Too big or too small?

[Joe Floatin Bobby]

My wife is certain she needs a boat 50ish feet or longer to be comfortable because of her physical ailments. I don’t feel comfortable jumping to that size from the 25’ boats I’ve operated.

I get it. She wants to be comfortable if she’s going to be going on cruises of several months. She has the spirit and desire to do the long-range cruising. But she just can’t see being able to do what she needs to do on a smaller boat (under 48’ minimum) for any length of time.

Realistically, most of the time I will be pretty much be wearing all the hats. Seaman, cleaner, chef, mechanic and so on.
I know I can single-hand and maintain a smaller boat.

I’m in pretty good health for 74. But not as spry as I was a few years ago.
I’m fine with getting some training on operating a larger boat. But
I don’t want to depend on a captain or crew every time I untie the boat.

So, I’d appreciate any input on how big is too big for one crusty old guy to comfortably handle.

P.S. it’s not really an option to get a smaller one and upgrade over a course of several years. It’s now or never.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard, kid.

 

[Greg QS]

Look into weather or not you will be able to get insurance. The boat I purchased last year (61) was available because the previous buyer could not secure insurance. He came from a 25 to a 61' . The deal fell through. Good for me! So do you diligence and see what you can get insurance for.

 

[koliver]

Lots of boating, but not larger than 25'?
Go up a bit, say 33 or so, That won't tax your level of expertise, and should get you the amenities you will need.
If you are still in good shape physically, (I am your age, so I know how the changes happen after you turn 70) you won't have any problems handling a larger boat if you have lots of experience with smaller boats. You can go as large as you like, but knowing it will be you only, with little to no help from your spouse, you just need to put reasonable expectations in your path.

 

[Iggy]

I went from a 30 to a 40 footer with a single screw! I almost find the 40 footer too big for us and it times for me. Each year I have been getting better and you will too. You might want to consider a twin engine boat for easier docking and tight places.

From a 25 I don't think I would go past a 40' boat. Keep in mind that your beam goes up too. For me I gained 3 feet on the beam. So my living area increased at least 3 times with a fly bridge and upper deck.

 

[sunchaser]

Joe
What is your budget? I could suggest several vessels that would work in your situation but your cost envelope would be helpful.

 

[MYTraveler]

Going from 25' to 38' is a big jump (I watched a friend do it). 38' is big enough that you don't dock by bumping into it, the way you do with a 25' boat. In fact, all aspects of close quarter maneuvering are made more difficult by the inertia inherent in a larger boat. My buddy quickly concluded that he made a mistake by getting such a large boat and regretted his purchase, but he stuck with it and it wasn't long before he could pilot that boat better than he had his smaller boat. He learned to work with inertia and mastered twin engines to the point that he could walk the boat sideways (at least absent current and wind), which he could never do with his single engine boat.

Going from 25' to 50' will entail the same challenges, but not much more. If you are willing to hire a captain for training during your first few months of use (which your insurance company is likely to require in any event), you will master it in no time.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

For two people to have room to relax, cook, sleep, entertain and generally enjoy the boating life you need about 36 to 38 feet, with dual cabins, a big free standing bed and generous walk arounds on each side and a flybridge with stairs, not a ladder..

I have a 36 foot Albin which is nearly perfect. Of course there is always the "inchitis" which makes a slightly larger boat appealing. But so far I have resisted.

In any case do not go larger than 40 feet. Although plenty of people will write in to say they can easily single hand a larger boat I have a hard time believing that. Sure, maybe in ideal conditions but to single hand anything larger than around 40 feet is too much work and risk.

pete

 

[rslifkin]

Going from 25' to 38' is a big jump (I watched a friend do it). 38' is big enough that you don't dock by bumping into it, the way you do with a 25' boat. In fact, all aspects of close quarter maneuvering are made more difficult by the inertia inherent in a larger boat.

Interestingly, I'm of the opposite opinion that larger, heavier boats are easier to dock. That inertia means everything can happen more slowly with more calm, calculated inputs rather than having to throw the boat at the dock and move fast.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I don't think length is the primary criteria to consider. You haven't said what your wife's physical limitations are, perhaps you don't want to in a public forum which is understandable. Have a conversation with her about her concerns. Access on and off the boat? Stairs and ladders? Narrow companionways? Room in the head? Room in the main areas? Room around the bed? These are not necessarily going to be address by boat length.

