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72' Alloy trawler is back in the market

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If someone interrested by details

of the structure and why I wrote very well built hull .
Below some example from boat built in Nederland from famous or well know boatyard :
First junction between frame and beam as you can see no bracket or just small flat bar. Note spacing of the frame around 450 mm to 500 mm (it was the standard)
 

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Now jonction from tank plating to frame

As you can see not bracket, no curve between frame and top of the tanks or/and from "varangues" (sorry don't know the terme in English ?) and the front of the tank.
Note I don't criticize this choice ( I already design and built near ( I had more bracket !) the same structure and built two boat. But it is only to show the difference when I wrote "very well built" or " structure designed by Veritas" it means hundred of more bracket and stiffeners added and it is a cost .
 

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Also stiffener on the bulkward

One stiffener or more or even no one.
 

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Now you can see the

difference, all this bracket means less stress in the welding at the junction, more inertia on the bulwark, better repartitions of the "stress" at this junction.
I had an aluminum hull built in very well renowned boatyard and when navigate in the "British" Chanel with wind against current when we hit the wave all the plating "trembling " from the bow to the transom "blom, blom, blom:eek: " and later we had two welding who crack on the deck...


First two photo bracket between "varangue" and tanks (of course in the tank, front of the bracket you have a bulkhead .
Third photo ( turn it 90 left :facepalm:) type of junction between frame and beam
Fourth photo junction of frame and top of the tank (of course at the same place than the inside bulkhead)
5 example of stiffener everywhere
6 example of welding.
The total aluminium weight it is around 20000 kgs
In France 2 year ago to built a hull ( basic one no curve, near no stiffener at all Meta type "stongall" the cost per kg was around 43€ per kgs.
AND with "basic" 5083 or 5086 the "sealium" used in the Pacific is ...25% more expansive than the 5083 or 5083. We could arrive at 46 € ttc per kg ?
With an another "trawler" addict we contacted boatyard outside CE for cheaper price for 7500 kgs they replied 185000€ without taxe:nonono::mad:


Not again it is not for criticize the simplest way used to built by some ( if not all ) boatyard, only to show what it means "structure designed by VERITAS" and what I mind when I wrote "very well built hull".
 

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Unfortunately :
- our is not yet sold :)
- the "smaller one" is gone, the owner got a better offer ...
No more "hurry" for sale the actual.
We will make some photo of some area below wl line where we remove paint to do some ultrasonic check always 7.90mm/7.85mm it is normal thickness start from 8 mm plate they grinding/sanding their to do the painting process.
 
Some ultra sonic

On starboard.
Oups when send became "upside down " :) Of course the thickness is not 0.8 but 8.0 :)
 

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Another

in bowthruster tube, on the side, around the area of the stainless steel stab Vetus, ( the 15.7 mm is for the plate of the stab.)Ok the ultra sonic material is the very basic one but accurate enough and adjust before on a new 8 mm plate.
 

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Our Vietnamese "baby"

Come back on the market, now she is 31 year old and pass in different ownership who change her a lot...:mad:( huge bowsprit, remove our so convivial table ( 2mx1m able to receive lot of friend), cut cabin in two cabin, destroy a nice forward toilette, built an ugly/heavy ( but useful ) deck salon, black paint hull ( 4em owner) after blue deck ( second owner) ...etc

We got an proposition from the actual owner ... may be it could be an interesting choice for us to go smaller and use her more like a motor sailor.
A colleague will go to visit her ( because some "heart trouble" during the last 2 week don't allow me to traveling for the moment:blush:


All that to say if someone interested by our trawler : offer are welcome !!
Until this opportunity is gone ...again :nonono:


Oaristys 1993 Hebe Haven 1993
Oaristys Hebe Haven 2009
Oaristys 2013
Oaristys 2024
 

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This maybe rude. If so I apologize. It looks like a well maintained, thoughtfully outfitted and beautiful boat. I would think it would sell very quickly at a good price for the seller. Why do you think that hasn’t happened? If I was in your area I’d give serious thought to buying her. Have you gotten any feedback suggesting why?
 
