The front fell off - Bow pulpit broke

[jhall767]

What's left

After removing the anchor and the broken half of the plank this is what's left.

Seriously considering just going to a single roller that can handle the rocna 40 or up to a 55. No bow plank. Much simpler. I've only had one issue anchoring with the rocna and that was in the ICW near pungo ferry marina where the bottom was goo. The fortress 85 didn't hold there either.

Any suggestions on brands for larger rollers?

Thanks for all the fantastic input on this site!

 

[rgano]

I think the reason anchor pulpits are built onto boats is simply to avoid scarring up the hull with anchors being lowered and raised. My personal practice is to never allow significant forces to be transmitted to the pulpit. I use a snubber from a deck cleat over the gunnel to my rode when anchored, and when prying a deeply set anchor out of the bottom, I reattach the snubber (again, over the gunnel and not the pulpit roller) when the rode is at short stay and use the boat's engine(s) to finish the job. In general, I would suggest that a broken pulpit is a sure sign of failure to understand the purpose of the thing.

 

[Turtle Blues]

Looking at your photo in post 61 it appears that there was no vertical structural support. The plywood was all in the horizontal, kind of like a diving board. Curious if the repair quote possibly included bringing supports back into the rope locker and tying it into something?

 

[AUXOPdwp]

After removing the anchor and the broken half of the plank this is what's left.

Seriously considering just going to a single roller that can handle the rocna 40 or up to a 55. No bow plank. Much simpler. I've only had one issue anchoring with the rocna and that was in the ICW near pungo ferry marina where the bottom was goo. The fortress 85 didn't hold there either.

This may be your wisest choice. The beefy anchor bracket/roller shown in your post #52 would allow you to carry the Bullwagga, that is always a top tier performer in anchor tests. https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/soft-mud-anchors-for-200-and-up Defender Marine shows brackets/rollers in excess of 30" long: https://www.defender.com/category.jsp?id=2304756&path=-1|2276108|2276122 Even if custom made, however, welding up such a bracket isn't brain surgery. Your challenge IMO is getting rid of the wood etc., so a new bracket has a solid bed and backing.



You surely want to carry whatever anchor forward enough to avoid bow chafe going down or coming up. Bullwagga is found here: Azure Marine - Bulwagga Anchors In Action You will have to decide whether 44# is adequate or whether 68# is required - I would think 44# should satisfy you, BUT, note that keeping the anchor shank as parallel/low to the seabed as possible is especially important with this anchor.



As to having only one anchor on the bow, consider carrying a folding stainless steel Northill in the locker next to your rode, as I do: see this: http://anchors.synthasite.com/northill-anchor.php


The 18# version holds same as 33# galvanized Rocna. The 27# version holds same as 55# galvanized Rocna. What's great is that they're light enough to carry to the stern if, a fore/aft rig is necessary, or into the dinghy if kedging. Dropping one under the bow to effect a "hammerlock moor" is the certain way to avoid veering back and forth in high winds. Much better than a bridle and also allows use of redundant snubbers, rather than just one.



Don

Semper Paratus

 

[jhall767]

Looking at your photo in post 61 it appears that there was no vertical structural support. The plywood was all in the horizontal, kind of like a diving board. Curious if the repair quote possibly included bringing supports back into the rope locker and tying it into something?

If I go back to one anchor the whole piece with the plywood in it would be unbolted from the boat and disposed of. Not sure if the design is really that faulty as it is probably 15 years old and didn't fail until the plywood rotted.

But I don't need the extension so hopefully the repairs will be a lot less to just repair any issues with the deck and remount the windlass there.

 

[jhall767]

This may be your wisest choice. The beefy anchor bracket/roller shown in your post #52 would allow you to carry the Bullwagga, that is always a top tier performer in anchor tests. https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/soft-mud-anchors-for-200-and-up Defender Marine shows brackets/rollers in excess of 30" long: https://www.defender.com/category.jsp?id=2304756&path=-1|2276108|2276122 Even if custom made, however, welding up such a bracket isn't brain surgery. Your challenge IMO is getting rid of the wood etc., so a new bracket has a solid bed and backing.



You surely want to carry whatever anchor forward enough to avoid bow chafe going down or coming up. Bullwagga is found here: Azure Marine - Bulwagga Anchors In Action You will have to decide whether 44# is adequate or whether 68# is required - I would think 44# should satisfy you, BUT, note that keeping the anchor shank as parallel/low to the seabed as possible is especially important with this anchor.



