Paint or gelcoat

[Comodave]

When you say the bottom, I assume you mean the hull. That price isn’t out of line from what I have seen. You might look into doing some of the work yourself, it isn’t rocket science. Especially if you work with the per hour guy. You could hire him and have him show you how to do some of the grunt work and then have him do the more technical work and the painting. It isn’t hard to learn how to do some of the dewaxing, sanding, filling, taping, etc. you can save yourself a bunch of money. Paying someone $85, what my painter charges, to tape and mask the boat is a place you can save lots of money. Dewaxing is easy work and if you save 5 hours of paid labor it adds up. Also just being a helper will make it go much faster for the painter. Being a gofer is easy to do.

I don’t think I would put the clear film on the side of the boat. It may pick up dirt around the edges and look horrible after a while. Also if it needs to come off it can be a bear. If this was an issue everyone would be doing it but I haven’t heard of it, but then maybe I just don’t know...

 

[Beau Sejour]

By bottom I mean above the water line.
I’m preatty manual but I run out of time and the boat is at. 2h30 drive from my home.
$85/hour is also the rate here.

 

[Comodave]

Ok, it sounds like you need to move... That is too bad that you are so far away. I am lucky that our storage barn is 1 mile from my house. I have a key to the yard so I get to come and go whenever I want. Makes it much easier. Looks like you will have to pony up the bucks. Too bad. But enjoy the new look of your boat. Ours looks entirely different. So will yours when it is done.

 

[rgano]

Today I received my first quote
$15K only for the bottom with Awlgrip (Cracks repaired + +primer 2 coats+ clear coat)
They recommand 3M clear protection film on the fender section (same as for front car to protect against bugs).
They evaluated bottom and top at more than $40K -$50K,.....
I told them I will not pay that amount.
The boat value is +-100K in overall very good condition Including most important the mechanics.
They asked me for a detail video because they are far from the boat,
I will provide it next weekend for a quote revision.
I’m also waiting for an inside space availability close to the boat where my local fibreglass /gelcoat technicien is willing to do the paint job on an hour bases.
I trust this guy and he wants the job for the winter.
It is still a work in progress project...
I own this boat for 8Y and love it.
I want to keep it probably for another 15Y including a great loop trip in 3-5Y on my retirement.
In my mind I would be willing to invest +-25K-30K for the total job.
Feel free to comment
Thanks to all

I am not a pro spray painter, but for that kind of money I would become one. I'd say it's time for you to DIY this. I kept my wooden hulled trawler looking good for 29 years doing all the paint prep work myself. I had the hull sprayed with Awlgrip twice in all that time, and I rolled and tipped it several times - I could never really see the difference from spray to my own r/t. With a friend helping me once, the rolling and tipping of the hull from bow to stern took 45 minutes perside - prep took about a week. The rest of the boat's topside painting was easily divided into small chunks for rolling and tipping. I never attempted a full paint job from waterline to mast truck in one effort but rather just kept plugging away at different areas as needed over time without ever taking the boat out of service for more than a day or two at a time. Cost for the DIY hull painting was 500 bucks.

 

[sean9c]

Painting the hull is the easy part. Labor hours to paint the house is multiples of those to paint the hull.

 

[bligh]

I chose awlgrip. I'd rather paint twice in 20 years rather than buff and wax every year, especially with a darker hull.
Repairs to awlgrip are seamless if your painter knows what he is doing.
I would also suggest to choose one of their stock colors so you have easy access to that colore down the road.

 

[sean9c]

You can't repair Awlgrip. Sure you can spray a patch, blend it back in but buffing damages the original paint and it will deteriorate faster.
I don't actually know why anyone would use Awlgrip anymore. Alexseal does all that Awlgrip does, is easier to spray, might even be slightly cheaper and is repairable.

 

[Comodave]

You can't repair Awlgrip. Sure you can spray a patch, blend it back in but buffing damages the original paint and it will deteriorate faster.
I don't actually know why anyone would use Awlgrip anymore. Alexseal does all that Awlgrip does, is easier to spray, might even be slightly cheaper and is repairable.

+1.

