Navy Destroyer tee boned by a Freighter?

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
Pretty sure she was underway.

Colregs Rule 3 (i) The word "underway" means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.
 
the conspiracy theorists on Youtube are convinced it was disabled by an EMP device, the freighters Autopilot was hacked and then the hackers rammed the Fitz with the freighter, and it was all organized by North Korea.

but...in all honesty...I don't think we're sure of anything yet.
 
psneeld said:
Do you know for a fact there was not other traffic present?
Click to expand...


I don't have the link but have seen AIS recordings showing other vessel's, movements in the area, some on parallel courses I'm both directions, some on crossing courses. Maybe there should be some new convention whereby navy ships transmit but with lesser data broadcast, somewhat like us smaller guys do. A long time ago now and before we had AIS on our boat, but did have radar, we were in a cat and mouse game in thick fog on a Friday night in the English Channel. We were southbound and had a radar target crossing us going east west, outside of the regular 'lanes' between the TSS areas of Casquets and Dover. To avoid a complicated plotting situation, even as stand on vessel, we stopped for a while to allow the target to cross unimpeded, but when we stopped, he stopped again too. We moved again on same course as did he, we stopped again, so did he. Then another target with a larger radar paint appeared astern of our 'wanna play cat' and he took off like a ...well... scalded cat, clearing the playground for us rather nicely. We later discovered one of the local Customs and Excise (Revenue) cutters was in the area and suspect he was the cat to our mouse, possibly practicising, possibly suspicious of a small target (we were a 41 foot sailboat under sail) outbound in thick fog at night and headed for a wine buying weekend in France. There were other vessels crossing at speed in both directions parallel to our course, most probably cross Channel ferries, all clearing us nicely and the main reason we initially tried the stop tactic rather than stand on regardless.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
First hand acct from ACX Crystal's captain

Exclusive: U.S. warship stayed on deadly collision course despite warning - container ship captain | Reuters

A U.S. warship struck by a container vessel in Japanese waters failed to respond to warning signals or take evasive action before a collision that killed seven of its crew, according to a report of the incident by the Philippine cargo ship's captain.
Multiple U.S. and Japanese investigations are under way into how the guided missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald and the much larger ACX Crystal container ship collided in clear weather south of Tokyo Bay in the early hours of June 17.
In the first detailed account from one of those directly involved, the cargo ship's captain said the ACX Crystal had signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald "suddenly" steamed on to a course to cross its path.
The container ship steered hard to starboard (right) to avoid the warship, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to a copy of Captain Ronald Advincula's report to Japanese ship owner Dainichi Investment Corporation that was seen by Reuters.
The U.S. Navy declined to comment and Reuters was not able to independently verify the account.
Click to expand...
 
One sides opinion which may or not be true.

In law class we were told that whomever witnessed an event would have a very distinctive opinion and somewhere in that collection of opinions would be the truth. This case will takes years to decide with various expert opinions on the subject. Should be fun.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There is no way to know what "flashing lights" means or what other communications ACX Crystal's captain may have attempted. This account is a journalist's interpretation of a report that has passed through multiple sources and languages.

Very little of this makes any sense at this time.
 
There are light signals that correspond to whistle signals, but last I checked they are used in conjunction with sound, not alone.
 
While I was a professional seaman, warships would always try to contact us by flashing light. I specifically recall a submarine on the surface on a reciprocal course in the Irish Sea in winter, signaled to my ship with an Aldis Lamp "what ship, where bound?" It was cold out on the bridge wing and as second mate I didn't have the resources of a navy vessel on my bridge. I pulled out our Aldis lamp, plugged it on to power, took it on the the bridge wing and signaled back "VHF16". While I stood there in the cold wind wearing a short sleeve shirt I awaited his reply. He came back with the original question. I again replied requesting a vhf conversation. I went inside and tried to call on the vhf. No answer. All the while he is flashing messages at me. The captain came up to the bridge and told me to answer the light as the naval vessel could report our ship to the British Board of Trade for refusing to comply with his signals. So I did and the signal operator on the sub started to engage in a lengthy Q&A. Even as he passed abeam and fell off astern he was still signaling. I think he was practicing his Morse code but I sure was cold and didn't appreciate it.
 
