Are twin diesels worth more than a single?

[ljk]

Theoretical question. Let’s ay we have 2 identical boats, maybe 15 years old. The single diesel boat has a value of $100,000. The twin version has, maybe, a third more horsepower, say 300hp for the single v. 400 hp total for the twins.

How much would the twin diesel version of the same boat be worth?

 

[slowgoesit]

Oh dear lord, here we go again!

 

[slowgoesit]

It boils down to personal likes/dislikes, intended use, etc.

 

[rslifkin]

I'd say it depends on the boat. Depending on hull design, the extra power may be a benefit or it may not be. And depending on the running gear design / layout, one setup may have a shallower draft, better prop protection, etc. And then there's equipment layout internally, as far as which is easier to maintain.

 

[DavidM]

Well, it certainly costs more to build a boat with twins and 30% more hp than the single version. Maybe $30,000 more for the case you cited: two somewhat less expensive engines vs one, and double the cost of prop shaft, prop and rudder and a bit more for installation, filters, etc.

Two examples with which I am familiar are the Mainship 34T trawler and the Mainship Pilot 34 both of which were available with a single Yanmar 370 or twin Yanmar 240s.

$30,000 represents approximately 10% of the new boat cost and in my very limited experience used twins sell for about 10% more than the equivalent single.

Makes sense. New builders sell twins because there is a market for them and they have to price them to recover the extra costs. So if there is a market that supports a 10% premium for new, there will also be a market that supports about the same premium for used boats.

David

 

[caltexflanc]

Diesels, transmissions and drive train components (shaft, prop, etc) are very expensive, so that alone makes the monetary worth, everything else being equal, higher for the twin. It's simple arithmetic.

 

[moparharn]

I'll bite

Sounds like you are looking at a mainship. Some people feel there is additional security in a second engine. This is a somewhat valid point if you are making very long crossings or short trips through treacherous water or inlets. If the single has a bow thruster or possibly even a stern thruster as well there is no maneuvering advantage to twins. You will burn more fuel with twins, twice the upkeep, filters, oil, etc. A properly maintained single will be what I want. I would not value a twin over a high quality single. If the twin has a crowded engine room I would not consider it. If the twin boat has a dirty improperly maintained engine room and the single is spotless I would value the single much higher. I assume you are looking a Yanmars 6 vs 4's. A Yanmar 6 worked hard versus a pair of 4's not worked as hard would steer me towards the 4's. My personal opinion is the the Yanmar 6 is not durable as the Cummins, Deere, or some Cats. It is a lighter engine and I have friends who have had short lived 6's. So in the end is all matters what boat these engines are in. Is there room? Is the hull displacement? What motors? How cared for? etc.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

A little different twist on the old question.

My guess is that a twin is probably a bit more pricey than a single, but really not that much by the time the boat has aged fifteen years.

pete

 

[RT Firefly]

Condition, condition, condition...

 

[Frosty]

Diesels, transmissions and drive train components (shaft, prop, etc) are very expensive, so that alone makes the monetary worth, everything else being equal, higher for the twin. It's simple arithmetic.

I can see that when buying new, because the purchase price is basically arithmetic. But I think this is about what they add to the value of a used boat, over and above the "same exact" used boat with a single. Then maybe not pure arithmetic (wouldn't that be nice though, as a seller, for the cost of upgrades you've made ).

The trawlers I was looking at pre-Covid came either way (same size engine but two of them). My guess just from shopping is that the value was close to equal, or maybe a tich less for the singles. However, I was looking at boats from around 1975-1985 build years, so after 40 years it's (to me anyway) more about condition. (OP I know you said all else being equal.)

Maybe on newer boats it's closer to a strict percentage?

 

[alormaria]

I've heard the only times you need twin engines are when you are buying a boat or selling it.

 

[koliver]

Theoretical question. Let’s ay we have 2 identical boats, maybe 15 years old. The single diesel boat has a value of $100,000. The twin version has, maybe, a third more horsepower, say 300hp for the single v. 400 hp total for the twins.

How much would the twin diesel version of the same boat be worth?

My son went through that comparison before buying his present Monaro 27.
The market had single and twin gas and single and twin diesel. The prices, not surprisingly went from single gas to twin diesel. More than doubling from bottom to top.
Other factors, especially condition, at play at the same time.

 

[ljk]

Thanks for all the replies. It seems like the higher price for twins in a new boat is based upon the additional cost of the second power train.

However, as the boat gets older, that additional price will decrease based upon the likes/dislikes of particular buyers?

Does this seem right?

 

[Nomad Willy]

RT is right
But assuming same condition ...
Twins will be worth more everywhere but on TF.

 

[caltexflanc]

I've heard the only times you need twin engines are when you are buying a boat or selling it.

You were listening to the wrong people then. If you want to go faster in other than on a full displacement boat you ultimately will need them.

If you are for some reason concerned about what with happen if an engine has a catastrophic failure you will want two engines (maybe not twins per se)

So there's two things you didn't hear....

 

[Turtle Blues]

Personal preference in first look at listings was that I applied the 10% add DM cited. Probably was already biased in favor of twins though, just used it to justify the higher price.

 

[Dougcole]

Mainship 400s (which is what I am guessing you are looking at) with twins generally bring about 15% more on the used market than singles. That can easily be wiped out by the overall condition of the boat, age, how it is equipped etc. But if the two boats were exactly the same in all respects, the twin version would be worth more money, beyond the shadow of a doubt. Of course it also was more expensive when it was new, so take that for what it is worth.

