Live aboard haters

[South of Heaven]

I have a great memory. A few years ago Boat Poker told me that I was irresponsible and gonna kill my fellow dockmates when I asked questions about space heaters and cords.

So his posts on this thread are just par for the course. I have no use for pompous people.

 

[Art]

Correction. You have the right to decide for any reason not forbidden by law, which is typically race, age, sex, ethnicity, national origin, etc. Otherwise you can reject any customer.

That goes wholley without saying.

In my open minded way of life I feel that obviously correct line of reasoning absolutely unnecessary to even bring up in my post... I'm surprised you did... as a form of rebuttal [as you say a "correction"] to such as the limited list included in my post? Dost thou protest too much?

Everyone should address and judge everyone else as an individual that stands solely on their own merits.

 

[psneeld]

I have a great memory. A few years ago Boat Poker told me that I was irresponsible and gonna kill my fellow dockmates when I asked questions about space heaters and cords.

So his posts on this thread are just par for the course. I have no use for pompous people.

Not sure he is pompous....been observing his posts for awhile and have personally met him..... so I have to believe his posts that others may not like are rooted in other things.



My guess he has forgot more in the last ten minutes about boating than many come here with. I thinks there are even more than just him that come across occasionally like you describe but it's not being pompous.



I was heavy into rescue and saw many foolish mistakes...he saw many mistakes during surveys and investigations..... it's hard not to come on strong when one feels strongly that someone is doing something that can be dangerous, even if they swear they know what they are doing.


You can think what you like, but I would use what he says despite your opinion...and if in doubt like any opinion here...verify.

 

[O C Diver]

I have a great memory. A few years ago Boat Poker told me that I was irresponsible and gonna kill my fellow dockmates when I asked questions about space heaters and cords.

So his posts on this thread are just par for the course. I have no use for pompous people.

I've met him; rafted off his boat overnight after a lock. Both he and his wife were very nice and accommodating when no other bulkhead space was available. But then maybe you know more because you've read a couple of his posts and don't agree with his interpretation.

Ted

 

[Jeff F]

In defence of BP, I think his market area is a bit unique. I'm lightweight liveaboard in my second winter in Toronto. The only yachts in the water are liveaboards. The rest are ashore. It's an effective low rent strategy here, but winters require a high degree of preparedness and/or hardiness, and it's only cheap in comparison to home ownership cost. Condos in the immediate neighborhood of the downtown municipal marina sell for $1,000/sf and up.

So there are thousands of yachts here that see four or five months a year of use, then they're buttoned up for the winter. And a couple of hundred liveaboards. So the local definition of liveaboard implies 12 months a year, and the vast majority of liveaboards do not have a "dirt home." I'd be surprised if more than half the boats here left that harbor last summer.

Just giving some context to BP's comments and illustrating big differences that are driven by geography and economics. Hard to generalize, but BP's rule probably is best.

The OP probably wasn't thinking of living in a snowbelt, but it happens!

 

[FlyWright]

IMO, you guys are being pretty tough on BP....aka Wambo! He's just sharing his professional opinion and his personal preference in job choices. He's earned that reputation and has the right to choose those he does business with. Being a liveaboard/cruiser himself, he knows of what he speaks.

There are full-time liveaboard who NEVER leave the dock and there are cruisers who live aboard at the dock during the off-cruising season. After seeing the full-time liveaboard boats on the dock at my last marina, I'd doubt either of them were even seaworthy.

 

[BandB]

That goes wholley without saying.

In my open minded way of life I feel that obviously correct line of reasoning absolutely unnecessary to even bring up in my post... I'm surprised you did... as a form of rebuttal [as you say a "correction"] to such as the limited list included in my post? Dost thou protest too much?

Everyone should address and judge everyone else as an individual that stands solely on their own merits.

No, it's a very clear line and some think you have to serve everyone and you can't discriminate against anyone while others think you can 100% choose who to serve. I didn't want anyone misinterpreting what you were staying to believe they could say "no" to anyone they wanted. I assumed you didn't mean to imply they could.

 

[Lollygag1]

I live next to a guy who does not maintain his house or yard. Place is a complete eyesore. While it sucks he is harmless and does not bother anyone. My options are 1) move or 2) deal w it. I chose the 2nd option. Am sure there are similar experiences at the dock.

While I would not be happy w a crappy boat next to me I think I would prefer it to a group of loud f-bomb party types

 

[BandB]

I have a great memory. A few years ago Boat Poker told me that I was irresponsible and gonna kill my fellow dockmates when I asked questions about space heaters and cords.

So his posts on this thread are just par for the course. I have no use for pompous people.

