How does a scam work?

[Kuncicky]

I put my boat on Craigslist to see if I could get any nibbles. Not all that serious, but just wanted to see what might happen.


Well,within 5 seconds after the ad went up, I received an email, which I have pasted below this. I know it is a scam, but what I can't figure out is how the scam works. Needless to say, I did not reply, but I wonder if anyone can tell me how they want to scam me? Just curious.

.
Thanks,
Bill



"Thank you for keeping in touch. I'm satisfied with the
condition as observed on the advert just as the value expressed. Can
you please withdraw or mark it sold on Craigslist and considered it
sold to me. I will add extra $70 for hold down fee to the agreed price
while you remove the ad and consider it sold. I am going to be mailing
out a cashier check out to you and have the Mover pick it up once you
confirmed the check has been cleared and verified by your bank.I
reiterate when you have cash in hand after check clears. I am going to
be needing your full mailing address and full name to be on the check

(1)Full mailing address

(2)Name to be on the check

(3)Phone number

(4)Agreed price to sell

The check will be FedEx overnight to you immediately and deliver to
your residence 1 day via FedEx/USPS courier service. Feel free to text
(916) 588-3272 if you have any questions or need to discuss pickup/
ETA, and I appreciate the effort you have put into contacting me and
look forward to a smooth transaction.

Louise

 

[BandB]

I put my boat on Craigslist to see if I could get any nibbles. Not all that serious, but just wanted to see what might happen.


Well,within 5 seconds after the ad went up, I received an email, which I have pasted below this. I know it is a scam, but what I can't figure out is how the scam works. Needless to say, I did not reply, but I wonder if anyone can tell me how they want to scam me? Just curious.

.
Thanks,
Bill



"Thank you for keeping in touch. I'm satisfied with the
condition as observed on the advert just as the value expressed. Can
you please withdraw or mark it sold on Craigslist and considered it
sold to me. I will add extra $70 for hold down fee to the agreed price
while you remove the ad and consider it sold. I am going to be mailing
out a cashier check out to you and have the Mover pick it up once you
confirmed the check has been cleared and verified by your bank.I
reiterate when you have cash in hand after check clears. I am going to
be needing your full mailing address and full name to be on the check

(1)Full mailing address

(2)Name to be on the check

(3)Phone number

(4)Agreed price to sell

The check will be FedEx overnight to you immediately and deliver to
your residence 1 day via FedEx/USPS courier service. Feel free to text
(916) 588-3272 if you have any questions or need to discuss pickup/
ETA, and I appreciate the effort you have put into contacting me and
look forward to a smooth transaction.

Louise

Check will be counterfeit. Plan is getting your boat before that is determined as it may take a while. Check may also simply be written for too much and you asked to return some. Basically scams depend on giving you something better than expected and then yanking it all out from under you.

 

[ScottC]

I totally agree with you that it's a scam. A bit of a head-scratcher. My best guess is that the scam part of it is activated when you send a text to that phone number. Perhaps if they can manage to match up your name and your phone number AND that you initiated a text to them, it commits you to something that will cost $$$

 

[CharlieO.]

They send you a fake check for over the amount, then ask you to send that money to the shipper, hoping you will do that before the bank tells you the check is fake.

Or they ask for your bank info to make a transfer to you.

That's the basic version, it varies a bit.

Full name. Address. Phone number = can also be phishing for identity theft.

 

[kthoennes]

Oh heck, the scammers don't actually want your boat. They may be operating in a basement in Mumbai or Chicago somewhere. The (phony) check will be for more than the price and they'll ask you for the difference in return (often in a Visa cash card sent at Walmart, CVS, whatever) or some other variation. Some of the scams are kind of hard to figure out though, until you go along with them for a while and you catch the scheme. Might sound kind of silly and transparent, but I happen to work at court and you wouldn't believe how many people fall for jury-duty-warrant calls, or calls that your grandson needs bail money. Here's another odd example, this is a sales listing for our own boat lifted off the original sales listing years ago. You can see I posted a comment on the page, but they never bothered to remove it. Not sure what the intent of this might be, cutting and pasting obsolete sales listings as if they're current:

https://boats-from-usa.com/mainship/mainship-37-motoryacht-16863

 

[READY]

A few years back we had a guy knock on our front door of our residence. He was expecting to meet the "owner" who he had responded to for a Craigslist rental listing. When he quickly realized I was the real owner he sheepishly said "I thought it was too good to be true". The scam was that he was to send in a deposit. Fortunately he insisting on the onsite meeting. Later on the same thing happened with my neighbors house. So many scams...

