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Old 08-30-2019, 08:47 AM   #61
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We moved straight from sea kayaks to our 30’ boat, so didn’t have a clue and wallowed around in following seas. Thankfully, we followed the commercial fishing boat during our first summer.

Our channel is long and narrow with steep shores and islands/rocks to refract and rebound waves. What we learned was basic stuff, like matching speed to waves and more importantly, how to speed up and slide diagonally across a channel in the trough to match up with a calm water bay on the other side...a move you have to start miles ahead depending on how wide the channel is.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:06 AM   #62
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We moved straight from sea kayaks to our 30í boat, so didnít have a clue and wallowed around in following seas. Thankfully, we followed the commercial fishing boat during our first summer.

Our channel is long and narrow with steep shores and islands/rocks to refract and rebound waves. What we learned was basic stuff, like matching speed to waves and more importantly, how to speed up and slide diagonally across a channel in the trough to match up with a calm water bay on the other side...a move you have to start miles ahead depending on how wide the channel is.
The best way to reduce the effect of following waves is by changing speeds. However, some of the members here have very little ability to make significant changes in speed.
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Old 08-30-2019, 01:29 PM   #63
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In my Carver C34 it was a 30kt boat so there was no problem dealing with following seas. It was my favorite sea condition. You just go a little faster than the waves and it was smooth sailing. My NP45 is a 11kt boat which is not fast enough. When the wave is faster than the boat it pushes the back of the boat causing temporary loss of steering and broaching. Next time Iíll try zig zag to keep the waves off of the transom. It may take a while longer to get to my destination but will hopefully be a more controlled and comfortable ride. I ended up with salt water in my lazarette and thatís with the transom door shut! I had to pull everything out of the lazarette and wash everything including the lazarette.
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Old 08-31-2019, 11:36 AM   #64
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6) the boat does not like following seas and can feel top heavy in quartering/following seas. I donít know whether it is any better or worse than any other trawler in those type of sea conditions but I have never felt in danger. Other than that specific sea condition the boat always feels very solid and well behaved..
DD,

Sounds like you are enjoying your boat and getting some good mileage in.

Are the following sea steerage concerns also occurring while using the AutoPilot?
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:06 AM   #65
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Great boat ! Salty and sea going boat. I just toured the NP and found the layout and quality tough to beat. The people that own these boats tend to be friendly and informative. I sure enjoyed meeting the owner of the NP we toured.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:45 AM   #66
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Agree and you have a great boat as well. We went back and forth trying to decide between the Helmsman and the North Pacific. Ultimately, ( joint choice with wife) decided we liked the NP a bit better. Trade-offs with each model.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:57 PM   #67
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Great boat ! Salty and sea going boat. I just toured the NP and found the layout and quality tough to beat. The people that own these boats tend to be friendly and informative. I sure enjoyed meeting the owner of the NP we toured.
Hi Nocanvas,

I enjoyed meeting you two. Next time I'm in Blaine maybe I could get a tour of your boat? You mentioned the NP as being more "sea going and salty". I'm not so sure about that. From what I understand the Helmsman has a soft chine vs the hard chine of the NP. I think with the soft chine and the lower center of gravity of the Helmsman that your Helmsman may behave in a more sea-kindly manner in rougher seas.

From my very limited understanding of hull forms and fluid dynamics (big word); hard chines are usually found on coastal boats because the hard chine limits roll - up to a point. Once that point is exceeded the hard chine becomes less sea-kindly and may actually cause the boat to roll more. That's one of the reasons that blue water hulls are smoother and more rounded, (soft chine or no chine at all), which helps reduce turbulence.

I've been trying to educate myself on the subject but it's a very complicated science. At least to me. I'm sure there are many other reasons for having a hard chine but my interest is how the boat will handle in nasty sea conditions since I will eventually be cruising up and down the West Coast.

Anyways, I'll keep an eye out for you guys.
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:05 PM   #68
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DD,

Sounds like you are enjoying your boat and getting some good mileage in.

Are the following sea steerage concerns also occurring while using the AutoPilot?
Hi Fletcher,

Sorry about the slow reply. your post got by me. To answer your question - yes. The auto pilot over all does a better job than me in following seas but now and then will make the wrong move and the boat will lean and take off in an unintended direction. It's very disconcerting to say the least. Anyways, I have decided to add active stabilizers. I'm also going to leave the rolling chocks on.

I'll let you know how that works out.

