Navy Destroyer tee boned by a Freighter?

[twistedtree]

No matter how all this turns out, or what the details turn out to be:
On a 900 ft merchant vessel in a very busy area, on a moonless night, with the bridge toward the stern and a pile of containers ahead, it seems unrealistic to expect the watch would/could actually be able to visually see the gray form of the Fitz 'out there' in the dark. Crystal was on autopilot, and I really doubt the watch was paying much attention beyond maybe glancing at the radar screen occasionally. That's just the way it is today and all of us in small boats should assume they don't see us.

I think we have to assume the fitz was running with nav lights, so it would have been just as visible as any other ship. Plus it surely was on radar. I can only guess what happened, but it's real hard to see any valid excuse for such a collision. And yes, AIS certainly helps, but the fitz not transmitting is no excuse either.

 

[twistedtree]

Cruise ships are more lit up/visible than a Coast Guard cutter to the extreme right (and either the tugboat between) only showing navigational lights.

It's an interesting dilemma. Yes, lots of lights make a ship more visible, but they drown out the nav lights so you can't tell what the ship is doing and can't assess the risk of collision. In fact, it can be difficult to even tell that it is a ship as opposed to a shore-side facility or other. I know this first had having nearly been hit by a fishing vessel all lit up and with no visible nav lights. At night you have very little depth perception, and for the longest time I thought the brightly lit thing was on shore....until I realized it wasn't and was about to hit me.

I believe the colregs have a clause to address this, prohibiting other lights that might obscure or confuse the required nav lights. Obviously this requirement is regularly ignored.

 

[markpierce]

The navigational lights in the picture of a well-lighted cruise ships are well defined for me.

 

[twistedtree]

The navigational lights in the picture of a well-lighted cruise ships are well defined to me.

Yes, I agree. It looks like all the cabin lights are off. i wonder if they somehow block them out at night. If the cabin lights were on I think it would be a lot harder to see those nav lights.

What has the protocol been on cruises that you have taken? I've never been on one - at least one like that.

 

[Bigsfish]

If on a cruise and you have an outside cabin, when your lights are on all on that side of the boat can see them. I have never been on a blacked out windo cruise, not sure they even exist.

 

[markpierce]

The several night-time views I've had of other cruise ships, the navigational lights were always obvious. Post #159 of the Cunard ship preparing to dock in San Francisco is typical.

If you want your boat to be visible at night, it would be wise to show auxiliary lights to be more visible.

 

[Benthic2]

I worked on a cruise ship. Guests can do what they want with their cabin lights, but most of the light comes from the public area lighting and open deck space. On our ships the bridge was always dark and there were no lights forward of the bridge.

 

[markpierce]

Have always booked an interior cabin except for our next week's cruise to Alaska. Found you are more likely upgraded to an outside cabin if you're a newbie.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Several peeps on here see commercial ships as our daily work routine. Notice the range lights on the CG cutter, they convey (now and pre AIS) which direction the ship is travelling. Radar helps, AIS helps but the nav lights are required because (and before) not every vessel is required to have these electronic aids. ALL vessels are required to adhere to the rules, whether they have radar,AIS or other aids. The 12' s/v has as much right to the waterway and identifying and obeying the rules as the supertanker or Naval vessel.

 

[Bigsfish]

SOF

LOL. But if I'm in that 12' I'm not arguing with a naval vessel or tanker or even one of your vessels. It's a fight I can't win.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I wholeheartedly agree Irv! But the rules were meant for safe nav of vessels addressing only 2 at a time. Some of these seem to favor larger vessels (don't impede nav in a narrow channel) etc. The law of tonnage is a reality of common sense only, doesn't mean its wrong. Common sense will keep most of us safe, even if the "Rules" say we are right.

 

[Bigsfish]

I was just being funny.

See you February for the gathering in Ft. Pierce, we will make sure we have your special beer.

 

[menzies]

Hang on, what gathering in Fort Pierce?

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Oh Jeez, Menzies Irv and crew are the consumate hosts for a boat party. I Have been to Larry and Lena (HOBO), Don MOON (Moonstruck) and others . Always a fun time! We swap sea stories and have fun!Ft Pierce was even better ! Scott (Psneeld) OC Diver, (Ted) John Baker and the lovely Wendy,(Steve says Hi,lol) Others that I'm sorry for forgetting names! Good time. good peeps

 

[menzies]

Oh Jeez, Menzies Irv and crew are the consumate hosts for a boat party. I Have been to Larry and Lena (HOBO), Don MOON (Moonstruck) and others . Always a fun time! We swap sea stories and have fun!Ft Pierce was even better ! Scott (Psneeld) OC Diver, (Ted) John Baker and the lovely Wendy,(Steve says Hi,lol) Others that I'm sorry for forgetting names! Good time. good peeps

Well I saw the threads on the last two get-togethers, but didn't know one was planned for next year. We are targeting the Abacos for the month of March next year before hitting the Chesapeake for June, July, August. So could be one we make! Then leave FP direct to the Abacos afterwards.

