Aluminum Trawlers - Pros and Cons

[David Ess]

Inconsequent......not only CAN alu work, but it DOES work almost all the time...except where people DONT account for, and take precautions for potential problems that everybody alreadybknows about. Any idea of how many of all those thousands of alu fishing boats in the pacific NW have 'disolved'? No? Dodnt think so. What about all the others all over the world? No? Didnt think so. Your comment is like saying that you'd never get a steel boat because if you dont apply a coating it will rust.

 

[DDW]

DDW, good thing i didnt say it was 'perfect', right? So that comment of yours is as invslid as the supposed problems with alu.

Good thing I didn't say you said it was 'perfect'. But you did say:

Alu is wonderful.
...
Basically , there are no valid cons about alu boats.

That description is tantamount to 'perfect'.

There are plenty of valid cons about aluminum, just as there are about any boatbuilding material. So your characterization remains nonsense. If it were the cheapest, most durable, lightest weight, least maintenance, strongest, and stiffest material, all boats would be built from it. It isn't all of those things (in fact, it isn't any of those things), and so most boats are built from something else. A great material for some design briefs, a very poor material for others.

 

[David Ess]

DDW.........All the ...cons...were rebutted, like the one that they dissolve. And .....wonderful....is not a synonym for perfect. Nor did I say it was cheapest or stongest, etc. Nor would anybody expect any single hull material to be used for every boat out there...so that comment is invalid too. I just checked with the America Cup committee and they say they will never consider steel hulls. This forum is mainly about trawlers/passagemakers, etc, and for those alu is indeed wonderful on many counts.

 

[BoatBoay]

I found the steel trawler thread interesting and thought aluminum could use its own.



the biggest problem with alloy (aluminum) for a trawler is it is a "light weight" material for a "slow speed" Boat. paint is almost impossible to keep looking good on it. If you don't believe me just go to the big Florida boat shows and look at any of the "high end" alloy boats and look at them closely and you can see what i am talking about. Steel will actually hold paint better than aluminum and has other good qualities, that is why the big mega yachts are built out of it. the down side to steel is the "bleeding" rust that can appear after a crossing where the boat flexes a bit and things like the teak caps move. FRP has solved several of these issues. paint sticks great to it, it isn't going to corode out from under you if your neighbors boat develops a problem and it doesn't rust. Not unlike the rest, FRP has to be done correctly with the proper materials, which all builders don't do.

 

[David Ess]

I found the steel trawler thread interesting and thought aluminum could use its own.



the biggest problem with alloy (aluminum) for a trawler is it is a "light weight" material for a "slow speed" Boat. paint is almost impossible to keep looking good on it. If you don't believe me just go to the big Florida boat shows and look at any of the "high end" alloy boats and look at them closely and you can see what i am talking about. Steel will actually hold paint better than aluminum and has other good qualities, that is why the big mega yachts are built out of it. the down side to steel is the "bleeding" rust that can appear after a crossing where the boat flexes a bit and things like the teak caps move. FRP has solved several of these issues. paint sticks great to it, it isn't going to corode out from under you if your neighbors boat develops a problem and it doesn't rust. Not unlike the rest, FRP has to be done correctly with the proper materials, which all builders don't do.

The paint was was already dealt with. That it doesnt hold paint easily is just fine.....for those who are happy to never have to paint it! Its wonderful to know how much time and effort and money youll save. No blistering, no polishing either.

"Corrode under you"...also rebutted. They wont corrode if youre responsible enough to keep up the measures that prevent that.

Mega yachts? Many are aluminum, and so are many big navy ships

"Steel bleeding"? Did you know its generally considered that with modern coatings, steel boats only need painting about every 10 years?

And "light weight for slow speed"? Its not even clear what that could mean. An alu boat can go as slow as you like.

 

[BoatBoay]

The paint was was already dealt with. That it doesnt hold paint easily is just fine.....for those who are happy to never have to paint it! Its wonderful to know how much time and effort and money youll save. No blistering, no polishing either.

