Help picking an auto pilot

[motion30]

I am interested in installing an autopilot on my twin engine hydraulically steered 44 FT cruiser. I have a Garmin plotter so I figured easy buy a Garmin autopilot. But now I have read a lot of bad reviews with people having trouble with Garmin Auto pilots. . it is not a cheap unit at $4,000. Anyone have comments or suggestions? The dam hydraulic pump is $2,700 on its own

 

[GregBrannon]

Are there cheap systems? Do you want one?

I have a Raymarine AP a few generations old and am very happy with it, but I do not know how a new model would integrate with your system. Recent sage advice is to integrate like with like, including your marine network, but I'm sure there are not-like combinations that work well.

Give us more details about what other parts you already have: marine network, heading sensor, rudder position sensor, other components that you want to play well with your AP, etc.

Greg.

 

[motion30]

Greg.
This boat never had an autopilot installed so I'm starting from scratch. Like I said I have a Garmin plotter. It is a twin-engine boat with a single hydraulic cylinder actuated a tie bar between the two rudders and a hunautic helm

 

[Ken E.]

I have a Comnav pilot that I really like, integrated with a Furuno system. Comnav is used by many commercial and fish boats in the PNW and Alaska. Their customer service department could advise you on compatibility with your Garmin setup.

 

[bluebyu]

Raymarine EV-400 and pump $3700 one year ago. Nice system

 

[Codger2]

I have a Comnav pilot that I really like, integrated with a Furuno system. Comnav is used by many commercial and fish boats in the PNW and Alaska. Their customer service department could advise you on compatibility with your Garmin setup.

Though I have a Raymarine V200, I must say that the Comnav I had years ago was a great AP. Simple to use and fairly priced. I don't think you can go wrong with Comnav.

 

[bligh]

I am interested in installing an autopilot on my twin engine hydraulically steered 44 FT cruiser. I have a Garmin plotter so I figured easy buy a Garmin autopilot. But now I have read a lot of bad reviews with people having trouble with Garmin Auto pilots. . it is not a cheap unit at $4,000. Anyone have comments or suggestions? The dam hydraulic pump is $2,700 on its own

My Garmin autopilot is great. It has never let me down or failed in any manner. I use it for complex routes up through the delta. I have no complaints with it whatsoever.

 

[Solly]

You might be about to encounter my biggest peeve with electronic's manufacturers. When they change models the new often won't work well with the old. Once you get 2-3 model changes they change the systems. I believe they want you to buy a whole new suite of electronics.

Stick with Garmin and see what plays nice with your model chartplotter. The difference between brands amounts to nothing. They all do the same thing. Of course each manufacturer will name it differently and have their own set of cables to hook everything together.

 

[boomerang]

Garmin pilots do an ok job but they are certainly the pricier of the bunch and ,in my opinion, the biggest pain to install. Too many cables that always need extensions on most boats.
You'll need to know what size your steering cylinder is before you order your pilot. Unless you did in fact go with the Garmin smart pump where one size fits all. That's most likely the reason for the smart pump high price; you're paying for a high volume pump that you might or might not need.

 

[motion30]

Garmin pilots do an ok job but they are certainly the pricier of the bunch and ,in my opinion, the biggest pain to install. Too many cables that always need extensions on most boats.
You'll need to know what size your steering cylinder is before you order your pilot. Unless you did in fact go with the Garmin smart pump where one size fits all. That's most likely the reason for the smart pump high price; you're paying for a high volume pump that you might or might not need.

I do know the size of my cylinder it has a 9 inch stroke with a inch and 1/2 bore and it is a balanced cylinder. I'm reluctant to purchase the Garmin unit as I have seen mini reviews that stated a problem that seemingly could not be solved. This form is part of my research hoping to get recommendations

 

[motion30]

There is a company makes a large heavy-duty wheel pilot at an attractive price. But it can only steer a compass course and cannot be integrated with the GPS. For those of you but use Auto pilots how important is that ? I'm certainly not a tech guy so for me to program a course into a AP it would need to be simple

 

[fractalphreak]

There is a company makes a large heavy-duty wheel pilot at an attractive price. But it can only steer a compass course and cannot be integrated with the GPS. For those of you but use Auto pilots how important is that ? I'm certainly not a tech guy so for me to program a course into a AP it would need to be simple

Just saw this thread with no updates or answer to this latest question...

