Key Bridge in Baltimore collapsed

[Comodave]

Can't post the image I want... Hopefully this will work.

There are many protective structures on the Tampa Bay bridge.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/...6137,-82.6575106,771m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

Long time ago the Tampa Bay Bridge was taken out by a ship. When they rebuilt the bridge they built small islands around the towers so it couldn’t happen again. Too bad this bridge didn’t have them.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Interesting that it had slowed to just 1.5 knots before it hit and was still able to cause that much damage.

Cosco Busan in the event above was doing 11 knots! They had initiated a turn to starboard; don't know how much energy that would dissipate.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Long time ago the Tampa Bay Bridge was taken out by a ship. When they rebuilt the bridge they built small islands around the towers so it couldn’t happen again. Too bad this bridge didn’t have them.

These little "fenders" appear in all the pix of the Key Bridge. Don't look terribly robust.

 

[AlaskaProf]

...nor effectively placed!

 

[dannc]

Long time ago the Tampa Bay Bridge was taken out by a ship. When they rebuilt the bridge they built small islands around the towers so it couldn’t happen again. Too bad this bridge didn’t have them.

Yep, that is why I mentioned the Tampa Bay Bridge. The structures around the Tampa Bay Bridge would make it very difficult for a ship to drop the bridge. Though, after watching the video of the ship taking out the cranes in a port, I wonder if the Tampa Bay protective structures are far enough from the bridge to handle the large, over hanging bows in today's ships.

 

[Nick F]

I am curious to see the existing ship impact risk assessment for this bridge.

 

[JDCAVE]

I would be curious of "Sailor of Fortune's" thoughts on the matter, but I understand it lost propulsion (diesel-electric turbine?).

None of the container vessels I have observed going under the Lionsgate Bridge in Vancouver are accompanied by Tugs. Tugs are used for docking and leaving the dock.

AFAIK, the role of the pilot is to oversee navigation and point out hazards. The are not responsible for the operation of the vessel.

Jim

 

[HopCar]

One can see the lights go out, then on, then out again, and during the power flickering, one could see a huge amount of black smoke. I also noticed the slow turn to starboard along with the vehicles on the bridge and wondered about prop walk. The ship is supposed to have dropped anchor as well.

Two pilots were reported to be on board.

I saw cars crossing and news reports say the ship sent out a Mayday which closed the bridge to traffic. Unfortunately there were work crews on the bridge, you can see the flashing yellow lights on some of the vehicles, and they apparently are the ones that went into the water.

The surprise to me was no protective structures for the bridge. One would have thought after the Tampa bridge disaster structures would have been built. Supposedly new bridges have to have the protective structures.

I think you got it, lack of protective structures. Called Dolphins? Should have learned that lesson from the Tampa Bay bridge.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I would be curious of "Sailor of Fortune's" thoughts on the matter, but I understand it lost propulsion (diesel-electric turbine?).

None of the container vessels I have observed going under the Lionsgate Bridge in Vancouver are accompanied by Tugs. Tugs are used for docking and leaving the dock.

AFAIK, the role of the pilot is to oversee navigation and point out hazards. The are not responsible for the operation of the vessel.

Jim

kind of going to hold off commenting/speculating on this....My company is mobilizing with lots of equipment headed that way soon..going to be lots of cutting and lifting steel for a bit..

 

[AlanT]

I'm wondering what the liability insurance policy would be for that kind of vessel. The president wants the federal government to build Baltimore a new bridge, but I would think the liability insurance policy would have to be in the billions to cover this kind of possibility.

Ted

I have been out of the industry for a few years, so these comments relate to situation a few years ago, likely still the same. 90% of the world's major commercial tonnage is entered (insured) in Mutual Protection and Indemnity clubs. These clubs provide limits of approx $2bn. They are backed with a number of layers of reinsurance. They provide only Liability coverage (ie liability for damage to other vessels/fixed objects) and not for damage to the vessel itself which would be insured elsewhere.
~A

 

[psneeld]

kind of going to hold off commenting/speculating on this....My company is mobilizing with lots of equipment headed that way soon..going to be lots of cutting and lifting steel for a bit..

Thank you for being professional and not speculating too much.

Also good luck and be careful.... collapses can be pretty tricky to dissect.

 

[JDCAVE]

kind of going to hold off commenting/speculating on this....My company is mobilizing with lots of equipment headed that way soon..going to be lots of cutting and lifting steel for a bit..

Thanks!

Jim

 

[Jklotz]

kind of going to hold off commenting/speculating on this....My company is mobilizing with lots of equipment headed that way soon..going to be lots of cutting and lifting steel for a bit..

When you can, I'd guess I'm not the only one here who would really appreciate your take on the whole mess.

 

[Nick F]

None of the container vessels I have observed going under the Lionsgate Bridge in Vancouver are accompanied by Tugs. Tugs are used for docking and leaving the dock.

Jim

The vessels passing under the Lions Gate Bridge (Vancouver) used to be accompanied by tugs some decades ago.

