Down East Loop tips needed

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mijmoto said:
Hi Twistetree,

Our expectations were that the resources at each lock were well maintained and functional. We expected to dock, call in on the provided phone and watch the monitor and lights for instructions. What we found was that the phones at the provided docks didn't work. The monitors provided misleading information or were nonfunctional and one of the docks was difficult to use as there was a strong enough current to make getting off the dock in a single engine boat difficult. All of the reading we had done indicated that you should not call the locks on the radio. We did as we didn't know what else to do.
The effective procedure at each lock was different. One lockmaster acknowledged our radio call with the lights and another answered our call. Next time we will not dock at the one location where the current was difficult. We were fortunate that there was not much traffic for our passage. Perhaps this might be different if there were several boats waiting.

The above may sound like a complaint. It is not as I have come to realize that one takes what is available and makes the best of it. This makes boating interesting and fun for the crew of Rincon Feliz!
Click to expand...


Was this for the commercial locks on the St Lawrence, or the Rideau, or the Erie?


Thanks
 
This was for the commercial locks. Completely different story for the Erie and Champlain locks. Jim
 
Down East Loop 2022

We absolutely loved our Down East Loop adventure. We left Wilmington, NC in our 34’ (39’ LOA) Mainship in late April and returned in early November. We met some great people along the way (a few have already responded here). Our air draft is 18’ (16’ with radar mast lowered). We didn’t have to lower our mast on the route we took (Erie canal to Oswego). The only bad current we encountered was while traveling up to Montreal City (pushing the Yanmar 370 to 3200 RPM while traveling at 2 knots (this is an optional side trip)). We met up with and travelled with a 55’ Fleming for about a month. Their only problem was finding docks large enough to accommodate them. We didn’t have any problems with dockage. We docked and anchored about 50/50. We would have preferred more anchorages, but as others have pointed out, the St. Lawrence Seaway can be a bit rolly at anchorages. There were days when we travelled (9 hours) and didn’t see another vessel. I would highly recommend this trip (not necessarily in a 34’ Mainship :)). Let me know if you have specific concerns/questions or would like any of our GPX route files (we draft just under 4’). Todd

BC29755C-6859-4F3F-8BED-A7FE81352009.jpg
 
mijmoto said:
Hi Twistetree,

Our expectations were that the resources at each lock were well maintained and functional. We expected to dock, call in on the provided phone and watch the monitor and lights for instructions. What we found was that the phones at the provided docks didn't work. The monitors provided misleading information or were nonfunctional and one of the docks was difficult to use as there was a strong enough current to make getting off the dock in a single engine boat difficult. All of the reading we had done indicated that you should not call the locks on the radio. We did as we didn't know what else to do.
The effective procedure at each lock was different. One lockmaster acknowledged our radio call with the lights and another answered our call. Next time we will not dock at the one location where the current was difficult. We were fortunate that there was not much traffic for our passage. Perhaps this might be different if there were several boats waiting.

The above may sound like a complaint. It is not as I have come to realize that one takes what is available and makes the best of it. This makes boating interesting and fun for the crew of Rincon Feliz!
Click to expand...



Which lock did you find the current difficult?

John
 
It was St. Catherines heading down stream to Montreal. The dock is configured differently than Google maps shows so your beam is to the current. The attached photo is small so difficult to see the current on the floats. Jim
 

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I also had difficulty at St Catherine's. The small boat dock is next to the intake for the lock. My lesson: don't try to approach the dock when the lock is being filled.
 
mijmoto said:
Surely you didn't do the Rideau in a 68 Nordy! We were fortunate at St Catherine's as there was no one else there. Took a bit of effort to get our single out of there. Next time (probably not) I will just hold station in the canal. Jim
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No, a Grand Banks 47.
 
twistedtree said:
We got into trouble at that same lock. It's covered about half way through this post https://www.mvtanglewood.com/2012/06/st-anne-de-bellevue.html
Click to expand...
Just read your blog. I encountered the same situation, and flunked the go/no test. I probably could have aborted, but it would have been really dicy. So I went for it aggressively. Probably my most harrowing experience so far on Escapade.

