enlighten me

[mark10]

Looking for info as the search begins for a new boat, wife and I love cruising , we have a 50' hatteras conv ,starting a search for a boat more suitable for our needs
We make our home in great kills ,staten island ny, have cruised from as far as naples fla to nantucket island ,
Hoping to learn and get educated , nice to be here

[menzies]

When we were boat searching last fall and winter we made a list of out "must haves," "nice to haves" and "definitely do not want."

Here is the "must have list."

Fiberglass
Between 48 and 53 feet.
Needs to be a superior brand (toughness and finish).
Raised pilothouse (not same level, not integral with the salon/galley)
Cockpit with flat step aboard access
Easily accessed swim platform
Single diesel engine or low HP diesel twins (under 250 hp each) with good burn rate
Large fuel tankage (750+, 1000 preferable)
Flybridge
1000# + davit with center console dingy
Stabilized
Protected running gear (keel below)
2 Heads
Two queen cabins preferable, one plus twin singles acceptable.
Washer/Dryer or suitable space to install
Well maintained A/C

Some "nice to haves" included:

Watermaker. Nice to have because we could fit afterwards.
Engine room and rear facing cameras - could fit afterwards
At least one sidewalk (would have put up with full width salon so long as we had the step off cockpit)
Were not too fussy on electronics as these could be fit afterwards so long as the gap was not too large.
Twin helm seats (not necessarily in PH so long as bench seat/day bed behind
DSC VHFs

Must not have (most the opposite of the above):

Large engines.
No way to easily step off the boat when docking as a couple (e.g. only steps from high up which we saw a number of times).

After a number of mis-hits we finally got most of the must haves - (e.g. not the davit size), hardly any of the nice to haves (careful here as these can be pretty expensive to buy and fit so make sure you budget appropriately). For example adding another helm chairs (STIDD in our case), and a watermaker.

[O C Diver]

Originally Posted by mark10

Looking for info as the search begins for a new boat, wife and I love cruising , we have a 50' hatteras conv ,starting a search for a boat more suitable for our needs
We make our home in great kills ,staten island ny, have cruised from as far as naples fla to nantucket island ,
Hoping to learn and get educated , nice to be here

Welcome to the forum!

Probably best to define your needs.

How big?
How many state rooms?
Range, water, fuel, extended periods away from port?
Planning on crossing an Ocean?
Price range?

Ted

[mark10]

looking at eastbay with flybridge 58or 60 maybe something else not sure yet gonna go hunt around the boat shows narrow it down , I know i like flemings and grand banks ,marlow, I love hatteras gotta see some .... I do need a boat that can move along . Wife sez she doesnt mind a 10 knt cruise I think id like something that can do both, like cat engines ,love good advice so fire away
we plan on cruising east cost and bahamas maybe great loop someday

[O C Diver]

Originally Posted by mark10

looking at eastbay with flybridge 58or 60 maybe something else not sure yet gonna go hunt around the boat shows narrow it down , I know i like flemings and grand banks ,marlow, I love hatteras gotta see some .... I do need a boat that can move along . Wife sez she doesnt mind a 10 knt cruise I think id like something that can do both, like cat engines ,love good advice so fire away
we plan on cruising east cost and bahamas maybe great loop someday

Decide if the Great Loop is a serious consideration as air draft requirements may significantly impact choices in a vessel that size. 19' is the limit for getting off Lake Michigan through Chicago.

Speed and range often bump heads. You may want to spend time determining your required range. As you shop boats, it would be important to know ranges based on fuel and speed. Ideally there's normal cruise (on top) and economic displacement speed. For each boat, can you go where you want to go, at the speed you want to travel. If the longer runs require displacement speed, how comfortable will that be.

Ted

[mark10]

range is important and the variable change 350 miles at high speed would be minimum but the more the merrier,,,, Im worried more about slow than range , Its a big step down from my 28knt cruise now to 10 ,so i need a boat that gives me both options
at 28 knts now i have a range of about 300 miles top speed about 36 knts with a load aboard , Id love to find a boat that can cruise btwn 12-18 and top out where i do know , thats why i lean toward eastbay flybridge ,No pod drives for me though so sabre and hinkley are out

[O C Diver]

Originally Posted by mark10

range is important and the variable change 350 miles at high speed would be minimum but the more the merrier,,,, Im worried more about slow than range , Its a big step down from my 28knt cruise now to 10 ,so i need a boat that gives me both options
at 28 knts now i have a range of about 300 miles top speed about 36 knts with a load aboard , Id love to find a boat that can cruise btwn 12-18 and top out where i do know , thats why i lean toward eastbay flybridge ,No pod drives for me though so sabre and hinkley are out

Speed is not my strong point in big boats. Think you need to solidify some numbers. As an example: my guess (only a guess) is that a 60' boat will not be solidly up on plane at 12 knots. Might take more like 16 knots. How much fuel capacity will it take to push the 60' boat 350 miles at 16 knots? You may find the hull shape such that below 16 knots till it's back in displacement speed, the GPM (Gallons Per Mile) is worse than at 16 knots. The reason for harping on this is how does it impact everything else on the boat from a space and weight standpoint. Others on the forum may be able to give you better numbers from experience. A 60' boat efficiently planning needs to go this fast, and will burn in the range of X GPH and X GPM.

