Wide Ship/Skinny Canal

[Benthic2]

This captain must have nerves of steel!!!

 

[Benthic2]

another angle

The location is the Welland Canal, about 17 miles west of Buffalo, NY. The ships beam is 76 feet and the canal width is 80 feet !!!

 

[Peter B]

The location is the Welland Canal, about 17 miles west of Buffalo, NY. The ships beam is 76 feet and the canal width is 80 feet !!!

We had a bit of a taste of how he must feel, going through some of the locks and tunnels in the UK canals in a narrowboat a few years ago. Great way to holiday though. They are made of steel, as is this ship, and I bet he doesn't have to do the paint touch-ups after the odd bump and scrape.

However, I noticed there does tend to be a kind of natural pressure build-up each side that tends to keep the boat's sides away from the canal side anyway, so it is not only the pilot keeping the ship in the middle.

 

[O C Diver]

Go watch the 1,000' boats go through the lock into lake Lake Superior. They have observation areas so the captains can have a peanut gallery. There are YouTube videos of it.

Ted

 

[John R M]

A Youtube group called Ship Cam has cameras on many locations along waterways, including the St Clair River. The cameras run 24 hours a day and catch the many freighters that ply the waters. Many of those have serious scrape marks from where they hit the walls of the canals they pass through.

 

[Benthic2]

Thanks for the tips. I'll check out those cameras. ( like I need much of an excuse to spend more time on my computer these days !!)

 

[MurrayM]

We had a bit of a taste of how he must feel, going through some of the locks and tunnels in the UK canals in a narrowboat a few years ago. Great way to holiday though. They are made of steel, as is this ship, and I bet he doesn't have to do the paint touch-ups after the odd bump and scrape.

However, I noticed there does tend to be a kind of natural pressure build-up each side that tends to keep the boat's sides away from the canal side anyway, so it is not only the pilot keeping the ship in the middle.

That makes sense...you'd be running through a valley in the pressure waves. Pretty hairy chested nonetheless.

 

[Wayfarer]

Go watch the 1,000' boats go through the lock into lake Lake Superior. They have observation areas so the captains can have a peanut gallery. There are YouTube videos of it.

Ted

You can see the observation area to my port side here, next to the MacArthur Lock. I affectionately like to call it the 'Nerd Pen,' cuz that's where the boat nerds hang out.

Sometimes I pick a spectator at random and pretend I know them from way back when. 'Sheryl!? Sheryl from bed-wetter's camp?! How the hell are you?? You never call anymore! How's that rash?'

A Youtube group called Ship Cam has cameras on many locations along waterways, including the St Clair River. The cameras run 24 hours a day and catch the many freighters that ply the waters. Many of those have serious scrape marks from where they hit the walls of the canals they pass through.

Lock walls, docks, buoys, mailboxes, trash cans...

There are tons and tons of groups on facebook as well. Great Lakes Shipping Channel, Friends of Boatnerd are good ones. There's a particularly rabid following in the Manistee Ship Watch group. Someone posted some succulent drone footage of our transit just the other day:

Thanks for the tips. I'll check out those cameras. ( like I need much of an excuse to spend more time on my computer these days !!)

If you're ever so bored that you couldn't possibly go on, I have some short videos posted here that you might enjoy.

 

[Benthic2]

If you're ever so bored that you couldn't possibly go on, I have some short videos posted here that you might enjoy.[/QUOTE]

I liked those!! Thanks!

 

[kapnd]

However, I noticed there does tend to be a kind of natural pressure build-up each side that tends to keep the boat's sides away from the canal side anyway, so it is not only the pilot keeping the ship in the middle.

Yes, a wide vessel in a narrow canal tends to center itself, at least when adequately under way to create higher pressure along the side.
Blunt barges are amazingly adept that way, all they need is a little forward motion to be self steering.

 

[boatruptcy]

If you're ever so bored that you couldn't possibly go on, I have some short videos posted here that you might enjoy.

That's amazing, what is the setup like for backing in, do you have a full redundant bridge station facing aft I would assume? Any pics or video of the bridge deck? Do you run that ship?

 

[Toki]

OK, story time.