"Corrode under you"...also rebutted. They wont corrode if youre responsible enough to keep up the measures that prevent that.

Mega yachts? Many are aluminum, and so are many big navy ships

"Steel bleeding"? Did you know its generally considered that with modern coatings, steel boats only need painting about every 10 years?

And "light weight for slow speed"? Its not even clear what that could mean. An alu boat can go as slow as you like.

There are a lot of great aluminum boats out there. That doesn't change any of the simple facts. i can destroy any of them by dropping copper ends of wires into the bilge with salt water in it. go visit the big boat repair yards and do some research. As long as you, as has been said, don't care about the paint and can do all the prevention required to make sure that you don't have the electrical issues than they are a great boat for you. There is a school here in the Pacific NW that has done a real study on this as well as other issues related to boats. The repair yards that work on these boats also have several great stories of big issues with these boats. if you love your boar than that is great, but don't miss lead people that are asking serious questions about getting a boat and than they find out that it requires a lot more attention to what is happening than just go boating and have fun. there is a real reason that most of the boats are made from FRP and it isn't the cost, it is the ease of maintenance.

 

[David Ess]

There are a lot of great aluminum boats out there. That doesn't change any of the simple facts. i can destroy any of them by dropping copper ends of wires into the bilge with salt water in it. go visit the big boat repair yards and do some research. As long as you, as has been said, don't care about the paint and can do all the prevention required to make sure that you don't have the electrical issues than they are a great boat for you. There is a school here in the Pacific NW that has done a real study on this as well as other issues related to boats. The repair yards that work on these boats also have several great stories of big issues with these boats. if you love your boar than that is great, but don't miss lead people that are asking serious questions about getting a boat and than they find out that it requires a lot more attention to what is happening than just go boating and have fun. there is a real reason that most of the boats are made from FRP and it isn't the cost, it is the ease of maintenance.[/QU


Sounds like you dont know what metal boats owners do to prevent idiots from throughing copper into thier bilge! Bexcareful if you try it! Then too there is the normal remediation that all metal boat owners know about. PNW? Tons of alu boats there, in salt water....decade after decade and still fine. Most boats are plastic....because theyre cheaper. Pray you not one of the boaters that hits that container or log or floating fridge !

 

[Xsbank]

My boat was built in 1975. Except that I haven't been up to see her for a week, do you think she might have dissolved since then? Now you've got me concerned.

Oh, by the way? I can destroy a fibreglass boat with a match.

Does that help or hinder Boatboay's argument?

This is past silly, take a powder and enjoy Christmas. Merry Christmas!

 

[boatpoker]

I'm a fan of aluminium I wish we could afford one of Dashews amazing boats however ... I believe only two types of people should own such cruising boats, those with an open cheque book and those who are Marine Corrosion Certified. Even an open chequebook can't always get a qualified electrician in out of the way places in short order.

There are few boaters I have met that are competent enough to do electrical work on an aluminium cruiser. I have seen tremendous damage done by those that thought they knew what they were doing.

 

[Simi 60]

There are a lot of great aluminum boats out there. That doesn't change any of the simple facts. i can destroy any of them by dropping copper ends of wires into the bilge with salt water in it. go visit the big boat repair yards and do some research. As long as you, as has been said, don't care about the paint and can do all the prevention required to make sure that you don't have the electrical issues than they are a great boat for you. There is a school here in the Pacific NW that has done a real study on this as well as other issues related to boats. The repair yards that work on these boats also have several great stories of big issues with these boats. if you love your boar than that is great, but don't miss lead people that are asking serious questions about getting a boat and than they find out that it requires a lot more attention to what is happening than just go boating and have fun. there is a real reason that most of the boats are made from FRP and it isn't the cost, it is the ease of maintenance.

I did repairs on a brand new multi million dollar superyacht back in the 80s that after a 3000nm delivery not long after launch had us chopping a several metre section out of both sides around the exhaust area - can't remember the cause, just remember taking to someone's shiny new toy with a circular saw.

Saw another alloy vessel in a marina with bubbles around the waterline looking much like an aspro.

Saying that I have built and worked on countless others that seemed to have no real issue.

 

[David Ess]

I did repairs on a brand new multi million dollar superyacht back in the 80s that after a 3000nm delivery not long after launch had us chopping a several metre section out of both sides around the exhaust area - can't remember the cause, just remember taking to someone's shiny new toy with a circular saw.

Saw another alloy vessel in a marina with bubbles around the waterline looking much like an aspro.

Saying that I have built and worked on countless others that seemed to have no real issue.

For every anecdote of people that DIDNT take care of their boats, we can give more anecdotes of those who DID. You must have seen those alu boats that were just fine...decade after decade after decade.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Aluminum (and steel) has its advantages...and disadvantages.

One of the main reasons for building in Al is ease of custom construction, unlike FRP no mold is needed, and molds are costly to build and maintain. Aluminum and steel also have advantages in ease of repair and fire resistance.

As others have pointed out, its greatest Achilles' heel is susceptibility to galvanic or dissimilar metal corrosion. Only two other metals are more corrosion-prone, magnesium and zinc, aluminum, when in contact with every other metal, and an electrolyte (water or even atmospheric moisture) will sacrificially corrode. I tell clients who own, or are contemplating owning, an Al vessel, you need to be part metallurgist to do so successfully, and to avoid being frightened or misled by dockside sages who claim to understand corrosion. Most, even many industry pro's, haven't a clue as to how corrosion works (when they offer an answer, ask them to draw a diagram showing movement of ion and electrons), so you need to be your own expert to some extent as the internet, and docks are rife with anecdotal misinformation.

Here's a good albeit unusual example, a few years ago an Al yacht, built by a reputable EU builder, was equipped during the build with a water purification system that used injection of silver ions. The potable water tanks were aluminum and integral with the hull. Within a year the tanks, and hull, began to perforate, the result of galvanic corrosion caused by the far more noble silver. The builder and the water purification system manufacturer would have, one would think, known about this incompatibility...

Given the choice, aluminum is far better off unpainted, paint is unnecessary for corrosion protection, and can and often does exacerbate corrosion when water enters even the smallest breach.

More on aluminum corrosion https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/understanding-and-preventing-aluminum-corrosion/

More on (the folly of) paint and aluminum https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/paint-and-aluminum-how-to-ensure-a-good-mix-2/

 

[Hobbit]

We have a 57' aluminum yacht built in 1968 that has been epoxy barrier coated below the waterline and is still in excellent condition...no corrosion issues. we have owned for 9 years now topsides were last painted in 1999 with awlgrip paint. We are currently in the process of repainting topsides with Endura 2 part epoxy paint which is making it look like new again. Will be doing the grey hull portion in 2021 as weather allows.
This was a one off boat custom built by Palmer Johnson in 1968, the interior metalwork has no signs of corrosion and had the hull sounded in spring haulout and plates were as new. Very seaworthy and with proper upkeep should be good for another 50 years.

 

[David Ess]

Hobbit...exactly, and it didnt 'dissolve, as some keep saying will, but is fine......decade after decade after decade.

 

[MVDarlin]

Fizzies

There is a reason aluminum boats are called dizzies.

 

[David Ess]

There is a reason aluminum boats are called dizzies.

You mean because you get dizzy in delight knowing youll never have to paint or polish above waterline, and that it will outlive you?

 

[Screaming04]

Given the rarity of aluminum-hulled boats frequenting salt waters, ... ???

All commercial fish boats built in the last 40 years are aluminum(pnw) what’s rare about them?

Absolutely zero deck leaks! No rot, nothing punky or soft around the windows, decks etc.