Details please.

 

[Bigsfish]

The month was February and the weather was perfect. Don and Larry were the instigators (co-ordinations) and did a perfect job, perhaps they can be bribed to do the logistics again this year (wink, wink). The marina was great and had a few restaurants on premise or real close and Saturday was a farmers market. Food was good especially after a few beers or Carmelita's (a lot for some). Watfa has some special food planned for 2018 which all should like plus more booze. In any event it was a fun time and hopefully it will become a yearly event that we all can appreciate after the holidays. We have already bought some door prizes so if you know a door, dated one or have one in your boat you have a good chance of winning (it's something we can all use but may not have seen, and that's all the light I'm shedding on that subject).

Make plans the more the merrier.

 

[O C Diver]

I'm sure there will be one next year. Expect the return of the Canadian contingency and those that only showed for the day. Might be time to start a new thread on it.

Ted

 

[Bigsfish]

Great idea Ted since you won the neatest and cleanest engine room why don't you start the thread.

Thanks.

 

[fryedaze]

I'm sure there will be one next year. Expect the return of the Canadian contingency and those that only showed for the day. Might be time to start a new thread on it.

Ted

Hi Ted, your blog is behind. How am I going to get my Loop fix. I need some Welland Canal picture on Slow hand. Please due better on Superior.

 

[dhays]

The navigational lights in the picture of a well-lighted cruise ships are well defined for me.

There is no way I would assume that I could spot that red nav light among the rest unless I knew it was there and I knew what I was looking at. A picture whose content you know is a whole lot different than seeing it with your eyes when you don't have the prior information.

 

[Benthic2]

but your eyes would let you know it was there....and your radar screen would tell you speed and direction.

 

[Landshark]

According to COLREGS Rule 15, Crossing Situations, the vessel with a crossing vessel on its starboard is is the give way vessel. That is, it was the responsibility of the USS Fitzgerald to alter course to starboard and pass behind the freighter. A possible exception is that the freighter was overtaking the the destroyer on the starboard side and then turned to port into the destroyer - hardly likely. The Fitzgerald is a sports car compared to the freighter. It is nimble and accelerates quickly. At the slightest hint of an impending collision it had the wherewithal to safely change the situation. A lot of US NAvy careers were sunk as a result of this encounter. BTW, nobody has mentioned the other infamous American ship named Fitzgerald with a first name Edmund. It too was ill served by its crew.

 

[dhays]

but your eyes would let you know it was there....and your radar screen would tell you speed and direction.

In that situation with a lot of traffic, the eyes have a hard time telling the distance. But you are correct, radar and AIS would tell me where it is.

 

[psneeld]

There may be other factors such as other traffic that modifies or negates rule 15

Does anyone know if non AIS vessels were present such as small fishing vessels interfering with what everyone assumez should have been a simple avoidance manuever?

 

[Landshark]

US Navy and USCG ships do not transmit AIS information for public consumption. Most likely they could if they chose to. The do, however, receive and plot all AIS transmissions from ships so equipped. The freighter involved in this collision was required to have AIS. In fact, the freighter's AIS signature illustrated its peculiar course for all the world to see after the collision. The captain of the freighter will have some explaining to do about his odd maneuverings. Nevertheless, it is difficult to understand why the Fitzgerald could did out maneuver the freighter and avoid the collision.

 

[psneeld]

US Navy and USCG ships do not transmit AIS information for public consumption. Most likely they could if they chose to. The do, however, receive and plot all AIS transmissions from ships so equipped. The freighter involved in this collision was required to have AIS. In fact, the freighter's AIS signature illustrated its peculiar course for all the world to see after the collision. The captain of the freighter will have some explaining to do about his odd maneuverings. Nevertheless, it is difficult to understand why the Fitzgerald could did out maneuver the freighter and avoid the collision.

Do you know for a fact there was not other traffic present?

 

[Bigsfish]

We are all trying to simplify the correct solution to this problem. I'm sure in a few years we will have judgement from proper authorities until the facts are in I'll reserve any judgement. It's never as easy as it appears.

 

[O C Diver]

Hi Ted, your blog is behind. How am I going to get my Loop fix. I need some Welland Canal picture on Slow hand. Please due better on Superior.

I will be rectifying my blogging tardiness on my next blow day. Keep getting distracted by ice cream stores.

Ted

 

[RT Firefly]

 

[FlyWright]

Are we sure the Fitzgerald was underway?