Cheers!
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:25 PM   #69
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DD, I think that is a good call on your part to go with active stabilization. We did as well, and it has been well worth the investment. Keep us posted if you head down the coast.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:28 PM   #70
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DD, I think that is a good call on your part to go with active stabilization. We did as well, and it has been well worth the investment. Keep us posted if you head down the coast.
How well does the active stab work in following seas?
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:14 PM   #71
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How well does the active stab work in following seas?
I run the boat offshore with the Auto Pilot engaged, unless I need to make a course change. The Furuno AP is able to hold its course ok with following seas with, or without the stabilization on.

Regarding the rolling from beam or quartering seas (a separate topic) it has helped a lot. We have a Seakeeper Gyro. I wrote a very basic article which is on the Helmsman website under Trawler Talk. Since I wrote that, I now have a sensitive Sat Compas (Furuno SC30) which provides the roll rate to the .01 degree. It’s on my list to do some more testing and produce the actual numbers regarding roll reduction.

Note, the Gyro was the solution I chose, but I know there are a lot of happy customers out there with fins.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:55 PM   #72
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Has anyone with a single engined NP 38,or another 2-4ft longer fitted a wing engine or other back up form of propulsion?
I`m used to twins, and contemplating a Clipper 40(think cockpit extended NP38) with single. Clipper and NP have the same builder and some similarities so any information could be helpful.
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:18 PM   #73
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Looking for input from NP45 owners

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Full Disclosure After Two Years, 300 hours and 1600nm:

1) water is getting in to the front bilge and they canít find the source so I always have a few gallons of ďfreshĒ water sloshing around down there.
2) the main water pump went out because it wasnít installed with the filter that comes with it, which I replaced
3) the blinds that came with the boat are nice but are constantly breaking at the pull string. Trevor has replaced 3 so far at no cost to me
4) the generator impeller died after almost 700 hours (I was told thatís about the life expectancy, which seems reasonable). I replaced it
5) the oven broiler doesnít work. Dave (The mechanic that Trevor uses) talked to
Force10 and they said that it probably came from the factory that way. I havenít talked to Trevor about it yet.
6) the boat does not like following seas and can feel top heavy in quartering/following seas. I donít know whether it is any better or worse than any other trawler in those type of sea conditions but I have never felt in danger. Other than that specific sea condition the boat always feels very solid and well behaved.
Thatís about it. The only thing that I would consider approaching major it the water leak. The boat performs well, is a solid build and all the major systems work when I need them. I have not been in a better built boat in regards to solid build and fit and finish.

Trevor has been great to work with and has even given me a ride across the boarder (a few times) to get my truck.
This is a really helpful list.

Weíll take delivery of NP4512 in the spring of 2020. We made a few modifications: swapped out fresh water tanks for fuel (bringing total fuel to 700 gal), moved to a single fresh water tank in the forward bilge, added a water maker, replaced the wooden blinds with cell shades, etc. Most of the other gear is stock (the NP45 has a really nice set of standard features).

Iíd really love input from other NP45 owners on what changes or upgrades theyíve made or wish theyíd made. I see one big vote for active stabilizers.

It only comes with three 200 Ah house batteries, but thereís a generator and we sprung for the integrated solar panels on the pilot house. Though with hydronic heat, I just donít know. Our current boat has twice the battery power, but itís definitely overkill (we used 40% in two days at anchor on our last trip - we never use our generator).

Anyway, Iíd love thoughts from the other NP45 owners.

Thanks.
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:32 PM   #74
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Shifty,

Hi Shifty. I'm very interested in converting my water tanks to fuel also. What size water tank were you able to fit in the forward bilge? Was it rigid or flexible? Did you have it done at the factory?

Thanks,
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Old 09-30-2019, 10:57 PM   #75
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It only comes with three 200 Ah house batteries, but thereís a generator and we sprung for the integrated solar panels on the pilot house. Though with hydronic heat, I just donít know. Our current boat has twice the battery power, but itís definitely overkill (we used 40% in two days at anchor on our last trip - we never use our generator).

I note that you are going to take deliver of NP4512. So I am assuming that you will be taking delivery of the 12th NP45 built. So probably not too many other NP45 owners around to offer input.

How much solar is on the PH? I have 720AH for my house bank (at least that was the nominal size when it was installed). With a 390W solar panel during the summer, it is adequate depending on how much we run the inverter. If we are on the hook for a bit, we run the generator for an hour or two in the morning or evening to heat water and top off the batteries.