 

[BandB]

A million scams, some sophisticated, some not. This could just be to pick up a small amount from you or more. All are bad news.

 

[Bacchus]

I've had texts in response to CList ads wanting me to click on a link so the supposed buyer can " verify" I am legit.
No thank you was my response come look at the item and see that I and the item are legit. That usually ends it but some are very persistent wanting me to click on some link... no thanks... good bye.
The first clue is when the response is literally within seconds of a new ad being posted and the fact that it simply states interested in and the ad is repeated.
I'm guessing these are auto "bots" that respond to any/ all new ads.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Craigslist is a dangerous place to buy or sell. Scams and the risk of personal harm. I take the following precautions.
- I meet the buyer or seller in a safe public place. Never my home.
- For smaller purchases cash only. No exceptions.
- For bigger purchases my preference is wire transfer done at a bank with a teller so that the funds can be guaranteed to pass.
- Cashier's check ONLY if I am with the purchaser and witness the check made out by the bank in my name.
- Documents are not signed until $$$ changes hands.
- I will not hold an item for anyone. 1st buyer who can pay for it gets it.

 

[koliver]

That scam has been around years and years.
It depends on the banks honouring the check in the beginning, which they will do for you, their good customer. Then when they do find out there is no money to fund the cheque, they come back to your bank account and debit you for the loss. You end up in fight with your own bank to see who was the dupe. Usually your account agreement gives them more rights than you, so they win.
In addition, you will have given out enough information to the scammer that there can be another world of identity theft going on.
Last, there is the overpayment and the request for a real money cheque to return the overpayment.
Don't open any further emails from that sender.

 

[FWT]

That scam has been around years and years.
It depends on the banks honouring the check in the beginning, which they will do for you, their good customer. Then when they do find out there is no money to fund the cheque, they come back to your bank account and debit you for the loss. You end up in fight with your own bank to see who was the dupe. Usually your account agreement gives them more rights than you, so they win.
In addition, you will have given out enough information to the scammer that there can be another world of identity theft going on.
Last, there is the overpayment and the request for a real money cheque to return the overpayment.
Don't open any further emails from that sender.

Exactly right.

There is a difference between the clearing times for checks between when "good funds" are given (and you earn interest, etc) and the maximum length of time it can take for a check to be returned. Its the difference between about 2 days and about 10 days.

But I can't believe they actually want to take possession of your boat, the value you think is at risk.

The boat conversation is merely the warm up to some other agenda. It can be information on you to hack your accounts. It can be some "ask" to get you to send funds in advance of them sending funds. And so forth. If you send them ANY small check they have enough info on you to hack away. They will claim some sense of time urgency, and some deal for you that's too good to be true. But first they need to build your trust.

At the very least, they know you are selling a boat and soon to have large balances in your account they can go after.

 

[Nick14]

FWIW, my wife is a CPA/MBA and spent her career as a senior executive in financial services. She often told me that about 40%-50% of "cashier's checks" circulated are fraudulent.

Anyone with a quality laser printer can create a very authentic looking 'cashier's check'. Banks will even accept it when you go to deposit it. It's only a couple of weeks later that it's returned as fraudulent.

'Cashier's checks' used to be thought of as guaranteed reliable. No longer. As @Portage_Bay said, only accept a cashier's check if you go with the person in person to the bank and see the bank issue it.

 

[2savage]

The scam happens because of ACH delays. Although your bank may clear the 'bank check', the automatic clearing house system can take several weeks to process the payment with the bank on which the check was drawn. So, the funds may appear in your bank account for now, only to be reversed by the ACH at some point in the future.

 

[john-o]

I had almost the same "contact" and it went something like this, initially...
= I'm away on a business trip, so I'm sending a check to hold that item.
Mr. ********* will swing by with the full amount, when I notice my check has cleared the bank. Please have the bill of sale all ready for him when he arrives with the balance."