Years ago, after a race, I was bringing my sailboat through the canal from Lake Union to Lake Washington in Seattle. It was quite late and pitch black outside. As I was entering the canal I saw a red nav light by the edge moving toward me. No problem, I'll move to port to give him plenty of clearance. But where's his green nav light? Must be burned out or something. About the time I saw the green nave light clear against the opposite edge, his horn blared and a spotlight shined on me. It was one HUGE gravel barge that filled the canal edge to edge. Did my quickest about face, gunned the throttle, and barely avoided catastrophe. And yes, I was monitoring 16, but no warnings were broadcast.

 

[ancora]

The ship-to-ship channel is 13.

 

[Benthic2]

Well.....if its story time.....
We were in a 26' sailboat in the Cape Cod Canal in some of the thickest fog I had ever seen. We were using the depth sounder to navigate....if it got too shallow....turn towards the center.....if it got too deep...turn towards the edge........every few minutes we'd idle down and just listen... All of a sudden we hear a massive air horn and its close!! We head for shallow water as fast as we can looking all around us.....and a train passes by on the bank of the canal.

I know we should not have been out, but I was just a kid and my dad was kind of stubborn. He thought it would burn off as soon as the sun got a little higher, and it did, but for few anxious minutes we thought we were going to get run down by some ship.

 

[Wayfarer]

That's amazing, what is the setup like for backing in, do you have a full redundant bridge station facing aft I would assume? Any pics or video of the bridge deck? Do you run that ship?

Yeah, that one's mine. I usually go outside on the bridge wings when backing up. I have controls for the engine an thruster on the wings, and mostly steer with the thruster. There's a helmsman inside that I shout rudder commands to. It's low tech, but it works. The visibility is decent, and I've almost always got a few extra sets of eyes watching my blind spots.

I think I'm actually better at driving backwards.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Well.....if its story time..... All of a sudden we hear a massive air horn and its close!! We head for shallow water as fast as we can looking all around us.....and a train passes by on the bank of the canal.
.

I was flying a sailplane along a ridge about three miles southeast of the Aspen Airport. Listening to the tower freq., it was clear that a twin turboprop coming down
Independence Pass represented a threat, so i was rubber-necking pretty aggressively when i hear a roaring sound. Immediate panicked wingover and dive toward the ridge; completely pointless, of course, since ive no idea where he is...took only a few seconds to realize i was evading a truck on Hwy 82, 1500' below.

 

[DDW]

The ore ships that go through the Welland are designed to be as wide as the lock, and they routinely rub the side as they go in. That's how it's piloted. Bow on the concrete and drive it in.

 

[porman]

Toki. I had the same experience heading West in the Montlake cut at night. There is a green light on the South shore that I always thought was a navigation light. On this particular night it was red. While I was trying to figure this out I was hit by the spotlight on the gravel barge that was under the bridge. And yes, that thing is big.

 

[Lou_tribal]

It is easier when it is not the ship you own and would pay the repairs in case of screw up lol

L

 

[HypnoBob]

As exhilarating as it was, we really enjoyed taking the Welland Canal into Lake Erie. Had to have a friend fly in to be the third crewman (required when locking up) and he had a blast. He met us in New York and traveled a part of the loop he missed when he single handed it a couple years before. What a great experience that was for all of us. We did it on our DeFever 49 CPMY.

 

[dutch-barge]

Not a real issue
just as ours is made of steel and has a steel bumper strip on the side.
we have 8 inch clearing on both sides in some French locks
all you have to do is get the nose in and the boat will slowly go in..

Once a year a fresh coat of paint on the steel bumper strip and it looks spiffy again

 

[Irish Rambler]

Peter B, there's a name for it, its called the canal effect and we've experienced it many times both in Irelands canals and also on our various cruises throughout Europe.
There's an mature actor called Timothy West in the UK who's a great canal enthusiast and if you look on You Tube you'll find his video's of 'contact sport'.
Another UK actor, David Suchet who portrays the UK series of Hercule Poirot is also very active in the narrow boating world.

 

[IWAB]

Wayfarer, Dave, thank you for the terrific videos of ore ships on the Great Lakes and the Canals. Just goes to show how much we live in our own bubbles. I had no idea that there were as many canals and narrow waterways that were navigated by BIG ships.

Can’t thank you enough for the very interesting information.

Alex

 

[Nepidae]

You will find that most canals which handle LARGE boats have at the openings 'bumpers' which allows the boat to hit, with no damage to either, to help them line up on entry.

Once in the lock, if you look, you will see the marks on the walls of where some have hit.