This maybe rude. If so I apologize. It looks like a well maintained, thoughtfully outfitted and beautiful boat. I would think it would sell very quickly at a good price for the seller. Why do you think that hasn’t happened? If I was in your area I’d give serious thought to buying her. Have you gotten any feedback suggesting why?
To be honest I really don't understand why she don't sell .
OK she need à paint job and some minor thing.
But she is really like the photo.
First one colleague suggest to me the price is "too low," and People who read advertising thinking : where is the problem" (I have the same réaction when I see a boat far below the " normal" asking price :) )
We made an average price/year/size on all trawler we found on yachtworld (ok It was during the covid) we found 975000€(asking price of course), 2001 year and 19,25m size....At this moment we got an offer at...300000€.Ok we are seller but not at this level :-(. Finally this customer bought à little smaller one , In steel, 17 year older, with engine more than 2 time smaller (6 liter) and maybe 5 to 6 more thousand hour for 400000€.
The second potential buyer came on board took hundred photo, look everywhere, made film (thank to him it is the film of arrangements you can watch) say he is very interrested Phone to us even at night said : don't sale her I am interested, he got problem in his famille (à close parent became seak)and no New until I ask for the film. He wanted something like à trawler and finally bought something totally différent older and bigger Italian motoryacht , but it was in his area, don't need to make 3000nm.
We had also some 'tourist' who came for visit, some came and said : I want put tender lift plate-forme, I want put jaccuzy etc etc and you must decrease the price of the value of what I want fit " :).
Really don't understand,. My friend broker say actually 'small' boat don't sale
Smaller and cheaper than our we can see some 'sale pending' .But he explain the big or very big one still have customer, but not the mid size in our range of price .
Actually we are listed at 595000€, it is half the price of à smaller Selene or à De Alm.(ok they are both in perfect cosmetic condition, not our but half the price !?).
For witch reason she is not already sold ?
The wife of the first potential wanted teck deck, and when I sold (or try :) ) I say honestly what it is good and what need attention, we became friend we this customer ( because we made free after sale service...on the another boat he bought it was is first boat and he needed some help) and his wife said : when we left your boat my husband said : he don't want sale his boat because he said all thing who need attention" When they visit the another one they said nothing concerning all problem, bring them to the restaurant, speak à lot...they sign.
Il am not at all à seller I am à former seamen :)
For the second one, he want make lot of change because he live in very cold place (rigide structure on the fly, more insulation, heater...) he had problem in his family and also first he thinking he could bring the boat by canal to the Baltic after I said to him it was not possible ( or move to Black sea, Danube, Main Rhin etc...) he change.
If I was à seller I will say that after he paid :)
 
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Still nobody interested by our trawler ?
Because we must make soon ( even ...must be done ...last week ) decision, confirm or not the buy of our former Vietnamese's baby.
Open to all (reasonable) offer ...
 

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For the moment the last offer we got was not "reasonable " for us 325000 :-(.
If nobody interested it seams we will miss the opportunity to buy back (again !:) ) our Vietnamese baby
 
This maybe rude. If so I apologize. It looks like a well maintained, thoughtfully outfitted and beautiful boat. I would think it would sell very quickly at a good price for the seller. Why do you think that hasn’t happened? If I was in your area I’d give serious thought to buying her. Have you gotten any feedback suggesting why?
I love aluminum! I wish more trawlers were made from Aluminum. What I have found is that most aluminum trawler types that are made from aluminum are also made for speed (due to light weight of aluminum). That means huge engines, which then translates to huge fuel bills. I don't want to pay the fuel bill for 1400hp and I don't want to harm these big engines by running them at a low rpm if these engines are not electronically fuel injected. If these engines are electronically fuel injected, I would definitely state that in the add along with the fuel burn at trawler speeds. My two cents....
 
This C12 are electronically injecter.
But not only aluminium "trawler" was made for speed over the hull speed : Grand Banks,Swift, Nordic Tug, Rhea, Fleming, Adagio...etc All this fiberglass "trawler" have more hp per T than our.
I contacted Cat to rated our 700 hp tp 350 hp ( like the commercial C12)
Their answer was : Why ? Just do at less rpm.
And whe. I asked for potential problem to run at louer rpm, their answer was : no problem !.
Hoppe they know their product :).
Anyway this we we will be on our ...Vietnamiese "baby" to buy back her.
After that our trawler will be "open an offer" for 3 month.
After 3 month, if the trawler will not be sold...we will sold again ( for the third time !!!) our Vietnamiese to à friend who dream on her since 2009.
 
I would add the electronic fuel injection to the add along with fuel burn rates to help sell the boat. The engine is one of the main selling points I look at when buying a boat. What you stated above about contacting Cat and there advice, completely changed my impression of your boat. The icing on the cake would be a low fuel burn around 8 knots. Any idea?
 
We don't check at 8 kts

At 7,50 kts it was 2 liter per nm it is around 1.89 nmpg checked on a crossing of 140 nm

At 9,85 kts it was 3,85 liter per nm it's around 0.983 nmpg checked on a cross of 240nm
 
We don't check at 8 kts

At 7,50 kts it was 2 liter per nm it is around 1.89 nmpg checked on a crossing of 140 nm

At 9,85 kts it was 3,85 liter per nm it's around 0.983 nmpg checked on a cross of 240nm
So 140 nm at 1.89 nmpg (7.5kts) equals 264.6 gallons. 2 liters per nm equals 280 liters or 73.96 gallons total. Im guessing the 73 gallons is the correct total for 140 nm. If so, your burning around 4 gallons (15 liters) an hour for both engines, which is very impressive if my math is right.
 
On 140 nm at 7,5 kts we was only on one engine running at 1100 rpm !!
Fresh bottom paint, and full of equipment, tool, water but remain "only" 3500 liter of diesel in the tank It means we was at an average of 58 T
We fill 5.8 m3 of diesel in Tunisia, now remain around 7m3 and our actual weight around 60 T
We already removed... 1000 kg of...things for example 150 kg for one professionnal MIG welding machin and lot of lot of things who was here ..."Just in case" :)
For reach 8kts on one engine it is 1200 rpm but dont do that long enought to check the consumption.
 