 

[mvweebles]

I think you have to be careful about tossing around numbers for a full paint job. If you can get away with a light hand sanding and some relatively minor spot repairs, DIY prep works fine I suppose. But a decent yard will spend 100s of hours removing hardware vs taping around it. They also apply multiple layers of hi-build primer with long-board sanding between, and hand sanding the myriad of nooks and bends of a boat, a very tedious and labor intensive process. Professionally done Non-skid areas are also expensive to have done even in same color. Just having the facilities to spray something the size of a boat is a major expense - even a temporary shelter constructed around scaffolding takes time and money.

Im not going to defend boat yards, but I do think threads like these fail to set realistic expectations. A DIY style paint job is miles apart from a professional one. In some cases that's fine - only thing needed is to refresh the finish. If I were running a yard and had to put my reputation behind it, I would follow the paint manufacturers recommendations for full surface prep. There simply is not some number like $300/foot (the most cited number I see, which is a pipe dream).

For me, I had 50 years of surface degradation but that wasn't the hard part. Hard part was Weebles had a half dozen well meaning DIY owners with various installations and doo-dad's. Plus changes in technology mean the large holes for instruments and speakers needed to be repaired back to fair.

Before steaming 3-days south to Mexico, I traded 100s of pictures with a yard about costs for a full paint job. $20k-$25k was the estimate with plenty of caveats. When I got there, the estimate jumped to $50k which I think was their way of saying they just didn't want to do the work. So I found some other folks who used to work at the yard and were trained and certified by both AlexSeal and AwlGrip (I went AlexSeal). We landed at $23k. They spent weeks and weeks of 2-3 workmen doing the repair and prep.

In closing, I'll say I've seen some very nice DIY paint jobs. I watched a cruising couple on a 48 foot Amel sailboat do an amazing job - it took them an entire summer of evenings and weekends. They were meticulous and patient. And I saw the boat 15 years later and it still looked good, though they commented I did not looks closely enough and they had some areas with adhesion issues. Easy enough to fix, but not something a professional yard would be happy to have happen.

If the OP can find a T&M worker to do a skilled DIY type paint job, great. But you still have to decide how far to take the prep. Do you paint around cleats and fittings, or remove and reinstall?

Bottom line, comparing DIY paint jobs to professional ones is tricky. I'd encourage threads like these to describe the prep work needed vs give random estimates of 'I spent a week of prep then painted.'. 40 hours of prep on a 40+ foot boat is not going to cut it. Even in Mexico I could not talk a yard into a "20-foot paint job" where it looked fine unless you got too close. They had their process and outcome that they stood behind. They didn't really know how to cut corners to produce a lessor outcome.

Peter

 

[Cigatoo]

Have you looked into getting the boat wrapped? I have seen a couple in this part of the world this year that look great. Can’t tell them apart from a professional awlgrip paint job. I was told $100 per foot for the hull with a 10 year guarantee. They did a 30 foot sailboat in one day. Definitely worth a look.

 

[FF]

The prep work is the longest and expensive to have done , but in a DIY yard worth the effort.

Fairing a hull with a long board is great if required , we have used a jitter bug sander mounted to move the long board and then it just needs to be held in place and moved about.

If the boat will be owned for a long time, tip &roll by the owner or hired help should be fine.

The $30,000 paint job can wait to sell the boat.

Chicago Pneumatic CP7268 Heavy Duty Twin Piston Straight Line Sander.

 

[rgano]

You can't repair Awlgrip. Sure you can spray a patch, blend it back in but buffing damages the original paint and it will deteriorate faster.
I don't actually know why anyone would use Awlgrip anymore. Alexseal does all that Awlgrip does, is easier to spray, might even be slightly cheaper and is repairable.

I see this oft-repeated old wives' tale to which I say, "It depends." If you are speaking of a large flat area like a fiberglass hull in the middle of which you want to repaint a ding, sure, maybe the repair will not be perfect. However, for a boat with either real of the simulated hull planking with beveled joints, an Awlgrip repair where I painted on strake was not noticeable. Also the many facets of the house can be easily repaired one at a time. I used to spend a couple of hours prep on a sunny day and recoating small house areas at least two hours before dew time, and I knew to the teaspoon how much Awlgrip base was needed to coat the areas. Pull tape before dark and underway for whatever activity the next morning.