While I know that a captain of a big boat must have nerves of steel, it is probably more often when a pilot steps aboard. The captain knows that if the pilot makes mistakes, he is still responsible.

 

[rgano]

I conned a destroyer through the Suez Canal, and we were advised that getting too close to either bank would cause a rapid increase in the size to the bow wave throwing us toward the center - a bad thing when encountering an oncoming vessel. Since we were escorting the first US Navy aircraft carrier to pass through there in many years, all other traffic was halted, and soldiers lined the entire 110 miles of the canal. I took that same destroyer through the Panama Canal the next year.

Years later after riding the battleship USS New Jersey through there, I conned the battleship Iowa through the Panama Canal where there was about zero clearance in the locks because the thicker rubber fender had been added many years after the design of the battle ships which were 108 feet wide while the original canal clearance was I think about 110. We played fire hoses over the side to prevent starting fires due to friction. I n one lock the pilot told me to go ahead for five knots after the gate opened - nothing. We then rang up 10 knots - nada. I heard the pilot call for a "flush" and soon realized that he was having the lock flooding valves opened behind us because our flat bottom and straight hull sides FILLED the lock which prevented the four big screws from pulling water aft around the hull. As soon as we began to move, I ordered us back to five knots so as not to run our 86,000 tons out of the lock yanking the diesel mules into the drink.

Several years later, I achieved the 3rd fasted transient to the Panama Canal in a 105-foot long crew boat. The pilot would have me slip in ahead of slowly moving ships just before their bows cleared the lock sills getting us into the front of the lock. Then as the doors began to open, quite contrary to shipping practices, he had me cast off from the side of the canal where we moored and head for the opening. I had all four Detroit 12V92TAs at full throttle just BEFORE to gate was open enough for our beam and roared out of there to the next lock. That pilot was a hot dog with a willing accomplice!

 

[rslifkin]

Several years later, I achieved the 3rd fasted transient to the Panama Canal in a 105-foot long crew boat. The pilot would have me slip in ahead of slowly moving ships just before their bows cleared the lock sills getting us into the front of the lock. Then as the doors began to open, quite contrary to shipping practices, he had me cast off from the side of the canal where we moored and head for the opening. I had all four Detroit 12V92TAs at full throttle just BEFORE to gate was open enough for our beam and roared out of there to the next lock. That pilot was a hot dog with a willing accomplice!

That's a good way to make time around the slow boats! I guess I shouldn't feel like I was rushing at times on my Erie Canal transit last year, as my attempts at saving time were mild in comparison. I was usually going with drop the lines when the gates start opening, maneuver off the wall, then both engines idle forward (about 4 kts) once the gates are about 1/2 open, usually passing through them just as they finished opening (watch for turbulence passing the gates and be ready on the wheel).

 

[rgano]

We had a pretty good distance to get up to our full 25 knots before the gate opened enough. With my mate's hands on all four throttle, I still doubt chopping them and ramming the throttles into reverse would have slowed us enough had the gates ever stopped. Ah well, we survived.

 

[Northern Spy]

I conned a destroyer through the Suez Canal, and we were advised that getting too close to either bank would cause a rapid increase in the size to the bow wave throwing us toward the center - a bad thing when encountering an oncoming vessel. Since we were escorting the first US Navy aircraft carrier to pass through there in many years, all other traffic was halted, and soldiers lined the entire 110 miles of the canal. I took that same destroyer through the Panama Canal the next year.

Years later after riding the battleship USS New Jersey through there, I conned the battleship Iowa through the Panama Canal where there was about zero clearance in the locks because the thicker rubber fender had been added many years after the design of the battle ships which were 108 feet wide while the original canal clearance was I think about 110. We played fire hoses over the side to prevent starting fires due to friction. I n one lock the pilot told me to go ahead for five knots after the gate opened - nothing. We then rang up 10 knots - nada. I heard the pilot call for a "flush" and soon realized that he was having the lock flooding valves opened behind us because our flat bottom and straight hull sides FILLED the lock which prevented the four big screws from pulling water aft around the hull. As soon as we began to move, I ordered us back to five knots so as not to run our 86,000 tons out of the lock yanking the diesel mules into the drink.