 

[BruceK]

Commiserations to all involved. Surprised by reports of similar incidents I recalled the Westgate Bridge in Hobart Tasmania being struck by the Lake Illawarra, and the ensuing mayhem including cars flying off the ends of the bridge where the missing span had been.
https://www.google.com/search?clien...ate=ive&vld=cid:5be9c90c,vid:WLLwCEIlDBk,st:0
I hope this ends as well as it can. There willl be much local disruption.

 

[luna]

The vessels passing under the Lions Gate Bridge (Vancouver) used to be accompanied by tugs some decades ago.

Yes, I remember that as well.

I passed by there this afternoon and was reminded that the North Pier is firmly beyond reach on dry land, while the South Pier is near shore but protected by Prospect Point to the West and some shoal water to the East.
That being said it likely is still possible to stab the bridge's tower with the pointy end of some of the big Cruise Ships before running aground, should the worst happen.

All ships and barges that pass East of the 2 bridges at 2nd Narrows or go through 3rd Narrows, have at least 2 assist tugs strapped to them at all times.

 

[Nick F]

Yes, I remember that as well.

I passed by there this afternoon and was reminded that the North Pier is firmly beyond reach on dry land, while the South Pier is near shore but protected by Prospect Point to the West and some shoal water to the East.
That being said it likely is still possible to stab the bridge's tower with the pointy end of some of the big Cruise Ships before running aground, should the worst happen.

All ships and barges that pass East of the 2 bridges at 2nd Narrows or go through 3rd Narrows, have at least 2 assist tugs strapped to them at all times.

I just saw on the news that some protection upgrades are in the works (already were, before this incident).

 

[lwarden]

Tragic situation, but one bright note: The ship was able to warn police of the situation and the police were quick to close the bridge off. I would not have figured that would have been able to be pulled off in time so kudos to the ship's communications and LEO in shutting it down or quite a few more lives would have been lost. Also, a good thing this happened in the middle of the night and not during rush hour....

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

When you can, I'd guess I'm not the only one here who would really appreciate your take on the whole mess.

My tug will be leaving NY with one of the cranes in the next couple of days. I am getting off the tug this morning for my month at home, so I won't see the worst of the scene first hand .It will still be a salvage scene when I return...

 

[Hippocampus]

Unfortunate situation. That passage is deep around the bridge and its supports. Up here in New England most ships would run aground before they would threaten the supports of the bridges. In the NY/NJ region either supports are surrounded by islands of rifraft or other material so vessels cannot reach supporting structure.
Think there’s a mismatch here. The bridge was built back in 1947 from what I heard. The size and nature of marine traffic was very different than at present. One would suspect if that bridge was built now it would be a suspension bridge with a very large center span. It would be protected by a massive fendering system.
Have been over and under that bridge. It’s very busy roadway for both vehicles and vessels. Beyond the tragedy of lives lost the economic impact will be huge. Beyond issues of culpability I’m quite interested in what can be done to mitigate that impact.
We have been transitioning the Delaware and Chesapeake on an average of twice a year. Always stay out of the shipping channels and wait for ships to go through when transiting a bridge even when not in their channel. But see small boats not respecting their limited ability to navigate even when they have power. It’s a blessing this event occurred when it did.
Been told ships require large distances to turn and stop. Given the apparent proximity of this vessel to the bridge when she lost power am I right to assume neither tugs nor the possible redundancies onboard would have prevented this event? Should there be a review of the host of bridges along the eastern seaboard vulnerability similar events and mitigating structures built. Should size of vessels be limited much like what has occurred with the Panama Canal?
The container ship wasn’t that large by current standards at ~1000’. Should shipping size allowed be varied in accordance to the nature of bridges?

 

[psneeld]

How old is the Key Bridge in Baltimore?
The Francis Scott Key Bridge opened in March 1977, according to the Maryland Transportation Authority.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/w...-about-collapsed-baltimore-bridge/ar-BB1kyiK4

Below are pictures of the Delaware Memorial Bridge (Delaware/South N Jersey) and Annapolis Bay Bridge. While the spans are much wider, note no tugs under DMB and not much fendering on either. Looks as if bow overhand could still strike uprights, maybe, maybe not.

Would guess this incident will spark panic and billions will be spent on improving fendering on some/many bridges.

 

[High Wire]

Just a guess but the number of bridges with shipping traffic but without adequate protection seems pretty high. Today’s video by TimBatSea up the C and D canal shows even the relatively new Route 1 cable stay bridge has none. Smaller container ships and tug/barges are common. All of the other bridges in the canal have none either. The probability of future allisions is low but the consequences are high.

 

[twistedtree]

From what I saw the bridge was finished in 1974, not 1947.