When it came to repairing the red AwlCRAFT of my current slab-sided boat after hurricane Michael, sure, I hired a pro, and it looks perfect where he faired in an area from the bow going aft two feet back on the port side. Worth the 2,000 dollars for that plus some other scratches.

 

[sean9c]

Hardly an old wives tale when the paint manufacturer says it.

I see this oft-repeated old wives' tale to which I say, "It depends." If you are speaking of a large flat area like a fiberglass hull in the middle of which you want to repaint a ding, sure, maybe the repair will not be perfect. However, for a boat with either real of the simulated hull planking with beveled joints, an Awlgrip repair where I painted on strake was not noticeable. Also the many facets of the house can be easily repaired one at a time. I used to spend a couple of hours prep on a sunny day and recoating small house areas at least two hours before dew time, and I knew to the teaspoon how much Awlgrip base was needed to coat the areas. Pull tape before dark and underway for whatever activity the next morning.

When it came to repairing the red AwlCRAFT of my current slab-sided boat after hurricane Michael, sure, I hired a pro, and it looks perfect where he faired in an area from the bow going aft two feet back on the port side. Worth the 2,000 dollars for that plus some other scratches.

 

[rgano]

Hardly an old wives tale when the paint manufacturer says it.

So you don't believe my personal testimony?

 

[bligh]

You can't repair Awlgrip. Sure you can spray a patch, blend it back in but buffing damages the original paint and it will deteriorate faster.
I don't actually know why anyone would use Awlgrip anymore. Alexseal does all that Awlgrip does, is easier to spray, might even be slightly cheaper and is repairable.

This statement is 100% False.



I have already done it. I had a repair done on my awlgrip and you cannot tell where the new and existing pain begin and end. This was a concern when I originally was choosing paints, and the painter told me it wasn't true. I believed him. And he proved himself right.

 

[bligh]

Have you looked into getting the boat wrapped? I have seen a couple in this part of the world this year that look great. Can’t tell them apart from a professional awlgrip paint job. I was told $100 per foot for the hull with a 10 year guarantee. They did a 30 foot sailboat in one day. Definitely worth a look.

I have done this too. I don't know any 10 year warranties on wraps. I regularly get 5 year warranties on our vehicles. But boats are different. A wrap wont last that long in the sun. And don't even think of trying it get it off after 10 years; it will be near impossible. If you get your boat wrapped, plan on it lasting five years, then strip it off and do it again (or sell the boat). The 3 year old wrap on my boat is already starting to peel and get sun damaged in some areas. Mind you it's holding up pretty well, but I m planning on peeling it off in another 2 years or so.

 

[mvweebles]

I have done this too. I don't know any 10 year warranties on wraps. I regularly get 5 year warranties on our vehicles. But boats are different. A wrap wont last that long in the sun. And don't even think of trying it get it off after 10 years; it will be near impossible. If you get your boat wrapped, plan on it lasting five years, then strip it off and do it again (or sell the boat). The 3 year old wrap on my boat is already starting to peel and get sun damaged in some areas. Mind you it's holding up pretty well, but I m planning on peeling it off in another 2 years or so.

How hard is it to get the wrap off?

 

[sean9c]

No, I believe you and I've done the same thing. I'm not having an argument with you but the things that you can do to your own boat and each individuals level of acceptance is different to what a professional should do to a customers boat. I also believe the manufacturer, the pro yards and pro painters that say it's not repairable. I'll also say that I've had pretty good luck repairing light colors and terrible luck repairing dark colors. Here is a pretty good example, a 54ft trawler hull was painted in dark blue, it was sprayed. The boat was big enough that you couldn't get around the whole boat before where you started tacked off. So it ended up with some overspray on the finish making it rough, especially above the guard. After about 6 months, to allow the paint to cure fully, the paint above the guard, and only above the guard, was light cut and buffed to try and get rid of he roughness. It worked pretty well and the paint then matched the untouched paint that was below the guard. A year later the paint above the guard was noticeably less glossy than that below. At that point we kinda knew we were screwed so just kept buffing the paint about once a year to try and keep it looking decent until it was time to repaint the whole hull.
If that hull was painted white I'm pretty sure that you could have gotten away with what we did and been in better shape.

So you don't believe my personal testimony?

