Mechanical challenges on first passage

[2savage]

It is now eight days since I left Florida for New York and the hits just keep coming. But there is good news too.

First was probably to be expected which was dirt in the tanks stirred up by eight foot waves on the starboard bow. We ran low on fresh filters quickly. Then we found water in the oil of the generator. This was diagnosed as a failed seal in the rear of the raw water pump. Finally we had made an error with fuel management settings and caused the main engine to die off Hatteras. And, we were unable to restart the main engine.

That was three days ago. We are now in Manchese NC completing repairs. After two new 8D batteries and a new starter motor we FINALLY tracked the problem down to a bad cable from the battery to the Perko cutoff switch. It felt a but stiff and when we opened up the casing the copper was black, not gold.

The replacement cable was made up for us by NAPA and we are now jusrt waiting for the generator pump to arrive on Monday. Its a Westerbeke 12.5k.

Yes it has been a pain to diagnose and even harder to rerun all the battery cables but now I have something that I can depend on. I even replaced the crossover solenoid that parallels the generator battery to the main engine starter battery.

By the way, running Oregon Inlet was a nightmare!

 

[rgano]

You left a dangling thread when you said you were unable to restart off Hatteras. What happened between there and a port?

Glad all is getting "shook down" without too much drama.

 

[healhustler]

Must be the moon or Mercury rising or something. Just among the small group of cruisers I communicate with (me included), there have been more such breakdown incidents than I could list in a reasonably sized post. They all dealt with it and I’m glad to say they are in safe harbor.

 

[O C Diver]

After two new 8D batteries and a new starter motor we FINALLY tracked the problem down to a bad cable from the battery to the Perko cutoff switch. It felt a but stiff and when we opened up the casing the copper was black, not gold.

The replacement cable was made up for us by NAPA and we are now jusrt waiting for the generator pump to arrive on Monday. Its a Westerbeke 12.5k.

Boat cables and wires are supposed to be silver not gold (copper colored). Boat wire is supposed to be tinned. Automotive wire is straight copper. Tinned wire and terminals properly installed, prevent what happened to the previous cable.

Ted

 

[Iggy]

Boat cables and wires are supposed to be silver not gold (copper colored). Boat wire is supposed to be tinned. Automotive wire is straight copper. Tinned wire and terminals properly installed, prevent what happened to the previous cable.

Ted

I was thinking that too when I read it.

 

[DavidM]

Yes, the new NAPA cable is almost certainly not tinned. When you get to your final destination, replace that cable with real tinned wire.

BTW, what has happened to Genuinedealz.com. They were my go to place for custom boat cable fabrication but they are mostly sold out and have been that way for months. Anyone have an online replacement?

David

 

[Flatswing]

Yes, the new NAPA cable is almost certainly not tinned. When you get to your final destination, replace that cable with real tinned cable.

Technically, I completely agree. But in the world of Asian built trawlers, many use untinned copper cable on the grounds. Having just replaced/ rerouted all my house, starter & inverter cables, I can opine that if untinned, large diameter (2-0-4-0) are terminated in closed, properly crimped lugs, then sealed with adhesive lined heat shrink, the untinned copper will outlast your boat ownership without corrosion. Of course if your cable runs are sitting in bilge water, all bets are off. On my DeFever, cable corrosion is not an issue after 18 yrs. Crappy hammer crimps have been my nemesis. If you have any cables whose terminals are wrapped with electrical tape, I recommend taking the tape off. So far I have had 4 lugs essentially fall off when the tape was unwound! A big mechanical crimper or even a cheap HF hydraulic one with a good selection of quality tinned closed lugs will be a sound investment & way better than hammer crimps (with apologies to Rod @ marinehowto.com).

 

[friz]

Oregon Inlet IS a nightmare! The only time I have attempted/done it was following a commercial fishing boat going out.

 

[C lectric]

I have a hammer crimper and have a number of terminals aboard done with it and still in use after ~30 yrs. I now keep the hammer crimper aboard for emergencies.