Several years later, I achieved the 3rd fasted transient to the Panama Canal in a 105-foot long crew boat. The pilot would have me slip in ahead of slowly moving ships just before their bows cleared the lock sills getting us into the front of the lock. Then as the doors began to open, quite contrary to shipping practices, he had me cast off from the side of the canal where we moored and head for the opening. I had all four Detroit 12V92TAs at full throttle just BEFORE to gate was open enough for our beam and roared out of there to the next lock. That pilot was a hot dog with a willing accomplice!

Thanks for sharing that!

 

[Wayfarer]

Wayfarer, Dave, thank you for the terrific videos of ore ships on the Great Lakes and the Canals. Just goes to show how much we live in our own bubbles. I had no idea that there were as many canals and narrow waterways that were navigated by BIG ships.

Can’t thank you enough for the very interesting information.

Alex

Thanks for stroking my ego! lol.

You will find that most canals which handle LARGE boats have at the openings 'bumpers' which allows the boat to hit, with no damage to either, to help them line up on entry.

Once in the lock, if you look, you will see the marks on the walls of where some have hit.

While I know that a captain of a big boat must have nerves of steel, it is probably more often when a pilot steps aboard. The captain knows that if the pilot makes mistakes, he is still responsible.

I get to be my own pilot. It's usually my favorite part of the job, but is frequently the part that makes me want to crawl into bed and never get out again, lol.

Also, you might be surprised at how many docks and walls DONT have any kind of fendering. There are so many sharp 90 degree corners, so much jagged sheet piling, you'd think they were trying to sink me. Sometimes the angle iron that USED to hold some nice big friendly pieces of timber are all that's left, and Now it's just a rail of sharp steel... There's one dock we go to regularly that would be fine without fendering, but to be nice, they hung up some nice big fluffy tractor tires. I appreciate the sentiment, but the brackets that they hung them from were sharp steel angle iron chunks that stuck out about 90 degrees from the dock. I'd hit them way before I touched the tires. They're effectively can openers

I conned a destroyer through the Suez Canal, and we were advised that getting too close to either bank would cause a rapid increase in the size to the bow wave throwing us toward the center - a bad thing when encountering an oncoming vessel. Since we were escorting the first US Navy aircraft carrier to pass through there in many years, all other traffic was halted, and soldiers lined the entire 110 miles of the canal. I took that same destroyer through the Panama Canal the next year.

Years later after riding the battleship USS New Jersey through there, I conned the battleship Iowa through the Panama Canal where there was about zero clearance in the locks because the thicker rubber fender had been added many years after the design of the battle ships which were 108 feet wide while the original canal clearance was I think about 110. We played fire hoses over the side to prevent starting fires due to friction. I n one lock the pilot told me to go ahead for five knots after the gate opened - nothing. We then rang up 10 knots - nada. I heard the pilot call for a "flush" and soon realized that he was having the lock flooding valves opened behind us because our flat bottom and straight hull sides FILLED the lock which prevented the four big screws from pulling water aft around the hull. As soon as we began to move, I ordered us back to five knots so as not to run our 86,000 tons out of the lock yanking the diesel mules into the drink.

Several years later, I achieved the 3rd fasted transient to the Panama Canal in a 105-foot long crew boat. The pilot would have me slip in ahead of slowly moving ships just before their bows cleared the lock sills getting us into the front of the lock. Then as the doors began to open, quite contrary to shipping practices, he had me cast off from the side of the canal where we moored and head for the opening. I had all four Detroit 12V92TAs at full throttle just BEFORE to gate was open enough for our beam and roared out of there to the next lock. That pilot was a hot dog with a willing accomplice!

You've got some great sea stories, Rich

I have a similar situation happen somewhat regularly when coming into Manistee, MI. It's a skinny little channel, but it's mostly a straight shot, and there's loads of wind protection, so it looks harder than it is. When we come in with heavier loads, there's a point when we effectively take up the entire river. When we get about halfway through the Maple St. Bridge, there's only about 10 feet on either side, and about 4 feet under us in the middle of the channel, but at the turns of the bilge, she's inches off the banks. The effect is that there's really nowhere for the water to go, and we come to a stop. I'll slowly ramp up the engine speed, and even at full ahead, she'll just sit there. She's not aground, I can wiggle her around, but the hydraulic pressure just doesn't let her go ahead. It's like sticking your finger in the end of a garden hose. The harder you push, the harder it pushes back.

I've found that after running full ahead for a few minutes without going anywhere, if I just go all stop and allow the water to rush back in behind me, It'll help me surf through sometimes. Just like your lock flush. No friction burns though! lol.