As to having only one anchor on the bow, consider carrying a folding stainless steel Northill in the locker next to your rode, as I do: see this: http://anchors.synthasite.com/northill-anchor.php


The 18# version holds same as 33# galvanized Rocna. The 27# version holds same as 55# galvanized Rocna. What's great is that they're light enough to carry to the stern if, a fore/aft rig is necessary, or into the dinghy if kedging. Dropping one under the bow to effect a "hammerlock moor" is the certain way to avoid veering back and forth in high winds. Much better than a bridle and also allows use of redundant snubbers, rather than just one.



Don

Semper Paratus

Thanks Don. You may have missed it but the Rocna 40 is kg so 88#. It works very well. I also have the fortress 85. Which can be disassembled and stowed. I'm not planning on going smaller with the anchor. The rocna 55 is 121 lb.

Defender doesn't appear to sell any rollers up in the 88 # range. Seems like only a few places do.

Not sure why you think a bridle, which is two separate nylon lines, would benefit from any additional snubbers. Do people add snubbers onto nylon rode?

Thanks again. All good stuff.

 

[AUXOPdwp]

Thanks Don. You may have missed it but the Rocna 40 is kg so 88#. It works very well. I also have the fortress 85. Which can be disassembled and stowed. I'm not planning on going smaller with the anchor. The rocna 55 is 121 lb.

Defender doesn't appear to sell any rollers up in the 88 # range. Seems like only a few places do.

Not sure why you think a bridle, which is two separate nylon lines, would benefit from any additional snubbers. Do people add snubbers onto nylon rode?

Thanks again. All good stuff.

No I didn't miss it, but twice in my life, I've had to weigh anchor after windlass failures. I'm a great believer in selecting the bow anchor size recommended for storm duty, which is why I replaced a 35# Delta with a 47# Excel. Without a windlass I, or my wife, will need to hoist 47# plus at least 50' chain, which I could do hand-over-hand 50 years ago, but no longer. Therefore I carry a 4:1 boom vang one end of which can be anchored to a backed pad eye on the front of my flybridge. On my Sabreline this is as close as I can get to hoisting the rode using a main mast winch as I've done aboard sailboats.

If you provisioned the same way, you'll hoist chain weight plus either 88 or 121 Lbs divided by 4. Choose your load and enjoy. My favorite mantra in Public Education classes is "Your ability to survive whatever happens out there, largely depends on your having anticipated and provisioned for it". Sometimes, someone says "ya just call SeaTow".

Don
Semper Paratus

 

[AUXOPdwp]

Not sure why you think a bridle, which is two separate nylon lines, would benefit from any additional snubbers. Do people add snubbers onto nylon rode?

Anchoring in preparation to endure unusually strong winds and/or sea forces, essentially relies on various techniques to reduce forces that may exceed your anchor's holding power, or, that may elevate your anchor's lead angle by 8 degrees or more, thus initiating a breakout. Increasing catenary, whether by deploying more scope or use of a sentinel is most effective in deep, rather than shallow, water. Yet, either of these is difficult to achieve in today's very crowded anchorages, which is why waterline level tether points are very beneficial and increasingly common.

However, the elasticity of nylon rope is always a magical solution to reduce, if not eliminate, surge loading: by using hybrid rope + chain anchor rodes, and/or, by employing riding stoppers (aka snubbers). Although the Cordage Institute does not recommend working nylon beyond 11% of the breaking load, it is necessary to do so in order to get the elasticity out of the rope that will prevent shock loads on the anchor system. Using larger diameter rope in the anchor rode or snubber(s) to retain a high safety factor can be self-defeating since the resulting lower elongation will only increase the sharpness of the loads applied to the anchor and deck gear. It is far preferable to have rope stretching, to nearly parting, than to be pulling deck cleats off, or extracting the anchor.

"Bridles" are especially relevant for multihulls (e.g. catamarans), or when needed to best orient the boat against conflicting wind versus current vectors by attaching to the bow plus a midship, or, quarter cleat. Although they can sometimes minimize veering, a hammerlock moor is far more effective. All that said, the benefit of a bridle in relieving loads on the anchor & deck gear depends entirely on it's elasticity. A 5/8" diameter rope bridle will not provide a great deal of additional elasticity to a 3/4" rope rode. On the other hand, a 1/2" snubber would.