 

[rgano]

I don't get paid for my boat work, but I will stack what I am willing to tackle (including repairing Snow White Awlgrip) up against any "professional" you care to point out, EXCEPT as you correctly point out dark paints. I was unwilling to risk my red hull's Awlcraft paint job on ME trying to repair it. The manufacturer says don't buff it, but when the option is that or a whole new hull paint job, I was willing to let the guy who did the million-dollar paint job on the 100-foot long schooner Columbia have a go at it. Over a year ago, I stood dumbfounded as he went over a two by two foot section of primed hull with top coat and even further amazed as he blended it and the clear coat seamlessly in. Apparently sometime before I bought the boat somebody repaired the area with some paint with a very close color match, but five years after I bought it, the area was crazing.

 

[DDW]

Of course Awlgrip can be repaired, the question should be, can it be repaired to your satisfaction? A light color and don't look to close, or having the benefit of a break in the paint (corner or simulated seam) and you can get away with it to most people's satisfaction. Dark color in the middle of a large panel, most people are going to be able to see it. Maybe not the day after the painter leaves, but the next year for sure.

I had a section of the boot stripe repaired, it is Flag Blue. It was repaired by the Awlgrip factory trainer - the guy that trains customers on how to spray it. The blend line looked pretty good the first year (though I can certainly see it). The second year anybody could pick it out. Not horrible, but visible. The trouble with Awlgrip is it cannot be buffed and polished back to its original as sprayed surface condition. Some LPU paints can, in fact the best possible surface is sprayed, then color sanded, then polished, eliminating all orange peel and overspray. Also to correct any dust, runs, or curtains.

If I was the OP, intending to keep the boat for 15 years, I'd paint the topsides, should last 15 years with little care. You won't get that from gelcoat. The deck/superstructure is another matter, due to the expense of doing it right.

 

[sean9c]

If your hull is Awlcraft, that's a different animal, Awlcraft is an acrylic urethane and it pretty easily repairable and you can buff and wax it. A lot of auto paint is acrylic urethane.

I don't get paid for my boat work, but I will stack what I am willing to tackle (including repairing Snow White Awlgrip) up against any "professional" you care to point out, EXCEPT as you correctly point out dark paints. I was unwilling to risk my red hull's Awlcraft paint job on ME trying to repair it. The manufacturer says don't buff it, but when the option is that or a whole new hull paint job, I was willing to let the guy who did the million-dollar paint job on the 100-foot long schooner Columbia have a go at it. Over a year ago, I stood dumbfounded as he went over a two by two foot section of primed hull with top coat and even further amazed as he blended it and the clear coat seamlessly in. Apparently sometime before I bought the boat somebody repaired the area with some paint with a very close color match, but five years after I bought it, the area was crazing.

 

[sbman]

There are a lot of good recommendations in this thread.

What I'll add is that the prep work for a proper paint job, following typical paint manufacturer's instructions is a very, very large amount of manual labor, and it requires a certain level of skill for the laborer.

On my boat, doing a DIY paint job, and working to the best standard I'm able to do, painting one side of the hull from the waterline to the rub rail (42' motor yacht) has involved:

• Sand gelcoat for adhesion for all upcoming processes, reveal and identify defects (2-3 days)
• Remove hardware and thru hulls (at least 1 day)
• Grind out cracks, dings, divots, any old thru hulls to be covered over (1-2 days work)
• Fiberglass/resin applied to anything deeper than 1/8" (at least 1 days work)
• Fairing applied to all repaired areas. Requires 2-3 rounds of fill/sand to get to the final profile, blended into the hull to get a fair surface
• Fairing sanded smooth, final profile achieved (all the filling/sanding was around 80 hours work)
• Apply high build primer, three coats (can take up to three days)
• Long board sanding of the entire hull side. At least 2 weeks of manual labor
• Apply finish primer, three coats (can take up to three days)
• Final sand primer to smooth (2 days work)
• Apply top coat, three coats, sanding in between coats (minimum of three days)

This comes out to around 200-250 hours of labor. PER SIDE. That's nothing to do with the top sides. At $85 per hour that would be over $20K of labor per side. I'm sure a professional can work more quickly, but it's still a huge amount of work.

During this whole process you need a place to work. If working in the winter, you need to be indoors with climate control for a lot of the processes.