I ran both names on the internet and to my surprise, they both came up as a same couple that acquire property of all kinds, running this con. Mr********
shows up with a forged certified bank draft/note... whatever, and with a quick, slick run at the mouth, runs off with the goods.

These internet web sites are great for small stuff like, garden hoses, wheel barrels, tires, stuff like that. But even then, I answered one for a STIHL chainsaw 290. Fortunately for me, I know STIHL chainsaws inside and out.
The cover was STILH, but the inside was some kind of small go cart motor or thing. Whoever put this thing together did a nice job, drive sprocket and all.

 

[garbler]

Big clue is the sentence structure revealing English is not native and most likely fashioned with a computer translation program. These guys are running variation of check kiting. There are lots of recipes but timing is everything as success relies entirely on the float time banking systems need to verify funds. These days very few checks are hand sorted as the checks have an encrypted code similar to a bar code that is electronically scanned. Apprx five to seven days to confirm.

However years ago I surveyed a yacht for a couple twice convicted of ‘ Kiting ‘. Nice people and bought me a lovely lunch but not until later did I learn their skills from an FBI agent. They would place the checks in the microwave for a couple seconds to burn off the code and thus force the bank to hand sort, i.e. buy five to seven days. Boggles the mind

Rick

 

[BandB]

FWIW, my wife is a CPA/MBA and spent her career as a senior executive in financial services. She often told me that about 40%-50% of "cashier's checks" circulated are fraudulent.

Anyone with a quality laser printer can create a very authentic looking 'cashier's check'. Banks will even accept it when you go to deposit it. It's only a couple of weeks later that it's returned as fraudulent.

'Cashier's checks' used to be thought of as guaranteed reliable. No longer. As @Portage_Bay said, only accept a cashier's check if you go with the person in person to the bank and see the bank issue it.

Wifey B: I was shocked when I learned a few years ago from hubby how easy it is to print checks on your computer and printer with all the MICR coding and everything else. As long as you've got the info from one check, you can go to town.

I'm scared of checks, period. I don't ever write any. At least on a regular check you can check id and confirm who you're dealing with, but on a cashier's check, only possible thing is confirm with the bank. Of course, announce you're going to do that and one giving it to you will run. :lol:

 

[psneeld]

Pretty sad.... when in many of our lifetimes a handshake was as good as a check, deposit, contract, etc....

 

[Delta Riverat]

Hehe, yeah, Craig's List. Buy and sell regularly. No holds, cash only. First with cash wins!

 

[BruceK]

Years ago I billed a client. He altered the amount of the bill, down of course, and (pre EFT)paid,sending a copy of the modified account with the cheque. Client had an Accountancy practice, was a raving alcoholic,had psych issues, once phoned me at home at midnight, drunk, requesting(I think, it wasn`t clear) advice.An ex client thereafter. A scam nevertheless.

 

[slowgoesit]

Item for sale for, say $200.00.
Get contacted with a similar offer the OP got. It says "I'll send you a Cashier's check"
They send a "check" Fedex, Check arrives for say, $400.00.

I receive an e-mail asking me to send "overage" back to them via wire, but to keep an extra $50.00 for my trouble . . . , so you wire $150 back . . .

You never hear from them again, the check they sent is bogus, you're out $150, and they're richer $150 minus Fedex cost to send you the fake check.

I've gone along with a bunch of these, and have a collection of fake cashiers checks, some of them quite good! I chuckle knowing I've at least cost them the cost of the Fedex!

Oh, and I generally turn a copy of the checks over to the local police, or the originals if they want them. They probably toss them, but I'm covered legally.

 

[Benthic2]

Big clue is the sentence structure revealing

Many times this is intentional. These operations deal in massive volume and they don't have time to have 3 or 4 email exchanges with a potential victim. They need to weed out intelligent people right away. To do this they will use bad grammar and mis spellings. If you get past those mistakes and still call them, you are a promising candidate to get screwed, and it's worth their time to deal with you. It's actually a clever method of qualifying their potential victims.

 

[catalinajack]

Ask for a wire transfer instead to a newly-opened account. Once wired, the money is yours. Methinks you will not get a response.