First off, +1 on ComNav. We have a ComNav 1001 autopilot on our boat, along with dual Garmin 4212 plotters, radar and sounder module. Our boat is a 42 ft trawler, approx 28,000 lbs dry, with twin engines and rudders with hydraulic steering. In addition to the above electronics, I've added a Nemo NMEA gateway, a dedicated navigation PC, and an AIS transponder.

We use the autopilot in its Pilot mode, where it stays on the magnetic course it is on (and we can manually adjust that with buttons on the autopilot at the lower helm or the remote on the flybridge); we have also used it in its Navigation mode both with the Garmin plotters with a simple waypoint programmed into the plotter, an actual route programmed into the plotter, and (what we use most commonly for longer runs once out of narrow areas) a route programmed into and activated on Coastal Explorer on our navigation computer. The ComNav has worked equally well with navigation inputs from the Garmins and the PC navigation. Its only real limitations are the limitations any autopilot would have, its not accurate/fine enough to safely use in some of the very narrow winding channels I have to navigate at times.

I HIGHLY recommend you consider investing in and learning to use the capabilities of any of the good autopilots mentioned. It allows you to refocus your attention from tending helm to commanding ship, which is much more enjoyable and I think can be safer. I find I stay more rested on longer runs.

While I agree with the sentiments that mixing brands can be problematic, I inherited a boat with the ComNav and Garmin setup, and find it works well. The Garmins put out the proper NMEA navigation signals for the ComNav, and ComNav is a highly developed autopilot that seems to have an almost cult following among fisherman and some of our cruisers here in the PNW.

To answer your question above about programming the autopilot, at least with mine (and I think most tend to work this way) is you don't program it - you program your route into your navigation device - IE your chartplotter, and have that route activated, and your chartplotter sends navigation signals ("sentences" that tell the autopilot how to steer) to the autopilot when you have the autopilot connected and turned on. IF you already know how to set a safe route in your plotter, then you have the knowledge to get everything to work.

 

[CaptTom]

One thing with Garmin chartplotters - while they play well with other autopilots, there's one thing they cannot do unless connected to a Garmin autopilot. They can do a direct "goto," but if you have a route with multiple waypoints, the Garmin chartplotter uses a proprietary output format that no-one else can use.

Most folks never use this feature, but if you're one who does, then that would be a consideration.

 

[mvweebles]

They can do a direct "goto," but if you have a route with multiple waypoints, the Garmin chartplotter uses a proprietary output format that no-one else can use.

Most folks never use this feature, but if you're one who does, then that would be a consideration.

I use route-nav to provide an estimate on TTG to destination versus next waypoint. Are you saying that this info is displayed on the Garmin screen, but not a non-Garmin repeater, such as a PC running Coastal Explorer or OpenCPN?

Peter

 

[bshanafelt]

Comnav

Mine has performed flawlessly for 15 years. Model 1001, with flux compass and heading rate stabilizer.

You can use any brand hydraulic pump, just needs a separate comnav converter box so that it speaks well with the autopilot.

Mine integrates seamlessly with my chartplotter, so plot a route in the boat will steer toward it.

Another plus for comnav is their support. They will walk you through any installation questions.

Good luck

 

[Codger2]

As most of you TFers know, I'm addicted to the latest electronics and have had most brands of "everything out there" over the years. Sometime ago, I bought a Mainship 30 pilot that was in Oxnard, CA and had to be moved to San Diego. At the time, I couldn't go to pick it up so a friend (captain) of mine said he would. The boat had a ComNav 1001 AP which he said was outstanding! Not having any experience with this brand, I couldn't wait to try it out. Very simple to use, nice graphic display and never wondered off course. I have to say it's one of the best electronic components I've ever had! I am fast approaching 80 and if I ever have another boat, it will have a ComNav AP!

