ban may be keeping some from entering marine industry

[Benthic2]

I hate to seem unsympathetic......but your son should have stopped smoking, shaved his head, and applied in a few weeks. He had to know he'd be tested, and he should have known he'd fail.

 

[Bob Cofer]

Testing can be performed on any hair. Typically collected from three locations, not just the scalp. The test can be refused which results in non compliance and can cause termination.

 

[sunchaser]

Or a teacher, lawyer, judge, politician, accountant, architect, software designer; physicist.....

Yeah, you can add those but where I've lived those professions can be subject to testing regimens as well. Depends on the company. In most areas the big area for busting people is airport security. Countless politicians have been nabbed over the years by Fido and swabs. Judges, especially those elected, are highly visible as they are drug law enforcers.

I remain puzzled as to why people jeopardize their life, family and careers by skirting the laws. I have told my kids and grandkids for years get educated, get a good job, stay clean and you'll be happily employed and out of trouble.

 

[boomerang]

Yeah, you can add those but where I've lived those professions can be subject to testing regimens as well. Depends on the company. In most areas the big area for busting people is airport security. Countless politicians have been nabbed over the years by Fido and swabs. Judges, especially those elected, are highly visible as they are drug law enforcers.

I remain puzzled as to why people jeopardize their life, family and careers by skirting the laws. I have told my kids and grandkids for years get educated, get a good job, stay clean and you'll be happily employed and out of trouble.

Yeah well I'm glad you never made any mistakes or used poor judgement when you were a kid & have always lead a squeeky-clean life. The OP's son made a dumb mistake. He'll learn from it & move on like all of us normal folks have. Nobody's disputing the fact that one has to follow workplace rules. We're just voicing our dislike of (another) questionable law.

 

[siestakey]

I sold my Construction company before many states started legalizing pot. Our Insurance company did random drug testing. If someone was caught with anything in there system we had to either fire them or give them 30 days off and on second offense 90 days but no 3 chance. Now if they were caught with booze in them they had to take a online counselling course. This was crazy but we had to because of the insurance

 

[sunchaser]

We're just voicing our dislike of (another) questionable law.

Questionable? Only to those who've not been involved in the aftermath of flouting drug and alcohol laws. I've been directly involved, both as accident survivor and manager when deaths and severe tragedy occurred due to drugs and alcohol.

Sorry, but choosing to intentionally break the law and surviving does make the law questionable. It only makes one lucky.

 

[JLD]

+1. Thank you.

Just because you don't like the law/rules doesn't mean you can break them as long as you have some emotional argument. I may or may not agree with you, but it doesn't matter. If you don't like the law, get it changed. Period.

People trying to change the law is what is part of the short term problem. About 2/3's of Americans believe that marijuana should be legal and that is why we have had changes in state laws to allow for recreational use of marijuana. On the federal level, legalization is stymied, to a large part, by special interest groups who see billions of dollars at stake.

The Federal scheduling of marijuana goes back to the 60's and 70's. Scientific and medical evidence on the use of marijuana, since then, has drastically changed.

The kicker to me is that folks have been fired from jobs for the use of legal medical marijuana. Apparently, some companies would rather their employees take prescription opioids, as what could go wrong with opioid use?

I never had an interest in smoking pot, and although my job does not have drug testing, it is still illegal, and I don't (have never) used it. However, just like with alcohol use, I don't have a problem with other folks using it in a safe, responsible manner. I figure, their body, their descision.

Jim

 

[Baker]

I do wonder, however, what is the real difference between pot and alcohol use.
Jim

The difference:

A person high on weed will be stopped at a green light.
A person drunk on alcohol will be blasting through a red light.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I hate to seem unsympathetic......but your son should have stopped smoking, shaved his head, and applied in a few weeks. He had to know he'd be tested, and he should have known he'd fail.

I agree and he was a dumba$$! He was not a happy camper, but as I told him "You can't fix stupid! Son you were stupid. I hope he learns from it. I am totally NOT sympathetic at all....

 

[foggysail]

The difference:

A person high on weed will be stopped at a green light.
A person drunk on alcohol will be blasting through a red light.