$15K to paint the hull sides, if the prep work is done properly is a great deal!

 

[Comodave]

There are a lot of good recommendations in this thread.

What I'll add is that the prep work for a proper paint job, following typical paint manufacturer's instructions is a very, very large amount of manual labor, and it requires a certain level of skill for the laborer.

On my boat, doing a DIY paint job, and working to the best standard I'm able to do, painting one side of the hull from the waterline to the rub rail (42' motor yacht) has involved:

• Sand gelcoat for adhesion for all upcoming processes, reveal and identify defects (2-3 days)
• Remove hardware and thru hulls (at least 1 day)
• Grind out cracks, dings, divots, any old thru hulls to be covered over (1-2 days work)
• Fiberglass/resin applied to anything deeper than 1/8" (at least 1 days work)
• Fairing applied to all repaired areas. Requires 2-3 rounds of fill/sand to get to the final profile, blended into the hull to get a fair surface
• Fairing sanded smooth, final profile achieved (all the filling/sanding was around 80 hours work)
• Apply high build primer, three coats (can take up to three days)
• Long board sanding of the entire hull side. At least 2 weeks of manual labor
• Apply finish primer, three coats (can take up to three days)
• Final sand primer to smooth (2 days work)
• Apply top coat, three coats, sanding in between coats (minimum of three days)

This comes out to around 200-250 hours of labor. PER SIDE. That's nothing to do with the top sides. At $85 per hour that would be over $20K of labor per side. I'm sure a professional can work more quickly, but it's still a huge amount of work.

During this whole process you need a place to work. If working in the winter, you need to be indoors with climate control for a lot of the processes.

$15K to paint the hull sides, if the prep work is done properly is a great deal!

We painted our hull and sundeck surround a couple of years ago. I didn’t keep track of our hours but we spent at least that many hours on each side. We worked all winter and sprayed it in June. It looks incredible now. I figure that we spent around $4K including paying our painter to spray it all. He said he would have charged at least $25K if he had done all the work. We did it all indoors in a non heated barn. We did all the grinding when it was cold and then did the glass work when it reached 45 degrees in the spring. Had to wait til June that year for the barn to warm up enough. There were 3 other boats still in the barn when we sprayed so I had to cover them completely with plastic so overspray wouldn’t get on them. It was a huge job and hard work but not rocket science and fairly simple.

 

[koliver]

My boat is 40 years old. I have owned it for 26. The quality of the original gelcoat finish was good on the hull, but I have seen much better finishes that that on the house. Over the years I have struggled with whether to do anything and if so, what. over 10, less than 15 yrs ago I had a waxing crew attack the house. Part of the bulwarks, across the stern, responded so poorly that I had it painted. I didn't much like the outcome, so went no further.
Last year I attacked the transom with paint. There was a lot of staining, from the SS davit attachment and a through the transom fitting, that I had tried several remedies, none of which were satisfactory. This time I liked the result.
At haulout time in June of this year, I started on the bow. My hull finish looks like wooden strakes, so I started with the lowest 3, that swoop down and end in the boot stripe. When those were done, the colour of the new paint and the old gelcoat was very close as I had cleaned with toilet bowl cleaner earlier the same day.
When I arrived back at Saltspring (from Vancouver) I had crossed the North Arm and the Main arm of the Fraser river, and the yellow moustache was strongly present on the gelcoat where I hadn't painted, so I continued on.
My hours painting, to do the rest of the hull, were spread over the next two weeks, but working 3 to 4 hours a day, on 5 to 7 separate days, the job was done. That included a light wetsanding and brush painting.
On a 40 yr old boat, I was not trying to increase its value on resale, as I don't intend selling, just trying to improve the appearance enough so I am not constantly embarrassed by the yellow stain on the bows.
Since painting, I have been complimented many times on the boat's overall appearance. I excuse it's non-professional look by telling folks that they shouldn't stand too close.. At first I said it was a 50' paint job, but I have had folks chide me for that, saying it is still good at 5'. I know where to find flaws, but they will be easily remedied when I get back to the shelter.
For a few hours work and 2 quarts of Petit Easypoxy enamel, I am happy with the result.
I know that to get a perfect job I would need to spend at least an extra 25 boat bucks, but I could never justify doing that on a 40 yr old boat.
The next part to get painted was the inside of the bulwarks. That had bugged me almost as much as the bow, and it turned out even better. For another 2 cans of paint and another few days working at it only a few hours a day, I now have the whole house and bulwarks done.
All that remains to be painted is the inside of the flybridge, which is in much better condition than the rest was in.