I find BP knowledgeable and opinionated. His opinions on space heaters are his right but may be on specific ages and types. I don't know when or what he said.

As to his not surveying liveaboards, that's totally his right. I question it as a business approach, but it's not some evil, wicked approach, just his opinion. Plenty of other surveyors one can use.

 

[Art]

No, it's a very clear line and some think you have to serve everyone and you can't discriminate against anyone while others think you can 100% choose who to serve. I didn't want anyone misinterpreting what you were staying to believe they could say "no" to anyone they wanted. I assumed you didn't mean to imply they could.

Apples to apples and oranges to oranges

As a self employed, sole owner business, building contractor: I CAN say "No Thank You", I do not want to accomplishing your project, to any person or business to which I decide to say "No". There isn't any legal reason why I must say yes I will do your project to anyone/any-business in my position as sole owner of my construction company. No means No... not yes nor maybe, or I might have to, or I am legally bound to, or gee I wish I could - It simply means No Thank You! - - - Which in its fully reduced definition means NO!

Similarly: A sole owner doing business as a boat surveyor has complete right to not accomplish a survey for anyone on any boat. The surveyor can say "No"... Thank You!

 

[PPandE]

The reason for refusing to accept a customer is important. You can't legally refuse for reason of discriminating against a projected class of person. You can refuse for any other reason or for no reason at all. Remember the case of the gay wedding cake.

 

[OldDan1943]

The reason for refusing to accept a customer is important. You can't legally refuse for reason of discriminating against a projected class of person. You can refuse for any other reason or for no reason at all. Remember the case of the gay wedding cake.

BINGO!!
be careful how and why

 

[healhustler]

Common Poker, ...so my cat took a dump and whizzed underneath my recliner. OK...some of the litter spilled in the machinery space and I haven’t had time to fix the hand vacuum. And so what, the occasional eye or snoot full of cat dander isn’t going to kill anyone. We found the secret to controlling fleas is dust mites and roaches. .

 

[Art]

When I am not interested in accomplishing a project it is not a requirement that each time I tell the person or company reason why. Although I usually do. Being a good business person it is very important to me to answer every inquiry/request regarding however or by whomever I am contacted.

Even if I for whatever reason do not want to accomplish the project I do my best to assist the customer in one way or another.

 

[Hippocampus]

I fully endorsed BP right to refuse anyone he so chooses and posted that in the earlier post. I only wanted to point out there’s a fair number of people on $1m to multiple million boats which are meticulously and often professionally maintained who are full time liveaboards. There are also a fair number of middle class people raising families or mom and pop retirees , cruising the world on truly beautiful and excellently kept by these skilled hard working people who are full time liveaboards. We have a dirt dwelling. Historically we’re full time on the boat ~8 of 12 months. So I’m OK. My equally diligent friends on sisterships who use St. Bretons or a family member as their mailing address and may occasionally stay with their kids are not suitable? Not logical.
Like him I wouldn’t go near a poorly maintained boat. Either for survey or to do other work. Nor would I rent a property of mine to anyone I thought was sketchy. My point wasn’t that he should restrict his judgment in deciding with whom to do business with but rather to stand up for all the good people who are live aboards. It’s most unfortunate there’s a percentage of people living on near delerict boats. Unsanitary, eyesores, hazards to navigation once finally abandoned and unfortunately not policed. But this isn’t the overwhelming majority of people I know who are live aboards.

 

[markpierce]

Don't bidders for a job that's not desirable for whatever reason just bid 50% to 100% more or don't submit a bid to avoid being the low/selected bidder?

 

[FlyWright]

Why look at the job if you have no intention of working it? Seems like a waste of time and effort for all involved.

 

[Simi 60]

Personally, I could not think of anything worse than living in a marina.
A step up from a caravan park from what I have seen over here and crazy expensive

But this one at Kota Kinnabalu I would live at in a heartbeat.
Absolutely spectacular and have been there a few times.

Marina | Sutera Harbour Golf & Country Club

 

[Art]

Don't bidders for a job that's not desirable for whatever reason just bid 50% to 100% more or don't submit a bid to avoid being the low/selected bidder?

I hold my cost proposal layout on a project to the highest esteem. In the same vein as I hold my production procedures on the project to the highest esteem while accomplishing installations. Also in the same vein of high esteem as I hold the owner of the project. In other words - I do projects correctly from start to finish.

If I do decide to compose a bid for a project: I write a full-on succinct yet comprehensive cost proposal whose details will be fully discussed and well understood between the owner and me before the project begins. I never try to overbid nor underbid and could care less what the other bids contain... because... the proposal details and costs I give are the right bid for which I will perform quality work to completion. Whether or not I get chosen as contractor on any project is of no concern to me. There are always plenty more opportunities knocking at my door.