Do you have any statistics to back that up?

 

[boomerang]

I am the "other half" of Boomerang and I am a teacher. I have been for 30 years. Just FYI, in the states where I have taught (NJ, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina) teachers do have to pass drug tests and are subjected to random drug tests/drug searches. And we are held to the high standard of behavior...not just drug and alcohol use. If I am arrested for any reason or charges are brought against me for any reason (domestic dispute, possession of a weapon, delinquent bills, driving under the influence, public nuisance, etc.) I lose my teaching license and thus my career. Period. No questions asked. So I toe the line and do not engage in ANY activity that will jeopardize doing what I love.

~Liz

 

[Woodland Hills]

I guess the simple question is, "Would you want your son working for someone (captain) who tested positive for drugs". Commercial fishing is dangerous enough without the guy working next to you being high.

Ted

Agreed, but current testing only tells if you smoked pot in the last week or so. Not if you are high, right now, which is what all the fuss is about. Use on your day off in any of the Pacific coastal states is not a crime. How many high functioning alcoholics are out there who come to work sober, but spend their time off drinking, in the fishing industry? What's the difference?

 

[MurrayM]

Is there another democracy with harsher policies/laws towards pot than the USA?

Didn't these policies begin with the demonization of all things hemp by cotton growers in the southern US? (*edit*...and by Dupont after the invention of nylon).

I think pot scares those who hold power. Why? Because pot allows one to perceive things from new angles, to question the way you understand and interpret the world even when you aren't high. Authoritarians don't want people to understand intrinsically that it's okay to question things, or to be open to alternative views.

(Been over 30 years since I've had a toke)

 

[Woodland Hills]

Yup, welcome to the real world. Bob what you have stated is pretty much the case throughout industry. Especially when mobile equipment, rotating machinery, surgeons, pilots etc are the employees.

No problem, if you want to use drugs pick a vocation where toking is OK. Say being a pot grower, travel agent or house painter. The list is small.

Or, any self employed entrepreneurial job. The sort where you can sell the business eventually so you can retire early and buy a cool boat. That sort non-professional career........

If you own the company, you don't have to piss in any bottles.

 

[foggysail]

If being an entrepreneur was so great, everybody would be one. Sure, risks vs rewards may or may not be great but hard work is almost a sure thing.

 

[OldDan1943]

The key phrase is, "violation of work place rules."
Of course the "rules" need to be defined elsewhere.
Then there are vaguely defined things such as the ever famous "morals clause". Defining that would take a book.

 

[Woodland Hills]

If being an entrepreneur was so great, everybody would be one. Sure, risks vs rewards may or may not be great but hard work is almost a sure thing.

If one didn't want to really labor and wanted more security, you could always be a judge or an elected politician at any level of the judiciary or government. They aren't subject to drug or alcohol testing.

As a society we have apparently decided that it is more important that the barista who made us coffee be drug and alcohol free than our Senators or Chief Justices. In other words, you can make laws while stoned and drunk, but not cappachinos.

 

[CaptRonn]

Is there another democracy with harsher policies/laws towards pot than the USA?

Singapore

Possession or consumption of cannabis in Singapore can result in a maximum of 10 years in prison, with a possible fine of S$20,000, as well as caning,under the Misuse of Drugs Act. Trafficking, import or export of more than 500 grams may result in the death penalty.

Malaysia

Cannabis in Malaysia is illegal. Malaysian legislation provides for a mandatory death penalty for convicted drug traffickers. Individuals arrested in possession of 200 grams (seven ounces) of marijuana are presumed by law to be trafficking in drugs. Individuals arrested in possession of 50 grams (1,5 ounces) or less will be sentenced to imprisonment up to 10 years.

Taiwan

Cannabis in Taiwan is illegal. Cannabis is listed as a category 2 narcotic by Narcotics Hazard Prevention Act in the ROC. Possession of a category 2 drug can result in up to three years of imprisonment; planting or trafficking can result in at least seven years of imprisonment.

Japan

Cannabis in Japan has been illegal since 1948. Use and possession are punishable by up to five years imprisonment and a fine. Cultivation, sale, and transport are punishable by up to 7 to 10 years imprisonment and a fine.