I am not advocating against all the prep work, coats of primer, coats of fancy expensive paints and professional painters that others can afford, just saying you can get most of the way there without.

For some of us, most of the way there is good.

 

[Cigatoo]

My boat is 40 years old. I have owned it for 26. The quality of the original gelcoat finish was good on the hull, but I have seen much better finishes that that on the house. Over the years I have struggled with whether to do anything and if so, what. over 10, less than 15 yrs ago I had a waxing crew attack the house. Part of the bulwarks, across the stern, responded so poorly that I had it painted. I didn't much like the outcome, so went no further.
Last year I attacked the transom with paint. There was a lot of staining, from the SS davit attachment and a through the transom fitting, that I had tried several remedies, none of which were satisfactory. This time I liked the result.
At haulout time in June of this year, I started on the bow. My hull finish looks like wooden strakes, so I started with the lowest 3, that swoop down and end in the boot stripe. When those were done, the colour of the new paint and the old gelcoat was very close as I had cleaned with toilet bowl cleaner earlier the same day.
When I arrived back at Saltspring (from Vancouver) I had crossed the North Arm and the Main arm of the Fraser river, and the yellow moustache was strongly present on the gelcoat where I hadn't painted, so I continued on.
My hours painting, to do the rest of the hull, were spread over the next two weeks, but working 3 to 4 hours a day, on 5 to 7 separate days, the job was done. That included a light wetsanding and brush painting.
On a 40 yr old boat, I was not trying to increase its value on resale, as I don't intend selling, just trying to improve the appearance enough so I am not constantly embarrassed by the yellow stain on the bows.
Since painting, I have been complimented many times on the boat's overall appearance. I excuse it's non-professional look by telling folks that they shouldn't stand too close.. At first I said it was a 50' paint job, but I have had folks chide me for that, saying it is still good at 5'. I know where to find flaws, but they will be easily remedied when I get back to the shelter.
For a few hours work and 2 quarts of Petit Easypoxy enamel, I am happy with the result.
I know that to get a perfect job I would need to spend at least an extra 25 boat bucks, but I could never justify doing that on a 40 yr old boat.
The next part to get painted was the inside of the bulwarks. That had bugged me almost as much as the bow, and it turned out even better. For another 2 cans of paint and another few days working at it only a few hours a day, I now have the whole house and bulwarks done.
All that remains to be painted is the inside of the flybridge, which is in much better condition than the rest was in.

I am not advocating against all the prep work, coats of primer, coats of fancy expensive paints and professional painters that others can afford, just saying you can get most of the way there without.

For some of us, most of the way there is good.

I couldn’t agree more. I painted the exterior of the flybridge last spring. Roll and tip. My first time with ez poxy. Most think that it looks great. To me it’s good to 5 feet. Like Koliver I know where the skeletons are. Another coat this winter (boat is stored inside) will get it pretty darn good. You can make ez poxy look like a spray job once you get the hang of the thinning and painting process. With a good washing to remove wax and light sanding for prep you are good to go. It is very forgiving and the price is right. A quart goes a long way.

 

[rgano]

Once you paint the hull, you will someday see the yellow water stains return, BUT the recoating was always much easier for me than the first go-round.

 

[Pau Hana]

I have done this too. I don't know any 10 year warranties on wraps. I regularly get 5 year warranties on our vehicles. But boats are different. A wrap wont last that long in the sun. And don't even think of trying it get it off after 10 years; it will be near impossible. If you get your boat wrapped, plan on it lasting five years, then strip it off and do it again (or sell the boat). The 3 year old wrap on my boat is already starting to peel and get sun damaged in some areas. Mind you it's holding up pretty well, but I m planning on peeling it off in another 2 years or so.

Dunno- our wrap job is in year 4 and looking excellent with no delam whatsoever. There are a couple of dings, but that is user error.

I expect another 4-6 years easily.