However, I never hammered on the floor of the salon or bilge. I would carry a steel plate of about 10# and use that to hammer on OR go find a big rock or steel plate ashore that won't bounce around. Any place the hammer crimper can bounce will seriously reduce its effectiveness with a poor result.

I then would use a caulking compound and heat shrink tape over the joint.

Of course much of this was done long before Ancor and all the other mfgrs. got on the bandwagon. But done properly the crimps can work and work well IF steps are taken to do the crimps well and then seal them.


Of course I too have changed. I have a good crimper, the needed adhesive lined heat shrink tubing, NoAlox or similar , a small torch for emergency shrinking, and so on.

All current wiring is done with Ancor or equivalent wire, good terminals, and crimping and so on.

But I still carry my emergency kit. Hammer crimper, steel plate. The only time I needed it, the job was for another boat.

Replace the cable if you wish but you can set it up to last if you wish with some effort rather than tossing it.

 

[2savage]

Boat cables and wires are supposed to be silver not gold (copper colored). Boat wire is supposed to be tinned. Automotive wire is straight copper. Tinned wire and terminals properly installed, prevent what happened to the previous cable.

Ted

These are 2/0 battery cables, not skinny tinned wire. Each is about 3/4" thick. They are copper as every big ass battery cable is. The ends are sealed with heat shrink glued covers. The bad cable had chafe allowing moisture in.

 

[2savage]

Today is our last day here. We will install the generator pump and need to run fresh oil in it then do another oil change to get the gunk out. What came out looked like a latte.

As for Oregon Inlet, we need to exit here the same way. I had the GPS record our passage in here and plan on retracing our steps along with extra local advice as to any changes. Charts are pretty much useless.

 

[O C Diver]

These are 2/0 battery cables, not skinny tinned wire. Each is about 3/4" thick. They are copper as every big ass battery cable is. The ends are sealed with heat shrink glued covers. The bad cable had chafe allowing moisture in.

All my battery cables are tinned wire. The mains from my house bank are 4/0. All the crimps are tinned also to prevent corrosion. Part of the reason for using tinned wire is to prevent corrosion from a compromised cable covering.

Ted

 

[mvweebles]

While tinned is better, my 1970 Willard 36 was built a time when tinned wire/cable was not really available. A few smaller connections have corroded over the years, but overall it's been a non-issue. I do use waterproof heat-shrink connectors and such.

Peter

 

[Bmarler]

These are 2/0 battery cables, not skinny tinned wire. Each is about 3/4" thick. They are copper as every big ass battery cable is. The ends are sealed with heat shrink glued covers. The bad cable had chafe allowing moisture in.

You’ll be fine with those. Tinned cable is a recommendation, not a requirement. You’ve done the right things to protect the wire you put in and it should last a good long time as there’s no damage that happens to them that compromises the insulation.
Just keep it in mind for next time. Usually the tinned cable is at marine supply, not automotive.

 

[2savage]

I conceed that tinned cable may be better than non-tinned. But replacing everything is not something I would undertake lightly. The 16' cable I replaced was one of the shorter ones and it was $186. Many of the longer cables are up to 30' long and there are many of them. Replacement of just one took two men 7 hours to replace. It would be a full weeks work and several thousand dollars materials to replace everything.

The cable that went bad was installed in 1991, some 31 years ago. So looking at the boat as a whole, there are other areas to focus on before I worry about these cables again. I just installed a new raw water pump on the main engine and need to find somewhere to rebuild the old one so I have a spare. Likewise the generator water pump.

So, reliability will be best served by looking at the big picture, not sweating the stuff that has lasted 31 years.

 

[koliver]

Today is our last day here. We will install the generator pump and need to run fresh oil in it then do another oil change to get the gunk out. What came out looked like a latte.

With your oil looking like too much salt water has mixed with it, it will take more than a couple of oil changes to clear it from all of the bearings and journals. In my own experience, after 6 oil changes, when the oil I was removing looked as clean as the oil I was putting in, the engine still suffered too much and a full rebuild followed. Keep detailed records of all that you do to get that engine back on track, as you want to be able to satisfy your insurer that your attempt to save the engine was a proper course of action, should what you have done not be enough.
Pull the valve covers to see how much of the latte still hides in corners under the covers. That will be a good indicator of how much is in places you can't see.