Ted

[GFC]

+1 to Ted's comments about 60' boat speed. Mine gets up on plane and does nicely at about 17 kts and at that speed I'm running about 80% throttle at about 1700-1750 rpm's (depending on load). At 16 kts it's on plane, but tends to drop off if the boat is loaded with fuel and water.


I have not taken the boat on a long enough run at planing speed to accurately determine fuel burn but from the charts I've read of the sea trials of my boat I'd guess I'm a bit south of 1mpg, probably in the .75-.8 range.


I looked at Menzies' list of Must Haves and we have most of them, except for the engine size. 3406C Cats, turbocharged at 580hp each. At hull speed they're VERY fuel efficient, running at 10kts at 950-1000 rpm's.


The way I looked at engine size, it's going to take a certain amount of horsepower to push a heavy boat (ours weighs in around 63,500 fully loaded) at hull speed or on plane. Smaller engines have to work harder to accomplish that than a higher hp engine.

[mark10]

I think my question is starting to become in the 60 ft size what long range cruiser, trawler , or whatever category is going to give me the most speed and stability and comfort , or maybe u guys can help me narrow it down a bit
I not new to boating but I've had several but I am new to longer range cruising
I had always dreamt of a hatteras conv , now I realize I'm not gonna mak a lot of offshore fishing trips I'm more of a inshore fishin guy, so if I want tuna or Marlin I'll charter and save the mess and aggravation , but we have found we love traveling and spending extended wknds away on board , the hatteras is good but some of these others Eastbay and Fleming Marlow look way more suited to extended stays
But I don't want to be limited by speed there are times we only Hav 2 days as we are still working so cruising to Nantucket at 12 knts will burn all the time I hav other times I could throttle back lik u said and enjoy the trip slowly
So that is the dilemma , not a bad dilemma cause I enjoy learning and searching for boats , it makes me feel blessed and I meet and learn throughout the experience

[O C Diver]

An other option is to consider reduced range in a trade off for more speed. You might be happier with the fast 200 mile cruise and accept that a longer cruise requires either the slower speed or a fuel stop.

Ted

[mark10]

100% I agree can always throttle back

[O C Diver]

Here is a boat that can do what you want and give you a handle on some of the numbers.

Grand Banks 59 Aleutian RP

20 knot cruise; capable of 27 knots. I'm not in any way suggesting this as a recommendation. It doesn't get me excited. It does help me understand that pushing a nice 59' boat in the mid 20 knots range is going to take a couple thousand HP.

Ted

[menzies]

Originally Posted by GFC

The way I looked at engine size, it's going to take a certain amount of horsepower to push a heavy boat (ours weighs in around 63,500 fully loaded) at hull speed or on plane. Smaller engines have to work harder to accomplish that than a higher hp engine.

Not sure I agree with that.

My boat is 60,000 dry, probably close to 70,000 fully loaded. Cruise for my boat is 8-9 kts. In fact based on the displacement formula I top out at 9.75 kts. (1.34 X the square root of my waterline length). Obviously with current I can go faster (actually have been to 11 kts).

My engines (174 X 2) are very efficient. I get to cruise at around 1800 RPM, versus max which is 2400 RPM and continuous duty at 2200 RPM.

I understand that is displacement and not planing.

[mark10]

wow ,the alution is really nice , gotta get on one , Ive admired them dockside but never thought they had that speed ... anyone know how they are ? grand banks have been around long time
Are they good ? What are the pros vs cons?
I fully realize all boats have good and bad as well as desirable vintages, and packages .
Just wanna say I just signed up for this forum , nice folks very informative

[O C Diver]

Couldn't tell you much about them other than what was in the YW listing. There were at least 2 of them on YW. May have been the other with the factory blurb. Apparently there were several choices on engines which would obviously yield different top end speeds. Something to keep in mind if you start shopping for one.

Ted

[mark10]

yes sir already looked at the ones available in various states of dress, seems the one with c18s are some with full power and some depowered to 850hp curious why I love my cat c18s , Im not gonna jinx myself but I do love mine. Im gonna make it my buisness to check them out , thanks for heads up
Boat shopping for me is a hobby at least my wife sez so, and shes always right , took me about 3 years to find what i wanted last time and now ive been researching for about a year seriously , just hate to make a mistake !
Knowledge is power