One engine-very interesting. I've been debating a locking mechanism for the shaft for the sole purpose of saving fuel and running one engine at a time to fully load the engine at lower speeds. Did you lock the shaft on the non-running engine, or is your transmission able to circulate water to keep it cool when the shaft spins freely?
 
One engine-very interesting. I've been debating a locking mechanism for the shaft for the sole purpose of saving fuel and running one engine at a time to fully load the engine at lower speeds. Did you lock the shaft on the non-running engine, or is your transmission able to circulate water to keep it cool when the shaft spins freely?
At less you must start the engine each 3 hours for lubrification, ( or switch ps to sb each 3 hour) it is what they say on the documentation.
On our former boat the hurtz don't need this regular start.
 
I'm going to start another thread to see if anyone has experience with Shaft Loc. I've been debating this option for years now.
 
Been often struck by what I think is a bit of disconnect in discussions about hull materials.
Just looking at strength per weight CF prepreg probably is the best. Makes sense for extremely weight sensitive vessels such as foilers, full electric boats or race boats. But can’t see the expense as justified for a cruiser or recreational boat.
Next up would be the various forms of wood epoxy which has been successfully employed in some excellent sport fish and even some very large yachts. But to do it right requires time and skilled laborers so when done poorly has ruin its reputation unfortunately.
Glass dominates, I think, because you can get a good reliable hull at a decent price when done in series.
Then you have Al which when done by a skilled builder is perhaps the best. You can get around corrosion issues and even get it to hold paint. Although it doesn’t have the abrasion resistance of steel it still has good puncture protection being able to stretch some unlike glass or fabrics.
Lastly you have steel. Done with Al for everything but the hull maybe the best for voyaging. Modern coatings and design make it durable and rust free and steel is strong and the most puncture/abrasion resistant.
Cruisng boats still operate in displacement speeds. Hull weight is a relatively small fraction of total displacement. For cruising power boats unless you go with LDL designs you’re not going to get much benefit from the lesser weight of Al once you’ over 20m.
LCs boat is ahead of the curve in many respects. Although not new it seems to make use of many of the insights of LDL design. Think it hits a happy middle point. Not an ultralight but not a heavy full displacement either. Modest beam for length but still enough room and displacement for a liveable interior . Well executed to make advantage of the benefits of Al.
At this point would think about how it’s being marketed and why no success. Would investigate broker feedback before giving up.
 
The différence between steel and aloy for the hull of our former Long-cours 62 was.. +10 T (for an average similar résistance) it is à hudge différence !
15 cm more draft and...15 cm less free board and need at 10 kts 34 % more hp
 
"...
At this point would think about how it’s being marketed and why no success. Would investigate broker feedback before giving up....."
My colleague broker do this job for at less 30 year...
And another broken even them who pass sometime here and d'escribed as " famous broker for trawler" :)
Are not so "famous' Just take one more boat on listing and even don't contact us to get more détail after said : I will ask lot of question to know in détail the boat'...no news after few month even for 'lot of question '
Broker are mainly like agent for house...:)
Now we are on board of our 'Vietnamese baby', we will see. She is like me ...much more older and not in top condition :)
We could even say : in poor condition...
 

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In response to post #57. Think much of what I said is dependent upon displacement per foot of LOA. Also slenderness ratio and Froude number from my limited understanding of hydrodynamics.
As total length increases percentage contribution of hull weight to total weight decreases. This is particularly true for vessels where you want the highest payload for length and usable volume . Cruisers generally want this so designs in the past have beam/length ratios bigger than 1 to 4. In short they are fat compared to length. The traditional long distance recreational trawler which operates at speeds less than 0.8 of hull speed. Here there’s little penalty for heavier hulls be they grp like Nordhavns or Northerns or steel such as Bering or Doggersbank.
But once you are close to or below 1 to 4 you can improve the half angle and slenderness significantly and decrease needed hp while operating at displacement speeds. Even operate above displacement speeds without much penalty if light and fine enough. No question it here Al shines and vacuum infusion or coring or prepreg to decrease hull weight makes a big favorable difference compared to solid glass or steel.
So for your hull steel makes little sense and Al makes great sense. I apologize for thinking more globally. Didn’t mean to imply your hull would be better in steel. Rather pointing out you use different tools for different jobs. Many long distance cruisers still want payload, don’t mind slow boats, want comfort in a seaway and safety from puncture or hard grounding. Once above a LOA of around 60’ if willing to put up with the downsides of heavy displacement Fe does come into the running.
 
Not understand with my poor level in English.
If you ask to increase payload, our former boat with 10t less in hull weight could have 10 t more payload comparez at a similar steel hull for the same final displacement.
Our actual have 12000 allowed " charge utile" + tankage.
If in steel the hull will be probably 18/20 t heavier...
 
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