I managed to get perfectly square with the dock and stopped before I hit it hard going sideways. Had both thrusters going to fight the current. I was well fendered, but the metal dock had high cleats welded right at the edge, and they made contact with the topsides. Bad cleat placement. I have two scars on my topsides in remembrance. It could have been far worse. I briefly had visions of hitting the corner of the dock going sideways, which would have been very nasty.

When I was there that dock was metal, not like the one shown in Jim's picture. It was very unforgiving. I don't have a picture of the dock so I'll show a picture of the scar [emoji3] The front one is worse.

IMG_20220803_123439719_HDR.jpg
 
Hello all,
Thank you for your advice and help to navigate the first adventure for the Hummingbird.
She is arriving at the port of Baltimore Friday night at 1700 after leaving Taiwan on December 18th through the Suez Canal. After two weeks of training with Burr Yacht Sales in Edgewater, MD. My landlubber wife and I are committed to doing the Down East Loop as the shake-down trip. The pearls of the journey and the caution and encouragement thought this string has been sobering and at the same time exciting. The details and links to other threads and references have begun the collection of books and links and articles that we will refer to often. I especially liked the tips on locks along the way. Please keep the personal experiences and advice coming and of course places of interest along the way. Pictures and stories to follow.
 
Greetings,
Mr. tt. I well remember running up the channel into the Old Port of Montreal after exiting the lock at Saint Lambert.


34' Marine Trader (single engine). Throttle pinned, black smoke belching astern and making less than 1mph (took almost an hour to cover the 1 mile into old port of Montreal. Out top speed was 7 knots)


The channel was at least 500yds wide yet faster boats would pass within 50' throwing a large wake. The concrete wall on our starboard side came pretty close, at times.


Only issue we had with the locks (St. L) was we were thrown a line (3/8") from above but had a boat rafted to us and with the wild current from the lock emptying it was all I could do to hold. Thank the gods that our cleats AND the line held. I was a lot younger and stronger then. Don't think I could hold even a 34'er in place now. I don't recall any issues going in the other direction.


The Admiral got her degree at McGill (Ste. Anne de Bellevue).
 
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JBMACQ said:
Hello all,
Thank you for your advice and help to navigate the first adventure for the Hummingbird.
She is arriving at the port of Baltimore Friday night at 1700 after leaving Taiwan on December 18th through the Suez Canal. After two weeks of training with Burr Yacht Sales in Edgewater, MD. My landlubber wife and I are committed to doing the Down East Loop as the shake-down trip.
Click to expand...


Lots of "shake-down" destinations right here in Burr territory.

We kept our previous boat in the marina next door... that Burr also uses for overflow... so it was always easy to watch for new deliveries whenever Burr got one in. Nifty.

And it was always fun to watch the training sessions!

Anyway, you could easily spend your first year on the Chesapeake, be gone from the marina all the time, and never visit the same place twice...

Throw a dart: Annapolis, Galesville, Deale, Chesapeake Beach, Solomons, Cambridge, Oxford, Knapp's Narrows (Tilghman Island) St. Michaels, Kent Narrows, Rock Hall, Chestertown, Fairlee Creek, Georgetown, Chesapeake City, Havre d'Grace, Bal'mer... and that's just the northern part of the Bay.

And then "Cruising the Chesapeake - A Gunkholer's Guide" by Bill Shellenberger can fill in all the blanks about anchorages. Can't hardly move a boat around here without finding a decent anchorage.