 

[Xsbank]

Comnav with remote.

Like Ken E says.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Stay in the Family, Garmin in this case.

If your MFD is old, then don't be cheap and replace it too. You could switch brands.

Easiest way is to keep it in the family.

 

[Ski in NC]

I did not bother connecting my AP to the chart plotter. Mine is an older Simrad AP-35 and I tried to convert the output from from the plotter (nmea 2000) to what the AP wanted (nmea 0183) but I could not get it to work because I am a complete computer idiot.

But then I went back to running the boat and decided that since either I or my Girl had to be at the helm anyway, just tweak the heading knob as needed to keep on course.

So I have a decent AP and it has no connection to the plotter. Just fine with that.

 

[tpbrady]

I haven't noticed any problem sending a route to a Raymarine EVO-200 AP from a Garmin 4212 chartplotter, a Raymarine a67, or Coastal Explorer over a NMEA 2000 network. However once you have sent a route from any one of the those devices to the AP, you have to reboot the AP to get it to recognize a different source of track data. I generally only use Coastal Explorer for track data. It's a whole lot easier to use than a touch screen or button controlled chartplotter.

Tom

 

[AlaskaProf]

I did not bother connecting my AP to the chart plotter. ... just tweak the heading knob as needed to keep on course.

So I have a decent AP and it has no connection to the plotter. Just fine with that.

Good. I think integration is a "false god" leading to needless expense, installation headaches, cluttered displays, and most critically, operator disengagement. All one needs is for "George" to hold the course while you do important stuff like tweak the radar or pour the coffee.

 

[Northern Spy]

Depends on what you want it to do. If you like toys and buttons (and built in obsolescence and supporting oligopolies) get the Garmin. If you want reliable get a ComNav. They are primarily a commercial market device. Don't spend much on advertising, but they do answer the phone.

 

[twistedtree]

Although "staying in the family" is the safe thing to do, autopilots are one of the success stories with respect to standards and interoperability. I have direct experience with Simrad, Comnav, Raymarine, and Furuno all working with other charting systems and instruments. To the extent Garmin does things differently, that's all the reason in my book to pass over Garmin, and an even better reason to NOT spend more money with them on an autopilot.


My current favorite is Furuno, and although I haven't used one myself, the lower end NavPilot 300 competes very well price wise with the most budget-based pilots like Comnav.

 

[SteveD]

I have both a Comnav and a Garmin autopilot in my boat. The Garmin is just simply much better. It requires no adjustment or tuning. It maintains a nav course with cross track error on the order of ten or so feet. It has the marvelous "dodge" feature that lets you grab the wheel to take control. It is, quite simply, better technology.

The only bad thing is the number of key presses required to get it into nav mode. That is easily overcome by using the very good and inexpensive remote, which is programmable so a double button press does the trick.

 

[koliver]

Have you used an AP that follows a course sent to it from your GPS or from your plotter? If not, are you happy with adjustments that you make yourself from an AP that follows its own compass and ignores the route on your plotter?
I have had both. The old one was a Wagner S50, bulletproof for following its own compass. A knob on the face or on the remote for course changes, but you have to do them manually.

The new is a Raymarine that is capable of following the course from the plotter/GPS. Just wire it in and select "track".

After using the Raymarine for a few years I find I never bother with the "track" feature. It takes its instruction from the GPS, which I have not updated, so takes a while to enter new waypoints and connect them to make a new route. Also, the bigger issue while in "track" mode is automatic correction of cross track error.

You can be happily motoring along the track, accumulating an unknown amount of cross track error, and the AP will reach its preset limit of XTA and apply a 20° correction. Most of the time that is only surprising. Some of the time that will be dangerous.
Say there is a deadhead that you know is there, but, because it is 20° off your course, you don't need to be concerned about it. If you are not attentive to the course correction, you find yourself running into danger before you know it and may have little time to disengage the AP and get away from the danger. Or another boat, or, or,.....