 

[Hippocampus]

S60 totally agree. Most liveaboards I know don’t live In marinas. They’re out cruising. Stop in a marina for repairs or restocking. Spend less time in a marina then non live aboards.

 

[psneeld]

Out of the 10 liveaboard boats in my current 300 boat marina, I am the only one that has cruised more than a haulout move in the 8 years I have been coming here.


2 boats I know of, maybe 3, you have to take a shower after being aboard, I would say the majority of the rest are up and beyond typical hygiene standards though....at least the areas that guests visit.


So for Boatpoker to make a policy based on 30% (I know the sample is tiny...but maybe not too far off from the big picture), I can easily see if I had enough work to eliminate this class of boating type.




I know there are also quite a few liveaboards that cruise every year with the cruising time varying from short to most, maybe all of the year...but out of all the liveaboards I know/run across...the vast majority are in marinas, pretty permanent as they have grown too old or weary of constantly cruising or they have some sort of job/responsibility that keeps them in their slip.

 

[Hippocampus]

P just trying to point out the experience in Ft. Pierce maybe quite different that that of ex pats cruising the world. Totally agree there’s a large percentage of very stationary boats, both power and sail, that are used for simple housing. However, there’s a not inconsequential percentage that are used for active full time cruising. Of the RTW crowd I know through OCC a few fly back and forth to land housing but most were full time liveaboards during the experience. Similarly there was a possibility that my wife’s grandson was going to live with us. So started to get friendly and network with liveaboard families home schooling their kids. These boats were meticulously maintained and spotless. Just think to damn a whole class of boats due to one subset is inappropriate. Due to hostility toward that subset it’s gotten to the point full time liveaboards tend to hide their lifestyle. So wouldn’t be surprised if BP has surveyed liveaboard boats without his knowledge.

 

[psneeld]

I have JUST started to liveaboard full time in Ft Pierce ( have been a transient for 8 years) but have seen much more of the USA marinas on both coasts including Alaska. True I haven't "sailed the world" but my friends who have, either have swallowed the anchor or are permanent residents of marinas with a variable cruising lifestyle.


I have found Ft Pierce to actually be an active cruiser stopping point because of it's inlet and anchorages and is a jumping off pint for any Bahamas or Island bound cruisers....have some great happy hour story telling.


I guess one can think BP is damning a whole class of boaters....I just think he made an easy decision to cross off a small subset not to survey....


As a cruising liveaboard himself...I think he has the big picture.

 

[Hippocampus]

Like to bend an elbow with you sometime and hear those stories.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

Personally, I like having a few liveaboards on the dock - they keep an eye out for the rest of us when we are away. And yes, we are lucky that our's are neat and are not dock queens.

 

[ksanders]

IMO, you guys are being pretty tough on BP....aka Wambo! He's just sharing his professional opinion and his personal preference in job choices. He's earned that reputation and has the right to choose those he does business with. Being a liveaboard/cruiser himself, he knows of what he speaks.

There are full-time liveaboard who NEVER leave the dock and there are cruisers who live aboard at the dock during the off-cruising season. After seeing the full-time liveaboard boats on the dock at my last marina, I'd doubt either of them were even seaworthy.

That's the crux of it right there.

At least in my harbor MOST non cruising liveaboards are living on a slum boat that is frankly junk.... They often have cats onboard, and are piled high with crap.

No wonder there is a bias against liveaboards. In general and this is coming from a part time liveaboard, the reputation is earned.

 

[Hippocampus]

Totally agree with post #146 but still hold the cruising boats should not be lumped in with the low flyers.

 

[psneeld]

I am more worried about marinas, towns and states not allowing liveaboards or severely limiting their numbers and anchoring restrictions compared to one surveyor who chooses not to survey them

 

[Simi 60]

That's the crux of it right there.

At least in my harbor MOST non cruising liveaboards are living on a slum boat that is frankly junk.... They often have cats onboard, and are piled high with crap.

No wonder there is a bias against liveaboards. In general and this is coming from a part time liveaboard, the reputation is earned.

Are cats an issue but not dogs?
I have friends who live aboard with two large dogs who crap on the deck during the day while they are at work.
At least a cat craps in a litter tray or at least ours does.

 

[Irish Rambler]

In our port we have halve a dozen of junkers but all the rest are very well cared for liveaboards who take pride in both the mechanical and aesthetic condition of their pride and joy.
Unfortunately some people are slobs in whatever walk of life they move in and you will always get that I'm afraid.
Its got nothing to do with race, creed, colour or religion a slob is a slob and you can put them in a 5* hotel and it'll be a slobs house in no time.