Once you've set your priorities in this regard move on to single handing. Again length is not the best criteria. I have comfortably handled a 65' single screw, no thruster. My current 42' twin is a handful. Single handing that is not really an option. Define what is important to you to make a boat a single hander.

Don't stop at close quarters maneuvring characteristics. Think about how you will handle 'situations'. Plugged fuel filters for example. Access to the engine room and room to move around and work in the engine room. If your wife can't help you'll have to be able to move quickly and get it done. Plugged fuel filters are only one example.

If your cruising will primarily be marina to marina think about trying to find space for a big boat.

If your cruising will primarily be anchoring out put a lot of thought into the ground tackle.

There are just too many pieces to this puzzle to reduce the solution to length.

Regarding gaining experience a hired training captain will help with that.
Regarding insurance, yes it's going to be a challenge going from 25' to 50' Work with your insurance broker before you purchase. Regarding single handing a big boat with a spouse of limited physical ability. That's going to be a huge effort for you. Consider hiring a crew memeber. Not a captain, but a competent helpful crew memeber willing to help with any and all tasks. Line handling, relief at the wheel, underway engine room checks, cleaning, cooking. Anything and everything. If you're focused on a boat 50' or larger the hired crew can have thier own room. In the interest of privacy perhaps access to that room not through the areas used by you and your wife.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Interestingly, I'm of the opposite opinion that larger, heavier boats are easier to dock. That inertia means everything can happen more slowly with more calm, calculated inputs rather than having to throw the boat at the dock and move fast.

Agree. Generally they are deeper in the water with less windage relative to the underwater portion. They are so much more predictable in tight quarters that smaller, lighter boats with lots of windage.

 

[Hippocampus]

Generally speaking most insurance companies will give you no static making a 10’ jump. But the definitely will I the jump is bigger. If you want to be insured as owner/operator they may request one or more things such as 100h with a licensed captain on board or attaining additional credentials such as a yachtmaster.

I started on small boat and with 2’ itis gradually worked my way up. Never had insurance issues. Recently flipped from Bluewater international on sail to coastal on power. Broker said due to experience a non issue and in fact got lower quotes than some less experienced friends even though their experience was more germane having been on power for years.

Your issue will be you have no experience on larger boats. Also the insurance companies infer how your prior boats were used by size. So unless you crewed or operated friends boats and can prove it they will infer you have no experience with moderate or long range cruising. You need to talk with a broker. You need to decide how your next boat is going to be used.

As regards a mom and pop liveaboard or long duration cruiser the the sweet spot is 40 to 50 feet in a traditional mono hull. For the first couple of years everyone wants to visit but then that tails off. Having two staterooms and two heads is still worth it though. Due to size and period of waves and swells I think 40-50’’ is a good size. Not so big bow is on one wave and stern on another. Not so small that you see green water or a wet boat even in modest conditions.
KISS is key. Complexity increases with size as does expense. My size numbers would vary with the particular design. Some 58’ boats are smaller than some 47’ boats. Need to consider displacement as well.
For your wife rather than focusing only on size would consider how easy it it for her to get around. Single level living on a cat is different the negotiating stairs on a flybridge Tug.

 

[High Wire]

Contact a charter company near you and try them out. Yes you are going to pay a bit but it’s a whole little cheaper than buying the wrong boat.

 

[bowball]

I made the jump to 60’.

Insurance did require training, which I would have done anyway, but it was helped that I had a long history with them on non nautical issues.

Set up properly it wasn’t bad. I would focus on her, and the ability for line handling, etc which implies not me walk around decks, easy access gates, stairs etc. rear docking station, remotes etc. I find it’s docking, tender launching off a boat deck, and sometimes anchoring where the crew member is important. I would optimize for docking and tender launching as the most demanding.

I might suggest renting a trawler in the where they have 36’ to 42’ to 46’ plus range in the PNW, where they have training course options, ability to take a captain with you first, etc. I didn’t do that but I wasn’t making the same type of decision. It might convince both of you to go bigger or smaller.

 

[Mako]

The boat I purchased last year (61) was available because the previous buyer could not secure insurance. He came from a 25 to a 61' .

If paying cash and not overly risk-aversive, then get a liability only policy and learn the boat for a year. I would bet that after that you'd be considered an "experienced" operator and could up the insurance.

 

[DDW]

There is a much bigger difference going from 25 to 35 than from 35 to 50. So if you are going at least to 35, might as well go all the way. Personally I don't get what a 50 has to offer a couple that a 38' doesn't, except the ability to accumulate more unneeded junk, but that may just be me.