 

[AlaskaProf]

Have you used an AP that follows a course sent to it from your GPS or from your plotter? If not, are you happy with adjustments that you make yourself from an AP that follows its own compass and ignores the route on your plotter?
I have had both. The old one was a Wagner S50, bulletproof for following its own compass. A knob on the face or on the remote for course changes, but you have to do them manually.

The new is a Raymarine that is capable of following the course from the plotter/GPS. Just wire it in and select "track".

After using the Raymarine for a few years I find I never bother with the "track" feature. It takes its instruction from the GPS, which I have not updated, so takes a while to enter new waypoints and connect them to make a new route. Also, the bigger issue while in "track" mode is automatic correction of cross track error.

You can be happily motoring along the track, accumulating an unknown amount of cross track error, and the AP will reach its preset limit of XTA and apply a 20° correction. Most of the time that is only surprising. Some of the time that will be dangerous.
Say there is a deadhead that you know is there, but, because it is 20° off your course, you don't need to be concerned about it. If you are not attentive to the course correction, you find yourself running into danger before you know it and may have little time to disengage the AP and get away from the danger. Or another boat, or, or,.....

I'm not sure, but i think you're making my argument.

Assume for the moment that i cant see anything out the windshield (yes, I am instrument rated) the level of cross-checking of radar, AIS, plotter courseline and autopilot is not particularly onerous at nine knots, and anyone who allows his tactical situation to degrade to the extent described should find another occupation.

In the aircraft i'm most familiar with, autopilot integration is the norm often with multiple NAV inputs, but even there, i generally flew in the "heading" mode except when executing an approach to low ceilings. It generally flew smoother, and i never have to ask myself "Why does it do that?"

In short, i favor systems which support my management of the vessel, leaving the integration to me. YMMV.

 

[tpbrady]

Koliver,

I am not quite sure I understand what you are talking about. On my Raymarine EVO-200 when in the track mode, it navigates direct to the next way point in the route not using the compass but with the COG from the GPS. It's not unusual in a cross current situation to see the COG 10 degrees off the compass heading. It doesn't generate a significant cross track error as it is always correcting for it. I agree that creating a route on a conventional chart plotter is a pain. That's why I use Coastal Explorer. Routes are easy to create and to find once you have created them.

Tom

 

[koliver]

Koliver,

I am not quite sure I understand what you are talking about. On my Raymarine EVO-200 when in the track mode, it navigates direct to the next way point in the route not using the compass but with the COG from the GPS. It's not unusual in a cross current situation to see the COG 10 degrees off the compass heading. It doesn't generate a significant cross track error as it is always correcting for it. I agree that creating a route on a conventional chart plotter is a pain. That's why I use Coastal Explorer. Routes are easy to create and to find once you have created them.

Tom

Tom:

If what you describe is supposed to happen, I will need to dig deeper into why mine acts as I have described.
I am away from the boat just now, but will do that at the first opportunity.
Not sure what my Ray model is. The remote is the 100 series, I am sure of that number.

 

[syjos]

I've sold quite a number of Furuno 711C's. Clients are happy with the AP.

Most were DIY'ers and appreciated the excellent tech support from Furuno. Furuno supports older legacy products for a very long time. One of my radars is a 1987 vintage Furuno 1830 which they still provide support 33 years later.

The 711C will accept input from most plotters.

PM me and I can quote you a price.

Furuno is minimum advertised price protected so I can not quote on an open form like this. In order to quote a price for the pump, I need the displacement of the rudder ram. The owners manual or contacting the manufacturer should provide that.

 

[rslifkin]

I've been autopilot shopping as well, and when I pull the trigger, the Furuno 711C is the likely target. Seems to be a good unit from what I can find, and anything else that's as well liked (Simrad, the fancier Comnav stuff) is the same or more $$$. Plus, I'll likely be going Furuno for the rest of the electronics when I refresh them, so it just makes sense.