 

[psneeld]

Believe it is illegal in the Bahamas too...

 

[sunchaser]

Or, any self employed entrepreneurial job. The sort where you can sell the business eventually so you can retire early and buy a cool boat. That sort non-professional career........

If you own the company, you don't have to piss in any bottles.

Twenty two years or so ago the President of Northwest Airlines was busted while going through airport security. Yes, he got sacked. But Woodland, you are right there are places of job refuge where being a doper do indeed work out.


BTW, lots of Americans have been incarcerated in Mexico for carrying weed and candy. As noted above, the list is very long for counties that are tough on drugs. For sure stay clean in China.

 

[Benthic2]

Agreed, but current testing only tells if you smoked pot in the last week or so. Not if you are high, right now, which is what all the fuss is about. Use on your day off in any of the Pacific coastal states is not a crime. How many high functioning alcoholics are out there who come to work sober, but spend their time off drinking, in the fishing industry? What's the difference?

"all the fuss" is about breaking the law. The employer in this case was federal government, who, in no uncertain terms, says pot is illegal. Getting drunk is not illegal, getting stoned is.

as for it "not being a crime"....if you are a Federal Law Enforcement Officer, it is a crime. For example, if you're on your boat and get boarded by the Coast Guard, and are in possession of pot, you're in trouble.

 

[78puget-trawler]

"I think pot scares those who hold power. Why? Because pot allows one to perceive things from new angles, to question the way you understand and interpret the world even when you aren't high. Authoritarians don't want people to understand intrinsically that it's okay to question things, or to be open to alternative views." Love it. This is the sophisticated way of saying what we used to say as dumba** teens smoking weed in the 60's. Goes like this, "wow man, I am soooo much smarter when I'm high man". "Yeah man, me too, its like wow man, I cant believe how smart we are". LOL. Its called dope for a reason.

 

[foggysail]

If one didn't want to really labor and wanted more security, you could always be a judge or an elected politician at any level of the judiciary or government. They aren't subject to drug or alcohol testing.

As a society we have apparently decided that it is more important that the barista who made us coffee be drug and alcohol free than our Senators or Chief Justices. In other words, you can make laws while stoned and drunk, but not cappachinos.

We started our business 25 years ago and have grown it over the many years. I fully understand the meanings of hard work and risk. Now as to becoming a judge..... or an elected politician, you believe that is a personal choice, something easy to become? Just because one would like to be does not mean you will be.

 

[Woodland Hills]

"all the fuss" is about breaking the law. The employer in this case was federal government, who, in no uncertain terms, says pot is illegal. Getting drunk is not illegal, getting stoned is.

as for it "not being a crime"....if you are a Federal Law Enforcement Officer, it is a crime. For example, if you're on your boat and get boarded by the Coast Guard, and are in possession of pot, you're in trouble.

What if an employee lives in a dry county and works in a wet one? Should she be fired if she tests positive for drinking beer over the weekend, but comes to work sober? After all it is a crime to consume alcohol where she lives and evidently it is the employers job to enforce the law and to choose which laws they enforce (state, local, federal).

 

[Woodland Hills]

We started our business 25 years ago and have grown it over the many years. I fully understand the meanings of hard work and risk. Now as to becoming a judge..... or an elected politician, you believe that is a personal choice, something easy to become? Just because one would like to be does not mean you will be.

Or one could become an attorney or social worker: the only people involved in our criminal justice system who have to take drug tests are jailers and prisoners. In our Civil justice system I don't think anyone does.

BTW, it is not hard to become a judge, most judicial elections at the county level are low turnout affairs with very low voter knowledge of the candidates. A few thousand for lawn signs and a couple of speeches to local Kiwanis or Rotary and you are in. Being a Justice of the Peace is even easier and cheaper, Tax assessor or water board is also a cheap way into power.

 

[Art]

This is not my first day on the beach... so to say... regarding much about drugs and alcohol.

There should be [must be able to be] a way devised by medical experts wherein the "level" of THC in a person's system could be authoritatively rated to determine if the THC still has any effect on that person's motor and/or brain responses regarding their general condition.