 

[O C Diver]

Contact a charter company near you and try them out. Yes you are going to pay a bit but it’s a whole little cheaper than buying the wrong boat.

Even if you have to charter it with a captain, investing thousands to save hundreds of thousands is a smart move. Also, the annual overall operating expense difference between 40 and 50' could be 2 to 4 times as much.

Ted

 

[slowgoesit]

We went from our last last boat, a 36' GB to our current boat, a 50' Beebe Passagemaker.
The 50 is probably THREE TIMES the boat over the 36. As mentioned above, it's not just about length, but beam, complexity, etc.

Our 36' boat weighed 23,000 lbs, all in. Our 50' weighed 87,000 lbs when we departed for Alaska last year. It has about 5 times the interior space as our 36' as well.

My wife and I are equal partners in this endeavor. If it were just me, I would never even consider a boat this size.

 

[ranger58sb]

My wife is certain she needs a boat 50ish feet or longer to be comfortable because of her physical ailments. I don’t feel comfortable jumping to that size from the 25’ boats I’ve operated.

I get it. She wants to be comfortable if she’s going to be going on cruises of several months. She has the spirit and desire to do the long-range cruising. But she just can’t see being able to do what she needs to do on a smaller boat (under 48’ minimum) for any length of time.

I don't think length is the primary criteria to consider. You haven't said what your wife's physical limitations are, perhaps you don't want to in a public forum which is understandable. Have a conversation with her about her concerns. Access on and off the boat? Stairs and ladders? Narrow companionways? Room in the head? Room in the main areas? Room around the bed? These are not necessarily going to be address by boat length.

JFB, maybe the two of you can further break down the requirements to see how she arrives at that 50' number. Number of staterooms? Heads? Flybridge or not? Pilothouse or not? Et cetera...

'Cause she might be right.

And then maybe you can also pick some samples out of yachtworld or wherever that appeal for whatever reason.

'Cause you might find some under 50' that actually have all the basic features she wants.

FWIW, if you expect to be single-handing mostly, even when she's aboard... you'll want to pay attention to other stuff (deck access, etc.)... much more so than overall length.

-Chris

 

[Seevee]

Joe,


First you need to define your mission; coastal cruiser, snowbird, great loop, passagemaker, etc.
Next, you need to define your needs... what's really important and what's not. What makes your wife comfy and safe.

Then define your budget.
Insurance may not be that important to you, perhaps not an issue.
And single handling a 60 footer is doable, but does need some planning and skills (I'll let the guys that currently have bigger boats and single handle them to comment). However, if a 60 footer is twice as hard as my 43, it would be easy. Also, as question: Can your wife run the boat (operate the helm). That would be huge if you need to tend to other chores like maintenance, food, potty break, etc., while underway.



Personally, I'd have no issue with a 60ft boat, but won't fit at my dock, so not an option.

 

[Simi 60]

60 ft and 65,000kg ( 143,000 lb) for us
Just the two of us onboard
Single screw no thrusters.

But we cruise full time and very rarely come into a dock
We can do it, just takes a bit of thought and planning.

Systems on board are no different or any more complex to what a 40 fter would have, on ours, probably less so.
No A/C as an example as it's not needed

If I could build this again I would gladly have her on a 65 ft hull.

 

[Bacchus]

Agree with most others here but strongly suggest only you and yours can answer the big question of how big do you need?

I always suggest those looking start by defining their intended cruising style & locations (and at least a budget range)
Then define Must Haves, Nice to Haves, & Don't Wants
Spouses / crew need to do this independently then compare, combine, compromise. What specific features is she interested in more helpful than what size... there is more to an ideal boat than a length measurement.

With your lists in hand it would then be helpful to attend boat shows, walk docks at marinas and talk to owners enquiring how they use theirs, what they like / dislike would do different if doing it over.

If you haven't experienced that size vessel a Charter w Capt for even a short cruise could answer a lot of questions / uncertainty. Chartering is expensive but not nearly as expensive as a wrong decision / choice.

 

[rslifkin]

Simi brings a good point with size. Sometimes bigger isn't because you need more space, it's so you can carry more weight in stuff, larger tanks, fit more solar, etc. to be more self sufficient. How much self sufficiency is needed really depends on what kind of cruising you intend to do.