 

[Nomad Willy]

There were some boats in the 70’s built w singles in the 36 to 42’ range w one engine. Being rare and the boat being a trawler those single engined boats will probably get more money now.

But most trawlers in the early days of the 70’s and 80’s the bigger question is how much power does one want as the builders were (for some unknown reason) stuck on the FL6. And fuel wasn’t expensive.
So for the most part it really wasn’t one or two engines but 120 or 240hp.

 

[tiltrider1]

Some times boat prices are based off of perception more than reality. Most the time the public perceives twins as a maneuvering advantage creating a higher resale value. However, some boats are perceived as long distance, fuel efficient, low maintenance, in this case public perception would view twins as a disadvantage and the reasle value would be less for the twin.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

I hate to drag this thread into another "taboo" subject area but in my opinion you can't enter into a discussion of singles vs twins without getting into Gas vs diesel.

I am definitely a single diesel guy. I won't badmouth a twin set up, particularly in a smaller boat (less than 35 feet) powered by a pair of gassers.

pete

 

[firehoser75]

Several other issues including engine room space and layout to enable maintenance. While on that subject, the cost of maintenance is double with twins, and you can expect repair costs to be higher as well (2 of everything to break).
Also, there are some buyers who don't want twins (some don't want singles either) so maybe for an older boat there might not be that much of a price difference (would depend on the exact model I would think)??
To me, condition and maintenance records gain in importance the older the boat (unless of course you like the idea of a "project boat").

 

[mvweebles]

Occasionally, PAE has built a Nordhavn with twin engines. A few N57s come to mind. Pretty sure these twins are less desirable and less valuable than a single with get home. I believe there was a recent thread on an early KK42 with twin engines.thaf would be a very tough sell.

But as others have suggested, twins probably call a premium. There is a subgroup of experienced trawler owners who simply don't want a twin for a variety of reasons so the value of a twin is negative, but for the lost part, the market has more people who find twins a benefit than not.

Peter

 

[Phyrcooler]

My experience, having bought and sold a Mainship 390, is that - assuming boat conditions and other factors being equal, a twin (2001) was running only 5% to maybe slightly more of a premium. All the pros and cons that are argued have some validity. I think the value also comes down to ER layout and other related options. Eg: a good single with a strong bow thruster was worth nearly equal what a twin was. In regards to layout, the twins on mine created a nightmare of access issues for maintenance, both on the engines, as well as other co-located systems. But, having been in other engine rooms with twins... I wasn’t the only one cursing!! We’ve gone back to sailing... but if I ever go back to the power side, I would be strongly leaning towards a single. Or twins housed in a giant ER!!

 

[rslifkin]

For the ER thing, it really depends on the boat. When you look at where tanks and other equipment are places, sometimes it's clear the boat was designed for twins, sometimes they're clearly an afterthought and access is a challenge. Size of boat isn't necessarily a huge factor there.

 

[Phyrcooler]

For the ER thing, it really depends on the boat. When you look at where tanks and other equipment are places, sometimes it's clear the boat was designed for twins, sometimes they're clearly an afterthought and access is a challenge. Size of boat isn't necessarily a huge factor there.

Agreed. But often it’s just lazy, crappy design/engineering. The fact that some manufacturers are almost criminal in their laziness is frustrating. Such as installing fixtures, plumbing and electrical prior to deck install or other finishing close out - and providing zero access to stuff you KNOW WILL need access to someday!!

(It’s not just a Mainship thing! Many American manufacturers in the 90’s - 2000’s displayed a similar lack of give a sh!t)

 

[BDofMSP]

RT is right
But assuming same condition ...
Twins will be worth more everywhere but on TF.

That's one of the funnier things I've read in some time!
BD

 

[Codger2]

.Twins will be worth more everywhere but on TF.

Eric, I don't know if you're serious or kidding but I think you are absolutely correct! The only single engine boat I ever had was SeaHorse II and she also had a bow thruster. I could put that boat anywhere with ease. My OA came with a pair of Yanmar 440s and a bow thruster. I have to admit that I could maneuver the little boat much better than the OA.

 

[Seevee]

Mainship 400s (which is what I am guessing you are looking at) with twins generally bring about 15% more on the used market than singles. That can easily be wiped out by the overall condition of the boat, age, how it is equipped etc. But if the two boats were exactly the same in all respects, the twin version would be worth more money, beyond the shadow of a doubt. Of course it also was more expensive when it was new, so take that for what it is worth.

Agreed.... same condition, twin is worth a bit more. Found this out when shopping for my Mainship. However, regardless of the cost, there are a lot of die hards out there that would only have a single.

 

[Beaverlake]

GB is another brand that has both single and twin configs. FWIW, from a maint perspective and with coastal cruising in the PAC NW if/when we down size my first choice would be a single diesel (assuming a clean, well laid out engine room). There are a number of newer boats (Sabre, Backwater, etc.) with singles that can move when needed. Greenline has singles w/optional hybrid drives. Etc. And the observation that condition matters really is spot on; crappy twin vs Bristol single with thruster - you’ll pay more for the single and rightly so.

 

[ddw36]

I'm questioning that you can't depend on a single engine not malfunctioning on a long cruise. I've read many times that if its fuel is kept clean and oil changed regularly, that it will run indefinitely. I've read of one engine running continuously for two years. I'm talking just about the engine, of course. So, why shouldn't one go on a voyage w/ only one engine? I believe many do.