The bridge does/did seem particularly vulnerable. As others have pointed out, many bridges essentially have islands and shallows around the piers such that a ship will run aground before it can reach the piers. It's not terribly deep around those piers - in the 20-30 foot range - so artificial islands would not be out of the question. A series of pilings or dolphins would work too. There is one protective dolphin on each side on the approaches, but this ship managed to come in at an angle that missed, or just glanced the dolphin and hit a bulls eye on the pier.

It's also a bit alarming how the hit took out so much of the bridge in a domino effect. I wonder if more modern designs have weak points so one failing section doesn't take out everything.

The time from the first power failure (lights out is visible in the videos) to the strike is only about 5 minutes. I'm amazed that they were able to issue a Mayday, and get that turned into a stop of traffic on the bridge so quickly. My guess is that they have traffic lights that can be remotely controlled. You can see one last car driving past just before the strike. It's incredible there were not more casualties. Just imagine if it had been during rush hour rather than at 1:30 AM.

I would guess it will be at least a decade before there is a replacement bridge.

 

[psneeld]

Just a guess but the number of bridges with shipping traffic but without adequate protection seems pretty high. Today’s video by TimBatSea up the C and D canal shows even the relatively new Route 13 cable stay bridge has none. Smaller container ships and tug/barges are common. All of the other bridges in the canal have none either. The probability of future allisions is low but the consequences are high.

Good points.

From a few news reports, they reported the last similar incident was the Tampa Skyway in 1980. Though I read of others and had friends fly on the Mobile River AMTRAK bridge... like 7 bridge/vessel major incidents since 1972.

Several had pretty high fatality counts and I am sure huge costs to repair/replace.

So, a bit less than one per decade. Wonder how the DOT will weigh loss of life and costs.? Especially if they determine the costs of shutting down the economics involved.

Let's face it, insurance uses risk management, so does the government in some areas I know of.... wonder about this one.

 

[Benthic2]

Would a cargo ship still have steerage if the engine was not running ?

I was hoping the "black box" data and Bridge voice recordings to be released already. Surely those have been reviewed by now. Obviously the full review will take months or years but a preliminary review of that material would answer a lot of questions.

I wonder if we won't start having tugs hovering near bridges with vulnerable piers, or stopping car traffic when ships over "X" years old are passing underneath.

 

[long-cours.62]

"Ship over x years old"
? For you not yet 9 years old, like Dali, In witch case you will put her ? Old ship ?

 

[Crux]

Just a guess but the number of bridges with shipping traffic but without adequate protection seems pretty high. Today’s video by TimBatSea up the C and D canal shows even the relatively new Route 1 cable stay bridge has none. Smaller container ships and tug/barges are common. All of the other bridges in the canal have none either. The probability of future allisions is low but the consequences are high.

TimB is a solid guy, and so is this this fellow....excellent 'nuts&bolts' reporting.
Got his video start with Evergiven grounding in Suez...

 

[AlaskaProf]

Is it such that there are no assist tugs tethered to the ship while navigating in Baltimore Harbour? To me, that would seem odd.

If so, look for a procedural change soon.

There is certainly precedent.


Once-upon-a-time, tankers departing the Valdez, AK, crude terminal were escorted by tugs for the first 11 miles, to Potato Point. Since Good Friday, 1969, they have tugs all the way to Hinchinbrook Entrance, some 80 miles.


Similar requirement arriving/departing Cherry Point or March Point, Washington.

 

[AlanT]

Update on the insurance angle:

The Containership Dali is owned by Grace Ocean Pte Ltd and operated by Singapore ship manager, Synergy Marine Group, with manages about 660 ships. It is time-chartered to Maersk which has no involvement in the ship’s operation and is likely to join claimants as it loses the use of a vessel.

The vessel has liability insurance through The Britannia P&I club. Britannia is a Mutual P&I club (Protection and Indemnity). Britannia is one of a number of such clubs that have been around for hundreds of years providing liability coverage for shipowners and charterers. Historically these clubs mutualized (shared) their risks among the group which is known as the the International Group of P&I Clubs. Today the clubs still mutualize their risks but they also buy substantial reinsurance in the commercial markets.


Currently approximately $3 billion of reinsurance cover is available. It is a fair bet that substantially ALL the worlds reinsurers are participants in this reinsurance program.

The resulting claims against the P&I club will include damage to the bridge, disruption and loss of earnings to the port and to vessels prevented from entering/departing the port, loss of earning resulting from the loss of use of the roadway, injuries/deaths of the victims. Insurance experts are currently comparing the likely costs to those of the Costa Concordia disaster off the coast of Italy.

Britannia told the Financial Times that it was “working closely with the ship manager and relevant authorities to establish the facts and to help ensure that this situation is dealt with quickly and professionally.”

Chubb is the lead market for property placement on the Francis Scott Key Bridge, according to a report by Insurance Insider.

The replacement cost of the bridge has been estimated at ~$600M. That would initially be paid by Federal funds & Property Insurance, and those payments would then be likely recoverable from the Brittania P&I club.
~A

 

[AlaskaProf]

There is certainly precedent.


Since Good Friday, 1969,

OOPS: 1989