Paint doesn’t really stick to aluminum so raw is best, however, raw aluminum is not pretty... that’s about the only negative.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

All commercial fish boats built in the last 40 years are aluminum(pnw) what’s rare about them?

Absolutely zero deck leaks! No rot, nothing punky or soft around the windows, decks etc.

Paint doesn’t really stick to aluminum so raw is best, however, raw aluminum is not pretty... that’s about the only negative.

Almost all "small" (less than 50-60'?) new workboats of any sort in North America are aluminum these days, be they for patrol/rescue, harbor use, fishing, tendering, etc. What do they know that we don't?

 

[Chris Leigh-Jones]

Have buddy boated, done cockpit hours, done tours and sailed many Al BWBs. K&M, Garcias, Boreals, Alubat, Kanters and one offs. These boats go RTW. They’re used as full time cruising boats. They are built right. Outfitted correctly for Al and some (K&M) are drop dead beautiful. Truly “finest kind” and “Bristol fashion “. I’d feel truly blessed to own one. Especially a K & M. Find it unfortunate that other than Kanter, Artnautica and Arksen I’m unaware of any series production Al LRCs motor vessels suitable for mom and pop cruisers like myself. Search yacht world near daily but just don’t see them. Can anyone offer advice as how to find one?

I can try - Dicky Boats in NZ make a 58 foot boat designed by Artnautica and I think a yard in Netherlands made to the same design. Circa just launched an 85 foot boat to their own design (beautifully made), Naval Yachts have launched Mobius a 78 foot explorer yacht for their clients Wayne and Christine and have another 78 under construction and an 85 foot on order, both Artnautica designs again. Arksen - building an 85 foot, slick operation. a couple of yards are also building aluminium sails boats for the same market. For the extreme try Metal Shark in the US, they have an aluminium Cat design. Hope this helps.

 

[Chris Leigh-Jones]

Does anyone have a cunning suggestion for how to persuade a clever female that bare aluminium has its own attractions? My lovely wife is in to interior design, colors and God knows what, keeps insisting we paint it. I really like the "used fishing boat" look, you can hide in the crowd and zero maintenance. So - suggestions needed????

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Perhaps pointing her to all the aluminum boats in commercial and government service which remain unpainted, and insinuating there is a reason why?

Or maybe not :lol:

 

[Bkay]

Does anyone have a cunning suggestion for how to persuade a clever female that bare aluminium has its own attractions? My lovely wife is in to interior design, colors and God knows what, keeps insisting we paint it.

Painting wood and polishing fiberglass was a big part of what persuaded me to avoid painting my aluminum boat. Maybe she just needs more time on a buffer or paintbrush (kidding, just kidding...sort of).

BTW - my wife is an interior designer, I involved her heavily in interior design decisions, both the technical and aesthetic issues. Just because the outside is purely functional, no reason the interior can't be as comfortable as you desire.

 

[BandB]

Does anyone have a cunning suggestion for how to persuade a clever female that bare aluminium has its own attractions? My lovely wife is in to interior design, colors and God knows what, keeps insisting we paint it. I really like the "used fishing boat" look, you can hide in the crowd and zero maintenance. So - suggestions needed????

I suggest you very carefully re-read your post and how, while I'm sure not intended, very condescending to her. The entire assumption she is the one who needs convincing. Acting like you're working against each other on this. Perhaps if you worked together you'd find a compromise that worked for both of you, but either/or will always lose. Her enjoyment and your enjoyment are both equally important. Perhaps you get the exterior and she gets the interior. Perhaps you get below the gunwale as plain and she gets above painted, colors of her choice. Just the context of working against each other is so defeating when you could be working with each other toward a common goal.

For either spouse to ask a public forum to help them convince the other is just not right.

 

[dannc]

Does anyone have a cunning suggestion for how to persuade a clever female that bare aluminium has its own attractions? My lovely wife is in to interior design, colors and God knows what, keeps insisting we paint it. I really like the "used fishing boat" look, you can hide in the crowd and zero maintenance. So - suggestions needed????

This is hard.

My clever wifey does not like unpainted aluminum either.

I like unpainted because:

• Low initial cost.
• Low or no maintenance.
• Low future expense.
• Don't care if it gets banged up
• For a power boat, it makes the boat not stand out so much, and maybe look like a government boat, which could be good or bad.

She wants painted because it looks good and I agree with her. However, my list over rides looking good as far as I am concerned.

We have been going around and around on this for years but I think my wifey has finally decide that unpainted is bearable. I don't think she likes it, but agrees with the list, for the most part.

I think what has sent her over to the unpainted side, is the idea of having to pay tens of thousands of dollars to paint the boat initially, AND in the future.

One compromise we might make is to paint the above deck structure a very visible color.

It really is a tough decision. To paint or not to paint is a compromise.

Later,
Dan

 

[BandB]

This is hard.

My clever wifey does not like unpainted aluminum either.

I like unpainted because:

• Low initial cost.
• Low or no maintenance.
• Low future expense.
• Don't care if it gets banged up
• For a power boat, it makes the boat not stand out so much, and maybe look like a government boat, which could be good or bad.

She wants painted because it looks good and I agree with her. However, my list over rides looking good as far as I am concerned.

We have been going around and around on this for years but I think my wifey has finally decide that unpainted is bearable. I don't think she likes it, but agrees with the list, for the most part.

I think what has sent her over to the unpainted side, is the idea of having to pay tens of thousands of dollars to paint the boat initially, AND in the future.

One compromise we might make is to paint the above deck structure a very visible color.

It really is a tough decision. To paint or not to paint is a compromise.

Later,
Dan

Wifey B: Unpainted is fugly.

However, I'd be fine with it. We've chosen on glass to have basic white hull colors where possible with minimum maintenance. People find it odd that I'm not driven by looks but by use. I can get all the color I need with upholstery and wall decor.

On the other hand....teak. I'm a teakofanatic. :lol: It's just nicer to walk on and done right from new it's not as big a pain as made out to be. I don't have to have it on bulwarks and rails, but I do on decks. And we've tested all the immo and fake teaks too. On our patio by the pool, laid many out and tested. Not the same.

Just don't try the dictatorship or benevolent dictator crap on your spouses though. It's a partnership and you must jointly agree and that doesn't mean pushing the other over to your side. It means compromise.

 

[OldDan1943]

Dont need an excuse. Tell her the truth. It will cost lots of money and time. Get an estimate and suggest the cost of the exterior painting might cut into her interior decorating budget. Suggest, maybe in a couple of years but right now, getting the boat ready for sea is more important.

Generally speaking, painting a boat properly necessitates removing the windows and after painting, reseating the windows.

It is neither cunning nor an excuse. It's the truth.

 

[Screaming04]

Show her the peeling paint on my boat.

 

[Screaming04]

I suggest you very carefully re-read your post and how, while I'm sure not intended, very condescending to her. The entire assumption she is the one who needs convincing. Acting like you're working against each other on this. Perhaps if you worked together you'd find a compromise that worked for both of you, but either/or will always lose. Her enjoyment and your enjoyment are both equally important. Perhaps you get the exterior and she gets the interior. Perhaps you get below the gunwale as plain and she gets above painted, colors of her choice. Just the context of working against each other is so defeating when you could be working with each other toward a common goal.

For either spouse to ask a public forum to help them convince the other is just not right.

Ugh! Paint peels on aluminum, drop the sensitivities…

 

[darkside]

Just get the pictures in good light.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

I can't blame her, only a gearhead can love unpainted aluminum.

Cost of ownership is the clincher, while that doesn't make it any prettier, think how good it will feel for both of you to not fret every time you come dockside, like every other owner of a painted/gelcoated hull.

Paint and aluminum are a temporary affair, it requires considerable upkeep to prevent lifting and poultice corrosion. More here https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/paint-and-aluminum-how-to-ensure-a-good-mix-2/