So according to the report, the container ship turned hard to starboard and 10 minutes later collided.

Never expect one of those big boys to maneuver to miss you. They simply can't do it.
 
Cottontop said:
So according to the report, the container ship turned hard to starboard and 10 minutes later collided.

Never expect one of those big boys to maneuver to miss you. They simply can't do it.
Click to expand...

Wifey B: While the container ship people will speak to the press, I'm sure the destroyer captain and others will not so will only get one side of the story for now.

By the way, if a ship destroys a destroyer, what does it make it? :confused::hide:
 
Robin said:
I don't have the link but have seen AIS recordings showing other vessel's, movements in the area, some on parallel courses I'm both directions, some on crossing courses. Maybe there should be some new convention whereby navy ships transmit but with lesser data broadcast, somewhat like us smaller guys do. A long time ago now and before we had AIS on our boat, but did have radar, we were in a cat and mouse game in thick fog on a Friday night in the English Channel. We were southbound and had a radar target crossing us going east west, outside of the regular 'lanes' between the TSS areas of Casquets and Dover. To avoid a complicated plotting situation, even as stand on vessel, we stopped for a while to allow the target to cross unimpeded, but when we stopped, he stopped again too. We moved again on same course as did he, we stopped again, so did he. Then another target with a larger radar paint appeared astern of our 'wanna play cat' and he took off like a ...well... scalded cat, clearing the playground for us rather nicely. We later discovered one of the local Customs and Excise (Revenue) cutters was in the area and suspect he was the cat to our mouse, possibly practicising, possibly suspicious of a small target (we were a 41 foot sailboat under sail) outbound in thick fog at night and headed for a wine buying weekend in France. There were other vessels crossing at speed in both directions parallel to our course, most probably cross Channel ferries, all clearing us nicely and the main reason we initially tried the stop tactic rather than stand on regardless.
Click to expand...


This is exactly why you are supposed to follow the rules. Stopping to be a "nice guy" or you obey the "rule on tonnage" just creates chaos is an otherwise smoothly working system. Things get messed up when people don't do what's expected of them, even though its well intentioned.
 
Cottontop said:
So according to the report, the container ship turned hard to starboard and 10 minutes later collided.



Never expect one of those big boys to maneuver to miss you. They simply can't do it.
Click to expand...


I don't see any way that the hard 90 dg turn to stbd was anything other than the result of the collision. I don't think a big ship can turn like that.

Oops, looking at the account by the captain, maybe they can turn that fast.
 
Last edited:
So......if a junior officer is in charge...and decides to play "chicken" with a freighter rather than alert the captain....does the captain still get punished for the collision ?
 
Benthic2 said:
So......if a junior officer is in charge...and decides to play "chicken" with a freighter rather than alert the captain....does the captain still get punished for the collision ?
Click to expand...

Usually yes...it is called loss of confidence in leadership.

I think it is total crap in the US Military how sr officers are sometimes punished when they shouldnt be, but it is eadier than passing the buck up to the right level sometimes...

The old expression, shi* rolls downhill still applies.

The 2 targets in a situation such as this is the most experienced enlisted watchstander (though on electronic bridges I could be too old fashion) and the captain.

The OOD will probably get burned too.

No matter the actual events...they have bullseyes on them no matter what an investigation finds.

Because the colregs allude tbat any collision amounts to fault on both parties.
 
In some ways I can see that that the faults of an underling are the responsibility of the boss if he hired him and trained him, but in the navy, when a junior officer is assigned to a ship he has the stamp of approval of the US Navy that he's qualified for the job he's been given..... I'm not sure its fair for his shortcomings to be blamed on the Captain. Thanks for answering
 
Even in our world someone is responsible and might not be the person who screwed up. You kid gets in a fight at school and seriously injures another student, mom and dad are paying. Your are a CEO and a junior executive screws up and financially hurts the company with a lame decision , the stockholders are coming after you. Its not fair you say, someone has to be responsible. So you have a two man company of washing cars and your only employee breaks the rear windshield of your best customer, your paying.

So life isn't fair.
 
I agree, but if you think fair is common in the military.....nope...just like the rest of the world...

Politics, favoritism, lack of recognizing pure luck or pure disaster.....and all for pennies on the dollar of responsibility.