You mentioned that you had a larger bank on your current boat. How large is the bank and how old is the bank?
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:08 AM   #76
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Trevor is estimating 250 gallons. We’re having it done as part of the build. It will be rigid and molded into the shape of the available space, but i should double check the materials.
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:11 AM   #77
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For the house bank capacity, give some thought to what your loads are, how much solar you have and how long you want to go without generator or shore power input. And don't forget to factor in any generator runtime that you'll have for other purposes where you get some charging.
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:25 AM   #78
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I note that you are going to take deliver of NP4512. So I am assuming that you will be taking delivery of the 12th NP45 built. So probably not too many other NP45 owners around to offer input.

How much solar is on the PH? I have 720AH for my house bank (at least that was the nominal size when it was installed). With a 390W solar panel during the summer, it is adequate depending on how much we run the inverter. If we are on the hook for a bit, we run the generator for an hour or two in the morning or evening to heat water and top off the batteries.

You mentioned that you had a larger bank on your current boat. How large is the bank and how old is the bank?
We’ll have three 145W panels flush mounted into the hard top. Given we’re in the Pacific NW, I wouldn’t count on these as a reliable source of power.

Our goal is to run the generator once a day at anchor. But I’d like a little buffer capacity in case we’re away can’t get back on time (i.e. we leave for the day and hit 50% at 5 pm, but we’re still out-and-about).

Current boat has 1,140 Ah across 6 UL-16s (about 600 useable Ah). I installed them in 2015 and they’re still in pretty good shape. We don’t draw much power. Biggest consumers are the fridge and diesel furnace. The only reason to run the generator is hot water. While it’s really nice not to think about power management at all, If I had it to do over I’d drop two of the UL-16s and free up some space in my engine room,
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:35 AM   #79
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How much power does your diesel furnace draw? My house bank is only 400ah (2x L16) and if I added some solar, it would be plenty big enough. Between just fridge and other small loads, I typically draw around 40 ah overnight. Daytime consumption is a bit higher (fridge works harder with higher temps, usually have the stereo on, etc.). So figure anywhere from 100 - 150 ah in a 24 hour period.

Do you have similar draw numbers for your current boat? And maybe a sense of how similar your draws will be on the new boat?

In my case, I end up running the generator 1 - 2 hours per day while away from shore power whether the batteries need charging or not. My galley is all electric, so the generator gets run in the morning to make coffee and use the stove or microwave. And often in the evening for galley power as well. Plus, one of those runs usually serves to warm up the hot water tank for showers. So that generator runtime (most of which can't be replaced with an inverter) plus probably 600-ish watts of solar (which I don't currently have) would make me power independent basically indefinitely even if my loads grow a bit.
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Old 10-01-2019, 09:58 AM   #80
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Weíll have three 145W panels flush mounted into the hard top. Given weíre in the Pacific NW, I wouldnít count on these as a reliable source of power.

Our goal is to run the generator once a day at anchor. But Iíd like a little buffer capacity in case weíre away canít get back on time (i.e. we leave for the day and hit 50% at 5 pm, but weíre still out-and-about).

Current boat has 1,140 Ah across 6 UL-16s (about 600 useable Ah). I installed them in 2015 and theyíre still in pretty good shape. We donít draw much power. Biggest consumers are the fridge and diesel furnace. The only reason to run the generator is hot water. While itís really nice not to think about power management at all, If I had it to do over Iíd drop two of the UL-16s and free up some space in my engine room,

You will be surprised how much those panels will help. We have long days in the summer.

We find that the biggest power drain are inverter loads. Our boat unfortunately had a very large and power hungry 120v sound system installed by the original owner. So if we listen to music (which I like to do) it sucks a lot of power. Using the inverter to charge a bunch of personal devices also can be quite a draw. I solve those issues by using 12v outlets for charging phones etc... Using my phone and a bluetooth speaker for music, and simply turning off the inverter during the day.

If you run the generator in the morning to heat water, make coffee, etc... you can get your battery bank well into the absorb phase. Then a summer day will allow your solar to get your bank topped off even with refrigerator running etc...

You do have a very large bank on your current boat. I have 4 x L16s for a nominal 780Ah. Even with my wifeís 120v C-PAP running all night as well as the diesel furnace running, not to mention the refrigerator and an auxiliary freezer, we donít get below 30% DOD.
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