Send me your credit card and driver's license

[angus99]

I bought an AIS antenna from an online marine warehouse yesterday. This morning, I received the following email.


"Order #3507 has been flagged as high risk for fraud. I am unable to process this order until I have verified the credit card used in this transaction. Please send me a copy of the front of the credit card with the name matching that on the order and a copy of your drivers license with the address matching the billing address on the order and attached to the credit card. Until I receive this information from you I am unable to process your transaction. If you prefer I can send you information to pay via wire transfer. Please let me know how you would like to proceed. Thank you for your cooperation and understanding that this is our policy in order to protect all our customers."


At first I thought they'd been hacked, so I called the number listed on their website. The guy I talked to assured me the request was from his company and couldn't understand why I objected to emailing my credit card and driver's license to him. I told him my credit card wasn't even used for the purchase . . . I used the PayPal link on their site. He said I wouldn't believe the amount of PayPal fraud that goes on, to which I replied "then why do you offer it as an option?" He had no answer.

I've bought many thousands of dollars worth of boating gear on line using PayPal and have never had an issue like this. Needless to say, I immediately cancelled the purchase and will never do business with them again. Anyone else have an experience like this?

[ksanders]

Originally Posted by angus99

I bought an AIS antenna from an online marine warehouse yesterday. This morning, I received the following email.


"Order #3507 has been flagged as high risk for fraud. I am unable to process this order until I have verified the credit card used in this transaction. Please send me a copy of the front of the credit card with the name matching that on the order and a copy of your drivers license with the address matching the billing address on the order and attached to the credit card. Until I receive this information from you I am unable to process your transaction. If you prefer I can send you information to pay via wire transfer. Please let me know how you would like to proceed. Thank you for your cooperation and understanding that this is our policy in order to protect all our customers."


At first I thought they'd been hacked, so I called the number listed on their website. The guy I talked to assured me the request was from his company and couldn't understand why I objected to emailing my credit card and driver's license to him. I told him my credit card wasn't even used for the purchase . . . I used the PayPal link on their site. He said I wouldn't believe the amount of PayPal fraud that goes on, to which I replied "then why do you offer it as an option?" He had no answer.

I've bought many thousands of dollars worth of boating gear on line using PayPal and have never had an issue like this. Needless to say, I immediately cancelled the purchase and will never do business with them again. Anyone else have an experience like this?

I'm a paypal merchant and do a lot of business using Paypal

If you are a paypal member, and are verified, which most people that have ever
Used paypal are, then the merchant is safe. The only time paypal flags a transaction is if something fishy is going on with the buyer, then paypal will say "do not ship" on the transaction while they figure it out.

This sounds to me like a small business that is overly parinoid.
The beauty of paypal is that the merchant never sees your credit card information. Do Not ever send a paypal merchant your CC information.

[angus99]

My thoughts exactly, ksanders. To even ask someone to send images of their CC and DL via email ranks as one of the most clueless things I've ever seen online.

[mbevins]

I won't even send complete credit card information to a legitimate company.
I always break up the information into 2-3 different emails. Sometimes I even send the segment using different email addresses. Unless of course they're set up to receive it securely.

As to PayPal, if I use that, there's no way in hell he's getting my CC information, defeats the purpose of PayPal.

[BandB]

i would go one step further and report them to Paypal. I would bet this violates Paypals rules. I'm wondering if there is an issue between Paypal and the Merchant. Perhaps the Merchant's lost their account or trying to process outside of Paypal.

I'm with mbevins on legit merchants. In fact, I greatly prefer ordering online vs giving the information on the phone. When we take a phone order, we prefer to then email them a link to allow them to make the payment. Our store employees normally never hold a credit card, never have the information from one. We do see the last four digits. If the customer insists on giving them the information on the phone, they have to fill out an internal exception report. It basically says that they received the information and entered it and never wrote it down. It goes as a manual processing and does get extra review.