-Chris
 
You mentioned books. If it has not been mentioned I recommend Cheryl Barr's book "The Down East Circle Loop" (https://www.amazon.com/Down-East-Circle-Route/dp/0973165928). This book is essential for the trip. She goes into great detail about timing the tides and currents of the St Lawrence. This something you want to get right. Also the Canadian equivalent of NOAA offers a couple of tide and current charts that are available online that give a graphical representation of the advice in Cheryl's book. This simplifies the understanding of the strategies of timing the tides and currents. The Canadian Atlas of Tidal Currents is a very useful link: https://charts.gc.ca/publications/atlas-eng.html. There is a lot of good stuff between these two documents. Jim
 
mijmoto said:
You mentioned books. If it has not been mentioned I recommend Cheryl Barr's book "The Down East Circle Loop" (https://www.amazon.com/Down-East-Circle-Route/dp/0973165928). This book is essential for the trip. She goes into great detail about timing the tides and currents of the St Lawrence. This something you want to get right. Also the Canadian equivalent of NOAA offers a couple of tide and current charts that are available online that give a graphical representation of the advice in Cheryl's book. This simplifies the understanding of the strategies of timing the tides and currents. The Canadian Atlas of Tidal Currents is a very useful link: https://charts.gc.ca/publications/atlas-eng.html. There is a lot of good stuff between these two documents. Jim
Click to expand...


:thumb: Yes, very important.
 
Greetings,
Every marina we stayed at from Sorel (aprox.) to Tadoussack (Saguenay fjord) had slips of paper with vessel speed and effects of current both up stream and downstream from the marina location.


eg: If your vessel goes 6 knots and you want to get to location "X" (upstream or downstream) leave this marina so many hours before/after high/low tide to make best use of tidal effects.


One stretch above Quebec City we were running with the tide and hit 14 knots so a 7 knot current. I suspect going in the opposite direction 0 knots.
 
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mijmoto said:
It was St. Catherines heading down stream to Montreal. The dock is configured differently than Google maps shows so your beam is to the current. The attached photo is small so difficult to see the current on the floats. Jim
Click to expand...



Thanks, will pencil it in my Down East Circle Route book.

John
 
My recollection is that the current always flow towards the ocean, even on a flood tide. On a flood tide, it just doesn't flow as fast. Does that sound right?
 
twistedtree said:
My recollection is that the current always flow towards the ocean, even on a flood tide. On a flood tide, it just doesn't flow as fast. Does that sound right?
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that the current does change directions. Up by Montreal not at all but by the time you are past Trois Riverie there is a tidal impact. A quick look at the tidal charts would confirm that! Jim

Took a look at the tables and see that the tidal current reversal doesn't show up till Portneuf. One of the key takeaways however is that wind from the east against the current is very unpleasant indeed! Jim
 
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mijmoto said:
I am pretty sure that the current does change directions. Up by Montreal not at all but by the time you are past Trois Riverie there is a tidal impact. A quick look at the tidal charts would confirm that! Jim

Took a look at the tables and see that the tidal current reversal doesn't show up till Portneuf. One of the key takeaways however is that wind from the east against the current is very unpleasant indeed! Jim
Click to expand...

In Quebec City you can see it during winter months when drift ice is going "backwards" !
 
RT Firefly said:
The channel was at least 500yds wide yet faster boats would pass within 50' throwing a large wake. The concrete wall on our starboard side came pretty close, at times.
Click to expand...

I've found close fast passing to be the norm in Quebec, and have had a few encounters on Quebec rivers that I thought were dangerously close.

I was coming up through there trying to stay as far right as I could, running parallel to the wall with a gap of maybe 50'. Guy in a 30' cruiser passes on my right at speed, threading the needle. Crazy.

Only issue we had with the locks (St. L) was we were thrown a line (3/8") from above but had a boat rafted to us and with the wild current from the lock emptying it was all I could do to hold. Thank the gods that our cleats AND the line held. I was a lot younger and stronger then. Don't think I could hold even a 34'er in place now.
Click to expand...

Coming down the Welland recently I was reminded of the stupidity of that system. At the bottom of the lock those lines have very little value. The seaway doesn't go out of its way to accomodate small boats.

Thrusters are very useful and take most of the stress out of holding position against the wall in my experience. Without them it can be a handful.
 