Such a test may begin with blood or urine. Then, if THC is found present, instead of immediately firing the person the next level of testing [such as hair testing] may be what is used to determine if the THC is at a level continuing to have an actual effect on that person.

Just for S&G.... let's say that as long as 12 hours have elapsed since marijuana was ingested [by inhale, eating or other means] that the user is again 100% functional. Then that person might get a cautionary check next to their name... but to fire them at that time is nuts!

Regarding Alcohol: A person who heavily abuses alcohol intake, yet still maintains on time working schedule, although testing no alcohol in their system may be really dangerous on a job due to tiredness, lethargy and other alcohol over use factors.

Opiates and amphetamines are two other factors regarding diminished personal capabilities.

Main thing is for people to do their best to be cognizant and healthy as possible when in any working conditions. Some of the laws we all need to interact with are simply not always safe or fair.

Such as the age-old statement: "Life Ain't Fair"! We must do the best we can!!

 

[Benthic2]

What if an employee lives in a dry county and works in a wet one? Should she be fired if she tests positive for drinking beer over the weekend, but comes to work sober? After all it is a crime to consume alcohol where she lives and evidently it is the employers job to enforce the law and to choose which laws they enforce (state, local, federal).

First of all, in a dry county ( or town ) it is NOT a crime to posess or consume alcohol...it is a crime to SELL alcohol...big difference.

Secondly, in this case we are talking jobs that require certification from the USCG...and YES, it MOST CERTAINLY IS their job to enforce the law.

And as for private employers doing a drug check....employers can require anything they want as long as its not based on gender, sexual preference, religion and a few other protected classes. Like they can require a college degree, or previous experience, an outgoing personality, or a certain dress code.

 

[foggysail]

Or one could become an attorney or social worker: the only people involved in our criminal justice system who have to take drug tests are jailers and prisoners. In our Civil justice system I don't think anyone does.

BTW, it is not hard to become a judge, most judicial elections at the county level are low turnout affairs with very low voter knowledge of the candidates. A few thousand for lawn signs and a couple of speeches to local Kiwanis or Rotary and you are in. Being a Justice of the Peace is even easier and cheaper, Tax assessor or water board is also a cheap way into power.

Elected judges! I am not sure that is a good idea BUT I strongly believe they should not be appointed for life as they are here in Massachusetts.

As to drug tests, you may be right, I just don’t know

 

[BandB]

As a rather large private employer, we do not test except for cause. However, we have zero tolerance toward use of alcohol or marijuana while on the job or within 10 hours before. As a practical matter our pot testing is by smell. (Really such a distinctive smell that most recognize and if you haven't thoroughly bathed and put on clean clothes it's there. In fact, it's also there if you smoked weed in your car, which is stupid). If we tested for pot, we'd eliminate a huge percentage of our applicants since most of our employees are young. I knew one large retailer that gave pre-employment polygraphs and asked if one had ever used any illegal drug. Over 50% never showed up for it, having been warned, and over 50% still flunked. They had the worst workforce in retail.

I only care about work performance. If they over indulge, it's likely not to be up to standards. However, as an employer, I don't care what they did last month or last week or yesterday on their day off.

However, when you take a job, you know the employer's rules. I would have terribly hated to fire your son, but would have done so. I'd terminate boat crew that tested positive as I have no choice. I think it's insane that athletes are suspended over pot testing. However, if you're making millions and know you're subject to testing and still fail, you have a problem. I strongly support medical marijuana but recognize there are jobs it disqualifies you from. There are jobs that many other prescription drugs do the same.

I do hate your son had to learn a lesson the hard way and I hope he understands he was wrong. The law may also be but that doesn't change his culpability.

 

[O C Diver]

I waiting to see if the states where pot is decriminalized / legalized see an increase in traffic accidents and deaths with high drivers. What I'm wondering is, when it's legal and socially acceptable, do people end up smoking more in locations that require driving home at some point. Clearly it's been a problem with alcohol since the repeal of prohibition. Will impaired accident numbers spike with legalized use?

Ted