To the extent that a bridle is desired for whatever purpose, it does not preclude also rigging another snubber to ensure elasticity, e.g. a 3/8" diameter 5' length of rope could be tied to an 8' section of rode (regardless of whether rope or chain) between the bridle-to-rode attachment and the anchor, which would prevent the rode from becoming 'bar tight' until it broke. Generally, one does not add these enhancements to an anchoring exercise unless there is a significant chance of unusually heavy loading in which case it is wise to anticipate that a 2nd snubber will make you feel like a genius after the first one parts but you're still sitting pretty.

You may find John Kettlewell's explanation better than mine here: Broken anchor snubber - Ocean Navigator - September/October 2017

Don
Semper Paratus

 

[Peter B]

After removing the anchor and the broken half of the plank this is what's left.

Seriously considering just going to a single roller that can handle the rocna 40 or up to a 55. No bow plank. Much simpler. I've only had one issue anchoring with the rocna and that was in the ICW near pungo ferry marina where the bottom was goo. The fortress 85 didn't hold there either.
Any suggestions on brands for larger rollers?
Thanks for all the fantastic input on this site!

100% agree with just having one anchor mounted at a time. Your Rocna will be fine - and that's coming from a Sarca convert. Your back-up Fortress will moulder in the lazaret. Well, it won't actually moulder, but you know what I mean.

Disagree with not replacing the damaged mount with a stout hardwood, or braced stainless steel plank. That gap in the front is just crying out for that. It's good to have some more clearance from the pointy end for there to be swing room during rough retrievals, to protect the bow from the anchor pointy end. Then you don't need fancy (expensive) stainless plating to protect it.

Mount a good roller assembly, (preferably hinged - smooths retrieval)...
https://www.marine-deals.com.au/bow...utm_term=4578572606921073&utm_content=Boating
https://www.bing.com/images/search?...ly&form=IGRE&first=1&scenario=ImageBasicHover
...at the end, and no slot in plank, with a retaining bolt that goes across the top over the shank, and Bob's yeruncle...you're good to go.

 

[Simi 60]

As you note, Simi says a sturdy arrangement. What sort of a pulpit does he have? .

12mm s/s plate mounted on 17mm marine ply screwed and glued to 25mm beach deck

This was pre purchase pics with a plough, s/s shackles and swivel, all gone now.

We run anchor through port roller and snubber through starboard.

 

[sunchaser]

12mm s/s plate mounted on 17mm marine ply screwed and glued to 25mm beach deck

This was pre purchase pics with a plough, s/s shackles and swivel, all gone now.

We run anchor through port roller and snubber through starboard.

Looks great and shows that the thousands of us without pulpits indeed have viable setups. Again though, hull shape and roller placement must be compatible.

 

[dwhatty]

12mm s/s plate mounted on 17mm marine ply screwed and glued to 25mm beach deck


Backing plate?

 

[Simi 60]

12mm s/s plate mounted on 17mm marine ply screwed and glued to 25mm beach deck


Backing plate?

Of sorts
3 inch plates on each through bolt

 

[AlanT]

Looking at your pictures reminded me of an issue. I actually had the pulpit removed from my prior boat, a Bayliner 4788, as I did not like the look, the lack of lateral strength or the additional 3' of dockage. Anyway I was able to get it out with no damage and simply had a stainless plate made to cover the area before bolting the roller to the deck/plate. I mention this because the only detriment to this arrangement was that muddy water would run back along the deck because the anchor chain at the turn was no longer forward of the deck,
and the deck sloped aft. It was a minor inconvenience to my installation but it makes me suggest that when you decide on a solution, if you make your "plank" slope forward (down) you will save yourself some washdown at the same time.
~Alan

 

[Sangraal]

What ever construction material you choose a support under the bowsprit will help. It will allow it to be lighter and not have to adsorb as much load when breaking our the anchor. I added this to my boat this spring as I had upgraded the size of anchors I wanted and felt the original very substantial bowsprit flex on removing the anchor with the hydraulic windlass.

 

[amalnak]

Since I was there and saw the bow pulpit, I saw that there was just a thin piece of plywood
that acted as a base or something to screw into. I like Datenight's idea and design, it
would be a lot more substantial than the original fiberglass design. Have the stainless
as pictured, on top, and bolt thru the deck with a backing plate of stainless underneath.

Good Luck!

 

[dotgone]

I have a symbol 557 so this one really caught my eye. I went down to the boat and checked out my setup.I have a 1/2 inch backer plate the full extent of the bow roller. I use a bridle every time I anchor to keep stress of the pulpit. my boat is an 1998 and the deck plate, backer plate to the\]e hangover portion of the bow roller . I am always leary when I have to unset a heavily buried anchor. I have a 75 lb plow anchor.
Thanks for the heads up..