Well, we finished the Down East Loop. 3008 miles from Annapolis to Annapolis through Oswego. Thanks for your advice and encouragement. Locks were a challenge, but got the hang of it after the first three, and better refined after 31. Height was an issue to watch carefully clearing at 19' 6". The Sky Hook (position hold) became the go-to for our boat which kept us 3 feet from the walls and held steady.
 
JBMACQ said:
Well, we finished the Down East Loop. 3008 miles from Annapolis to Annapolis through Oswego. Thanks for your advice and encouragement. Locks were a challenge, but got the hang of it after the first three, and better refined after 31. Height was an issue to watch carefully clearing at 19' 6". The Sky Hook (position hold) became the go-to for our boat which kept us 3 feet from the walls and held steady.
Click to expand...



Congrats. That’s a great accomplishment.

What were the highlights and low lights?
 
highlights were Quebec City.. we loved it so much that we made an offer to buy a little place in the Old City. We couldn't leave we loved it so much. On the other end of the spectrum, we loved Clayton, NY. What a perfect town oriented to the water and with enough money to have all the infrastructure to bring back the historic houses and waterfront retail and restaurants. Bummer was the Wooden Boat Museum which was very extensive, was closed except a couple of days a week and we were not there on those days. The fiords of Tadoussac, Quebec were remarkable with their 1,000

Another Highlight was Sydney, in Cape Briton Nova Scotia. Being Scottish, the Gaelic College was one of a kind and as you read others who have been in that neck of the woods, Bras d'Ors Lake was remarkable and it takes 6 hours to go from one end to the other. Baddeck along the way is such a classic village you can not repeat it anywhere and the Alexander Bell Museum was fascinating.
Lunenburg, Nova Scotia is another village you can not replicate. Deeply based in the history of fishing and taken to a whole new level with Great food choices and architecture
Prince Edward Island and Charlottetown are again unbelievable. Overall we found the people of the Maritimes very very warm and always accommodating going out of their way to make sure you are comfortable.
We loved Newport and we hated the dodging of the Lobster Pots in Maine north of Portland. T
he Electronic Maps for Furuno was shockingly accurate and the Windy App gave us clear information to keep us ahead of the weather. I could go on. Having never cruised before and going from a 22-foot Bowrider to this epic journey was
the right choice for a strong Shakedown on the factory fresh Fleming 65. The only problem was a Master Bedroom blower that we were able to fix in Sydney with a friend of a friend of the Harbour Master that set us back $150. Gotta love the USD and CDN dollar exchange rates.
 
Nice list. Congratulations, and best wishes for your future voyages.

Quebec City is just as vibrant in the winter as the summer. I'm sure you'll enjoy future time there.
 
Down East Loop

We bought our Fleming, Lady Gov, in Maine and received our training in Edgewater last summer. We are now in Florida and want to do the loop this summer. We are curious if you completed the Down East Loop and if you had any height issues or depth issues. Please feel free to call or email at your convenience. Wade
 
We are going to do the Downeast Loop in 2025. Going to learn our new to us N46 this summer.

Steve Zimmerman of Zimmerman Boatyards has given a presentation on the DownEast Loop a couple of times at Trawler Fest. I beleive it might be on his yard's website. Worthy of reading--it's a PowerPoint presentation. He did the Loop in a Fleming 55 or 65. I can't recall which model. He and his wife.
 
Captain_Michael said:
We are going to do the Downeast Loop in 2025. Going to learn our new to us N46 this summer.

Steve Zimmerman of Zimmerman Boatyards has given a presentation on the DownEast Loop a couple of times at Trawler Fest. I beleive it might be on his yard's website. Worthy of reading--it's a PowerPoint presentation. He did the Loop in a Fleming 55 or 65. I can't recall which model. He and his wife.
Click to expand...

You will have to forego the Rideau with your draft, but otherwise I'm sure you will have a great time. We did it in 2012 or so.

Will you go out through the Erie Canal & Lk Ontario, or go up through Champlain?
 
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