times owners are involved in other activities. Still with even modest ICE cruising boats in the 40-50’ range costing in excess of $1m for new construction LDL/hybrid at a price point of $1 3/4 to 2 1/2m become competitive in that market.
As an aside know the N41 and 51 are in great demand. Neither offer enough appropriate surfaces for solar to meet hotel demands if living aboard. Both will face increasing annual cost of ownership. Both are extremely capable cruising boats but doubt few will be used to their capabilities. Costs are comparable to the various series production LDL/hybrid currently on the market. North American sailors and boaters are very slow adapters compared to other markets. However earlier it was posited which you would buy-ICE, hybrid or pure electric. If in the market for a new cruising boat even during this transition period of time I’d rather own hybrid than a dinosaur design fueled exclusively by dinosaur juice. Naval architecture has evolved as have propulsion systems.
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