 

[jhall767]

I have a symbol 557 so this one really caught my eye. I went down to the boat and checked out my setup.I have a 1/2 inch backer plate the full extent of the bow roller. I use a bridle every time I anchor to keep stress of the pulpit. my boat is an 1998 and the deck plate, backer plate to the\]e hangover portion of the bow roller . I am always leary when I have to unset a heavily buried anchor. I have a 75 lb plow anchor.
Thanks for the heads up..

Do you have the extended pulpit plank or just a roller. Single or double. Looks like the extension was either an option or aftermarket. I think someone modified it to hold two anchors later. Can you send me a couple of pictures?

Thanks

BTW any idea what's the difference between a 557 and a 558?

 

[plittle2005]

Pulpit Failure

This appear to be a 1x8 plank extending from the windlass out to the rollers, the extension covered by foam and glass. Loading is vertical and horizontal cantilever bending. The wood fracture surface appears weathered, and the ragged foam appears to have been cemented to the bulwark edge at the bottom of the pulpit.



Not much bending strength here.



A new pulpit could easily be made up of a suitably thick wood plank (approx 2"), shaped to a suitable profile, through-bolted to the deck, with a 1/4" aluminum backing plate, mounting the winch and rollers same as original.


Laminated teak material would look "shippy", and be hell-for-stout. I built mine this way out of a surplus swim platform.

 

[Datenight]

Since I was there and saw the bow pulpit, I saw that there was just a thin piece of plywood
that acted as a base or something to screw into. I like Datenight's idea and design, it
would be a lot more substantial than the original fiberglass design. Have the stainless
as pictured, on top, and bolt thru the deck with a backing plate of stainless underneath.

Good Luck!

Thanks Amalnak,

The pulpit is a double roller built out of 1/4" 316L. The deep flange around the perimeter added a great deal of strength. If you look closely at photo 4 in post 10 you will see the strut adding additional support. I glassed 1/2" plywood to the underside of the foredeck and had stainless backing plates for the bolts.

The boat went to Portland, Maine in 2012 so I have no current photos.

Rob

 

[Peter B]

A new pulpit could easily be made up of a suitably thick wood plank (approx 2"), shaped to a suitable profile, through-bolted to the deck, with a 1/4" aluminum backing plate, mounting the winch and rollers same as original.

Laminated teak material would look "shippy", and be hell-for-stout. I built mine this way out of a surplus swim platform.

This was basically my recommendation as well.

 

[lady sue]

We had an instance after Sandy smashed the bow pulpit on a 35" cruiser. It was repaired but the fiberglass guy told the owner never to put over 75 pounds on it, i.e. don't stand on it for fear of collapse.
Jim Ferry, Mainship I 1980

 

[rslifkin]

We had an instance after Sandy smashed the bow pulpit on a 35" cruiser. It was repaired but the fiberglass guy told the owner never to put over 75 pounds on it, i.e. don't stand on it for fear of collapse.
Jim Ferry, Mainship I 1980

I would have considered that an unacceptable repair. To me, if the pulpit can't handle a person standing out at the end, or a heavy anchor in rough seas, or the force of breaking an anchor out of the bottom, then it's just not strong enough.

 

[Cartouche]

I have a 58 Symbol with dual anchors. This weekend the bow pulpit broke in two. No real stress - we hadn't even set the anchor. Just gave out after 20 years I guess. The anchors are a Rocna 40 and a fortress 85.

My marina said they'd have to fabricate a new pulpit and it would cost about $15,000. That seems high. Trying to figure out the best way to proceed. If I'm spending that much money I want to see if I can improve on the design.

And yes we were displaying an anchor ball!

Thanks

Sure its the result of over tightening the anchor with the Windlass

 

[jhall767]

Sure its the result of over tightening the anchor with the Windlass

I'm not "sure" what you mean?

 

[Cartouche]

I'm not "sure" what you mean?

Brining the anchor to tight with windlass when Hauling in the anchor, rather than stopping just before it tightens and tightening the last bit by hand

 

[rslifkin]

Brining the anchor to tight with windlass when Hauling in the anchor, rather than stopping just before it tightens and tightening the last bit by hand

No need to pull the last bit home by hand. Just make sure the clutch isn't set too tight. When you pull the chain tight to let the boat motion break the anchor out or when you pull the anchor home, the clutch should slip. It shouldn't allow the windlass to develop full pulling power (both to avoid stalling the windlass motor and to avoid damaging things).

 

[OldDan1943]

Without a backing plate of equal or greater size, the problem is not fixed