 

[BandB]

Pretty sad.... when in many of our lifetimes a handshake was as good as a check, deposit, contract, etc....

No. Perhaps among friends it was but scams have always been around from people selling magic elixirs to land scams to people saying they'd buy but they couldn't pay the rest for two weeks and two weeks never came. Because we weren't victimized, doesn't mean others weren't and doesn't mean dishonesty wasn't always around us. Is it worse today? I believe so, as I believe there's a certain aspect to judging based on money and power rather than human decency and morality.

 

[BandB]

Item for sale for, say $200.00.
Get contacted with a similar offer the OP got. It says "I'll send you a Cashier's check"
They send a "check" Fedex, Check arrives for say, $400.00.

I receive an e-mail asking me to send "overage" back to them via wire, but to keep an extra $50.00 for my trouble . . . , so you wire $150 back . . .

You never hear from them again, the check they sent is bogus, you're out $150, and they're richer $150 minus Fedex cost to send you the fake check.

I've gone along with a bunch of these, and have a collection of fake cashiers checks, some of them quite good! I chuckle knowing I've at least cost them the cost of the Fedex!

Oh, and I generally turn a copy of the checks over to the local police, or the originals if they want them. They probably toss them, but I'm covered legally.

Been tempted to let them send and to collect them, but then even giving them the information to do that worries me. Even emailing with them can be dangerous if they're really good at phishing and with links. It's like telemarketers, I'd like to play games with them and waste their time, but they may still somehow take advantage and charge and even piece the tape together to make agreement. I just prefer to cut all contact quickly. No return email to scammer, no follow up to suspicious buyer, no conversation with telemarketer or with solicitor at door.

 

[NEtrawler58]

If you haven't seen this before, take the time, very funny!

 

[Group9]

Check will be counterfeit. Plan is getting your boat before that is determined as it may take a while. Check may also simply be written for too much and you asked to return some. Basically scams depend on giving you something better than expected and then yanking it all out from under you.

This and the sending you a bogus check for $12,000 for the widget you sold for $10,000, and the buyer acting like it was a mistake, and saying, "Oh, well, just go ahead and deposit and send me the $2000 back and we'll be good.", being the much more common way of doing it.

They usually don't care about the thing you're selling. They just want you to mail the excess back.

I'm still a member our state bar and we are bombarded with a similar scam where they ask you to collect a debt from some company for them. The company (which is the scammer, too) always capitulates right away and sends you the requested check, with them wanting you to deposit it in your office account, and sent them their 66 per cent or whatever, after your fee. Then of course, the next day or two, the bank calls you and tells you the cashier's check you deposited is no good.

The sad thing is how many older attorneys have fallen for it, which is why they keep doing it I guess.

Whenever I get one, I email them back and say, "Well, I'm not practicing any more, but I've got some friends with baseball bats, so give us the name and address of the guy, and we'll get what he owes you and more". I never hear back after that.

 

[High Wire]

Lots of CL scams. The basic premise is they send you bad check and one way or another you send them back your good money. It’s amazing to me that right now in a couple minutes I can find a guaranteed 100 percent scam boat listing, still there again and again. The giveaway is it’s always too good a deal. Like new boat motor and trailer for an odd amount between $1000-2000.

 

[READY]

Yes scams have always been around but I do think in todays era we have lost most trust (sadly for good reason). When we lived in NC my dad used to buy fine jewelry from Essex Jewelers in NYC (long gone from what I can tell). They would send him the item to evaluate (for my mom) and he would send a check or sometimes send it back if it was not the right style. These items were typically worth $1k and up in the 1960s. He must have had the relationship for 20 years. When I was a young adult the extended this to me. No credit check, no deposit! It was good enough that I was Charlie's son. Understand we were just average middle class people. Hard to find anything like that today. In that sense "Innocence is lost".

 

[Shrew]

I'm guessing these are auto "bots".......

Nooooooo!! Not the Autobots!!!! Decepticons, maybe, but not Autobots!!

LMFAO!!!!

 

[Tom.B]

Oh, and I generally turn a copy of the checks over to the local police, or the originals if they want them. They probably toss them, but I'm covered legally.

Just curious... Wouldn't the Secret Service be the agency that would cover bank fraud/counterfeit checks?