Self-sufficiency wise, our 38 footer is fine for 5 - 7 days comfortably with 2 of us and the dog. Beyond that, we need water, although that could be carried (somewhat inconveniently) by dinghy if stopping somewhere to fill the tank isn't practical. And the holding tank is good for about 10 days comfortably.

 

[MYTraveler]

Interestingly, I'm of the opposite opinion that larger, heavier boats are easier to dock. That inertia means everything can happen more slowly with more calm, calculated inputs rather than having to throw the boat at the dock and move fast.

I don't disagree. The point I was trying to make is that the inertia takes some getting used to, especially for someone who is used to being able to bump into a dock with a 25 foot boat.

 

[SeaDogAK]

Contact a charter company near you and try them out. Yes you are going to pay a bit but it’s a whole little cheaper than buying the wrong boat.

This. If you charter a smaller boat - thirty-something, or 40’, maybe your wife will decide she could live with a smaller boat. And you’ll be building experience with a bigger boat.

I went from a 28’ to a 37’ to a 49’ boat. Each was a big jump.

 

[Nick14]

FWIW, it's a highly personal choice, based on your personal situation, skills, and circumstances. For some people 30 ft is impossibly too big and more boat than they need. For others 60 ft is totally manageable and maybe even too small.

It depends on so many things. Your physical condition, your boating skills, your usage, and your budget. If you're going to be a dock queen most of the time, then sure, go for the biggest boat you can afford if you'll rarely be leaving the dock. If you're going to be actively cruising and docking, perhaps essentially single-handed, then you probably want to try out a 50 footer, several times, before you buy one.

How a boat feels and what you think varies tremendously between lounging around on one tied up securely in a slip, vs. trying to maneuver it into a tight slip yourself, with adverse winds and currents throwing you curves.

From my own personal experiences (53 years of messing around with boats), I personally think jumping from 25 to 50 feet would be insane. I'm sure for others it would be child's play. Your insurance companies might have similarly skeptical views. You might be able to handle a 50 footer now, but at 74, how will you age into it as the realities of arthritis and other aging become more apparent?

Again just from my own personal experiences, I found going from 25 ft (and at that point over 25 years of boating experience) to 34 ft to be a stretch that required lots of practice and a learning curve. A jump from there to 42 ft was another stretch requiring practice and a learning curve.

For me the biggest challenge is close quarters docking and maneuvering. Anyone can take the helm of a boat in wide open, calm water where there's not much to hit. But threading your way down a narrow fairway, with lots of sharp things and expensive boats on both sides, with wind and current flaring up at the most inopportune times, is a whole different situation than sitting quietly at the dock having a drink.

Like most things in life, money can make things much easier. If you have enough of it, you could pay for pretty much anything the boat would need - maintenance, general care, a crew, even a captain.

Overall, I think @Portage_Bay had some great thoughts and advice in his post. If you can figure out the specific reasons, needs, and concerns your wife has in her thinking you need a 50+ foot boat, you might find that it's possible to address them with something smaller and easier to handle (and on the budget). People cross oceans and live aboard boats smaller than 50 ft.

Good luck!

 

[Mako]

Wow what an incredible problem to have… a wife who wants a bigger boat!

 

[Nick14]

Wow what an incredible problem to have… a wife who wants a bigger boat!

:lol:

You're absolutely right! What a helluva problem we all wish we had!

 

[Art]

I read most of first page and little of the second. I believe I may understand your and your wife's situation. We're in our 70's too

Wonder what-for / where / how / why you are actually going to use your "larger than before" boat?? As a guess... in favor of wife's conditions [and your ease of doing it all - at 74 yrs age]... a flat boat deck with little to no steps, roomy head and wide open master stateroom as well as a easy to use galley would be best.

Let us learn your what-for / where / how / why boat usage items. Additional suggestions of the boat for you you two may come forth.

Good Luck!

 

[rslifkin]

I read most of first page and little of the second. I believe I may understand your and your wife's situation. We're in our 70's too

Wonder what-for / where / how / why you are actually going to use your "larger than before" boat?? As a guess... in favor of wife's conditions [and your ease of doing it all - at 74 yrs age]... a flat boat deck with little to no steps, roomy head and wide open master stateroom as well as a easy to use galley would be best.

Let us learn your what-for / where / how / why boat usage items. Additional suggestions of the boat for you you two may come forth.

Good Luck!

Thinking about it, a larger boat can give more choices for layout while still having enough space. You can go for a layout that's easier to move around but sacrifices usable space (relative to its size), but go bigger overall so you still have enough space.