[Seevee]

Wow, that's pretty strong to request that, and there's no way I'd do that. And, I'd find another vendor. Good for you, angus99, that sounds crazy.

I don't use PayPal and hate them. They are a PITA and laden with fraud and lawsuits and I wan't no part of it. Just google PayPal lawsuits... you'll have more than you can read in a life time. Don't get me started about them.

My profile is to use a CC that has just enough credit on it to do my normal purchases, and if someone steals it and I get stuck, it will be minimal. That's never happened.

And, yes, only use companies that I can verify as legit.

Works for me.....

[angus99]

Yeah, something doesn't smell right. I'll report them.

[john61ct]

They just didn't want to pay PP's commission.

But amazing enough people would be stupid enough to agree to their request.

[twistedtree]

Who's the merchant?

[Sea Q]

Here is the scam I just learned of it last week
A company sets up a online site and it is a company that pretends to be a large company based in you country with a showroom the office. Or they use another company name under false pretences
It needs paypal or for you to arrange payment to paypal

say $2 k

You pay for it and order They go to some online seller in china pay $1k and it ships from china to you . Pocketing the difference

If breaks you get no customer service you ship it back to their warehouse for return but the address is something else then it gets shipped back to you collect .
pretty sweet scam

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Sea Q

Here is the scam I just learned of it last week
A company sets up a online site and it is a company that pretends to be a large company based in you country with a showroom the office. Or they use another company name under false pretences
It needs paypal or for you to arrange payment to paypal

say $2 k

You pay for it and order They go to some online seller in china pay $1k and it ships from china to you . Pocketing the difference

If breaks you get no customer service you ship it back to their warehouse for return but the address is something else then it gets shipped back to you collect .
pretty sweet scam

As a business practice, that is known as drop-shipping. Nothing new and not always bad. However, it is often used as you just described and the company provides no support.

The issue is you can't tell sometimes who you're really dealing with.

Now, legitimate drop shipping is as follows. I'll give two examples:

1. Companies that have been around forever and do drop shipping. You can set up with them as a seller and you take the orders and then order from them for delivery to your customer. You purchase at less than their retail price. You can process returns and have them shipped to you or the distributor.

2. There are companies that do stock a lot of product but sometimes use other companies for additional products. Even Wal-mart and Sears do this. So, that other product is shipped from a third party. Again, you pay the normal price. They get a discount.

Now, a couple of hints of ways to check legitimacy. Certainly Google and BBB are starts. Also, Map their street address and see what is there. If they have no street address, that's a reason for question.

There are legitimate websites that are nothing but affiliate sites, earn a commission from the company. However, there are websites that require investigation and shouldn't be trusted.

One place you see this is Canadian Pharmacies. I'm not arguing whether you should or shouldn't use them. However, it's easy enough to pull up a map, get a street view of their brick and mortar pharmacy. Also, to check their licensing. Last, the legitimate ones tell you where each drug is coming from so if some do ship from India, you're told in advance. Sometimes you even get a choice.

Caveat Emptor.

[GFC]

Originally Posted by Seevee

I don't use PayPal and hate them. They are a PITA and laden with fraud and lawsuits and I wan't no part of it. Just google PayPal lawsuits... you'll have more than you can read in a life time.

I love PayPal and use it often...to the tune of 2-3 times a week. I am set up with their "One Click" shopping where I click once on that link to complete the transaction.

They already have my shipping info and my bank checking account number. They automatically deduct the amount from my checking, the order is paid for immediately and ships that same day.

As to orders coming from long distances away where shipping time is loooooong, Amazon allows you to cancel the order once you learn how long the shipping will take. One or two clicks is all it takes to canx the order and one of the reasons you can select for cancelling the order is it won't arrive in time.

[Seevee]

Originally Posted by GFC

I love PayPal and use it often...to the tune of 2-3 times a week. I am set up with their "One Click" shopping where I click once on that link to complete the transaction.

They already have my shipping info and my bank checking account number. They automatically deduct the amount from my checking, the order is paid for immediately and ships that same day.

As to orders coming from long distances away where shipping time is loooooong, Amazon allows you to cancel the order once you learn how long the shipping will take. One or two clicks is all it takes to canx the order and one of the reasons you can select for cancelling the order is it won't arrive in time.

GFC,

Agree with Amazon, and I order most of my stuff from them. Occasionally with boat parts or specialized stuff they can't compete.

We can disagree on Pay Pal, have some friends that love them, but there's just too many issues with them and I'd not give them my bank account number, nor authorize them do deduct a dime. Their agreement is all for them.

[BandB]

We would greatly prefer not to use Paypal as merchants even though I've always used it for ebay purchases I made. For businesses that are predominantly brick and mortar it's easy not to use them. However, we've found that for businesses that are 100% web businesses, you miss some sales if you don't use it. So we do use it. It costs us internally far more time to account for it, to keep up with it, to respond to inquiries plus it's an entirely different set of rules to live with. We probably never would have used it but we acquired one company that was doing nearly 50% of their business through Paypal.

[john61ct]

Yes PayPal is great for transactions from the buyer's POV.

But don't leave any significant amount in your balance with them, they seize at the drop of a hat and takes forever or never get it back.

[Al]

Originally Posted by BandB

As a business practice, that is known as drop-shipping. Nothing new and not always bad. However, it is often used as you just described and the company provides no support.

The issue is you can't tell sometimes who you're really dealing with.

Now, legitimate drop shipping is as follows. I'll give two examples:

1. Companies that have been around forever and do drop shipping. You can set up with them as a seller and you take the orders and then order from them for delivery to your customer. You purchase at less than their retail price. You can process returns and have them shipped to you or the distributor.

2. There are companies that do stock a lot of product but sometimes use other companies for additional products. Even Wal-mart and Sears do this. So, that other product is shipped from a third party. Again, you pay the normal price. They get a discount.

Now, a couple of hints of ways to check legitimacy. Certainly Google and BBB are starts. Also, Map their street address and see what is there. If they have no street address, that's a reason for question.

There are legitimate websites that are nothing but affiliate sites, earn a commission from the company. However, there are websites that require investigation and shouldn't be trusted.

One place you see this is Canadian Pharmacies. I'm not arguing whether you should or shouldn't use them. However, it's easy enough to pull up a map, get a street view of their brick and mortar pharmacy. Also, to check their licensing. Last, the legitimate ones tell you where each drug is coming from so if some do ship from India, you're told in advance. Sometimes you even get a choice.

Caveat Emptor.

Great read! Thanks and I'd bet a lot more have or will thank.

[kev_rm]

The credit card companies are extremely sophisticated at detecting fraud.. its not the merchant who does that. so beyond the obvious advice of "don't transmit your credit card details over email" I'd try to find out the reason behind the flagging.

[Lepke]

I buy everything I can online going back to early days of online shopping. Mostly Ebay and Amazon. With Paypal the only time a transaction was held up was because I purchased from someone that had problems issuing timely refunds. It's not Paypal, it's the seller.

[angus99]

Originally Posted by kev_rm

The credit card companies are extremely sophisticated at detecting fraud.. its not the merchant who does that. so beyond the obvious advice of "don't transmit your credit card details over email" I'd try to find out the reason behind the flagging.

There is no reason for the flagging and I don't believe any indication of fraud was detected. (Maybe we'll find out for sure when I hear back from PayPal.) We've purchased multiple items before and since this one using PayPal without drama. If it is necessary for PayPal to flag a transaction, there is zero reason for a merchant to ask for credit card information unrelated to that transaction.

[GFC]

Originally Posted by john61ct

But don't leave any significant amount in your balance with them, they seize at the drop of a hat and takes forever or never get it back.

John, that has not been my experience with PP. I've had a couple of disputed purchases where the mdse didn't turn out to be exactly like advertised. I contacted Amazon and PayPal and both stopped the transactions, reversed the charges and made me whole again.