 

[twistedtree]

We’re you able to get the fuel tanks cleaned? Sounds like that was a significant issue too.

 

[2savage]

Oil changes continued until it looked clean. They will continue on a much more frequent basis too but getting to NYC comes first. I've been gone for almost two months now and wifey is getting a bit antsy.

 

[twistedtree]

Oil changes continued until it looked clean. They will continue on a much more frequent basis too but getting to NYC comes first. I've been gone for almost two months now and wifey is getting a bit antsy.

You could get the oil tested too to see where it stands, rather than guess. It might save you a few oil changes, or save your engine from ongoing damage. Both would be good. Though I suppose if the oil is visually bad, you already know the answer...

 

[Blissboat]

you left a dangling thread when you said you were unable to restart off hatteras. What happened between there and a port?

x 2!

 

[Mac2]

“ I just installed a new raw water pump on the main engine and need to find somewhere to rebuild the old one so I have a spare. Likewise the generator water pump.”

Replace the shaft on the pump as well. It’s usually not included in the kit. The shaft will wear down where it contacts the seal. After going through a rebuild, and reinstalling, I discovered this the hard way. It’s not worth the hassle of going through this process a second time, along with getting salt water everywhere.

 

[BandB]

Oil changes continued until it looked clean. They will continue on a much more frequent basis too but getting to NYC comes first. I've been gone for almost two months now and wifey is getting a bit antsy.

Well, if you're antsy, don't go back outside. Don't go back through Oregon Inlet. Stay inside to Portsmouth and then head out and go the rest of the trip outside. Why? First, it's shorter and likely quicker inside. Second, plenty of places inside to get help if you need them. Third, it will just allow you to work through things before heading out and home.

Keep in mind I always choose outside over inside, but this area is my one exception.

 

[Miz Trom]

Well, if you're antsy, don't go back outside. Don't go back through Oregon Inlet. Stay inside to Portsmouth and then head out and go the rest of the trip outside. Why? First, it's shorter and likely quicker inside. Second, plenty of places inside to get help if you need them. Third, it will just allow you to work through things before heading out and home.

Keep in mind I always choose outside over inside, but this area is my one exception.

Agree completely.


Cheers,
Mrs. Trombley

 

[ronobrien]

It is now eight days since I left Florida for New York and the hits just keep coming. But there is good news too.

First was probably to be expected which was dirt in the tanks stirred up by eight foot waves on the starboard bow. We ran low on fresh filters quickly. Then we found water in the oil of the generator. This was diagnosed as a failed seal in the rear of the raw water pump. Finally we had made an error with fuel management settings and caused the main engine to die off Hatteras. And, we were unable to restart the main engine.

That was three days ago. We are now in Manchese NC completing repairs. After two new 8D batteries and a new starter motor we FINALLY tracked the problem down to a bad cable from the battery to the Perko cutoff switch. It felt a but stiff and when we opened up the casing the copper was black, not gold.

The replacement cable was made up for us by NAPA and we are now jusrt waiting for the generator pump to arrive on Monday. Its a Westerbeke 12.5k.

Yes it has been a pain to diagnose and even harder to rerun all the battery cables but now I have something that I can depend on. I even replaced the crossover solenoid that parallels the generator battery to the main engine starter battery.

By the way, running Oregon Inlet was a nightmare!

Learning to perform a voltage drop test would have lead you to the cable sooner (and cheaper). Any decent DVOM will work, the trick is knowing how to do it. It is really quite easy once you understand some basics about DC electrical systems and have done it a few times. There are many videos about it on Youtube. The automotive channels are the same as marine because DC electrical is the same on land. I also plan to cruise when I retire in a couple years and I am outfitting my GB36 with a polishing system on the 2 main tanks and I am adding a 100G day tank to pump into and work from. Hoping that will allow me to clean up any fuel issues before they go to the day tank. Best of luck.