Its an adventure. :)

Irv...the one thing that bothers me is you arent vested in the military like you can negotiate in the private world.

You dont have a union rep or a golden parachute...you screw up and you leave without a nickel or benefits unless they let you and you are eligible to retire. That can be the equivalent of giving up a multimillion dollar annuity for pension purposes.

I know guys tossed out without a nickel or benefits for a DUI with 19 years in...less than a year from earning that pension. I know lots of guys in the private sector that didnt get paid while in jail, but had their jobs back like nothing ever happened when out.

And sure, not all the time in the private sector, but 1090 percent where I was....yep life aint fair all over....just fair down at the county fairgrounds.
 
Last edited:
BandB said:
Interesting. One thing I noted was him saying they signaled with flashing lights. No radio? No sound?
Click to expand...

That was exactly my thought when I read that. Now, while in general I trust the news media, I don't trust them to get details correct when writing a short piece about any technical subject. The person interviewed may have said that they tried to signal the destroyer, including flashing lights. That could then have gotten changed by the time the article was written. I would thing that the freighter would have been on the radio as well as the horn long before someone said "hey, let try flashing the lights".
 
Scott

You joined the military and have to live by their rules and that is why you are so respected the world over. The military is held to a higher standard and I'm glad they are. I want my heros up on a pedestal! Life ain't fair!
 
I cant be sure what they are talking about concerning flashing lights, but if orofessional mariners, I would guess this...

Read in the navrules annex 1, number 12 about manuevering lights and Rule 34b...they discuss flashing lights that are manuevering signals that supplement whistle signals.
 
Bigsfish said:
Scott

You joined the military and have to live by their rules and that is why you are so respected the world over. The military is held to a higher standard and I'm glad they are. I want my heros up on a pedestal! Life ain't fair!
Click to expand...

I served through the change of old school WWII to 1990s politically correct....

I liked it better when we were treated like junk yard dogs.

Toss us a bone once and awhile, dont let us be seen in high society, count on us to protect the yard, and be damn glad we were there when you needed us. Simple..... :)

My favorite example is in the 1890s as the equivalent of a Leiutenant Colonel, I could have been a territorial govenor, printing money, hanging bandits, clearing the path of progress ....but by the 1990s, I wasnt trusted to buy a box of pencils without 3 levels of oversight.

You tell me, a college educated, highly trained pro couldnt do crap while 100 years ago, a rich kids son with a bought commission could do almost anything. And yet, look how we turned out for the most part.

Go figure.
 
Last edited:
Scott

Life isn't fair. I have a good friend of mine in nanal intelligence, 20 years in and never a problem. He was told after his next deployment he will not advance any further. An Annapolis grad with his masters hoping to spend more years in the Navy and running a naval intelligence office in a very dangerous country and now he is being turned away. Sad and not fair but so is life. :banghead:
 
Think for a moment about the words we use to describe those that are in the armed forces. They don't "work" for the Navy, they "serve" in the Navy. Think about what it means to give your service. In the US, men and women give their service voluntarily. They are putting the country's and the military service's needs and requirements above their own, even to the point of death. The very nature of joining military is to be subservient to their dictates. Being fair is not part of that equation.

That is the primary reason why I think that those that enter military service deserve my respect and gratitude. Sure there are some benefits to them for this service, but ultimately they are choosing to forego the basic decisions of what they will be doing, who they will be associating with, and where they will be living. They are doing all that on my behalf.
 
The Navy I was in had Radar,,,a couple of watches on the bridge.doesnt make sense to me, but we weren't there were we.just saying
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

mvweebles
5-mos Cruising Pacific Mexico Q&A
Replies
11
Views
1K
PNW
PNW
R
Seeking crew San Diego to San Francisco
Replies
3
Views
565
Liberty Hound Skipper
Liberty Hound Skipper
D
Collision and demasting
10 11 12
Replies
351
Views
25K
Old Sea Dog
Old Sea Dog
PNW
Seattle, new to trawling, excited to learn all the diesel things
Replies
19
Views
2K
Bacchus
Bacchus
slowgoesit
Loss of SV Rum Truffle, Bahia del Sol bar, El Salvador
2
Replies
45
Views
6K
slowgoesit
slowgoesit

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom