First Boat Confusion - Insurance & Boat Length Help

[Omikeoreilly]

This is good advice. I bought a GB.42 the only boat I had prior was a 27 ft. Pearson commander.20 years ago.I hired a captain and we spent many days working on the fundamental's .USCG Safe boating course was also a help. As well as safe driving record I am sure played a role.Chubb is a great place to start

 

[surge]

You can get from the Gulf of Mexico all the way up the Apalachicola River to Columbus GA. There are marinas.

I myself would not go any further with training until you know what is expected of you with an insurance company. Put your money towards a known end goal.

Insurance companies put a lot of weight in home ownership, credit ratings, driving records and past claim history.

Will do, that's our next step is to pound out everything we can with insurance companies before we book anything else. Will lookup that route, very interesting prospect. We should be in great financial shape, and no major claims.

There have been some suggestions on what size boat to buy. I always tell people if they are going to only own a couple of boats to buy the last boat first. We have owned 24 boats as of now and trading boats is seldom a money maker. Decide what size and type you want by looking at lots of boats. Then buy what you want and spend adequate time learning how to properly handle the boat. If you buy a smaller boat to learn on you will loose a lot of money trading up to the boat you really want. Just get a captain to teach you how to run it. Then spend some time in protected waters practicing. And gradually work your way up to more challenging situations. You will be way ahead in the long run and actually have the boat you want.

Just like in the RV world, we expected to lose money, and did, but our trips were worth every penny. We had two 3 month trips across the country and countless other smaller ones.

However, you did hit a concern and that's buying a smaller boat that doesn't last but maybe a year, and suddenly having to flip it. Our last RV we sold was our 3rd coach, so I'm pretty well versed in the market at this point. Not with boats! Thanks for your perspective.

This is good advice. I bought a GB.42 the only boat I had prior was a 27 ft. Pearson commander.20 years ago.I hired a captain and we spent many days working on the fundamental's .USCG Safe boating course was also a help. As well as safe driving record I am sure played a role.Chubb is a great place to start

Another vote for Chubb, will reach out to them.

 

[surge]

Not sure you answered the question about your location.

Here is school in Florida. Which may be closer than the PNW

https://www.swfyachts.com/cruising-school

Call them as there are so many different options.

I sent this link to my wife, and apparently she's already talked to them. I guess they got fairly wiped out from hurricane Ian. They just started limited operations like and only have two motor yachts available. She's still waiting on a call back, but no trawlers there for now.

 

[ranger58sb]

I sent this link to my wife, and apparently she's already talked to them. I guess they got fairly wiped out from hurricane Ian. They just started limited operations like and only have two motor yachts available. She's still waiting on a call back, but no trawlers there for now.

FWIW, training on a motor yacht or a trawler would be maybe 95% identical.

-Chris

 

[Action]

I sent this link to my wife, and apparently she's already talked to them. I guess they got fairly wiped out from hurricane Ian. They just started limited operations like and only have two motor yachts available. She's still waiting on a call back, but no trawlers there for now.

They did get wiped out badly by Ian. They were down for about a year and re-opened last fall. Nice people.

You will be there for training not buying. Not sure there is going to be much difference on handling a 40+ single hulled power vessel.

 

[mvweebles]

That'll be great if they don't require a Captain they specify, I'd like to find a good instructor that connects well with my wife, as we want to make sure she gets equal training and confidence.

Years ago when I was a presenter at TrawlerFest, I met Linda Lewis, a co-preeenter who did training and had enthusiastic references, especially from women (women often learn differently than men so a teacher who can adjust is very helpful) . She still has an active website and is based in the PNW so maybe she's still around. Might be a good start for a lead on a captain. She's certainly been around for a while.

https://www.privateboatinginstruction.com/#

Peter

 

[surge]

Years ago when I was a presenter at TrawlerFest, I met Linda Lewis, a co-preeenter who did training and had enthusiastic references, especially from women (women often learn differently than men so a teacher who can adjust is very helpful) . She still has an active website and is based in the PNW so maybe she's still around. Might be a good start for a lead on a captain. She's certainly been around for a while.

https://www.privateboatinginstruction.com/#

Peter

Will check her out. Depends on where our boat ends up I suppose as well, but I like the idea of having someone like that for my wife.

 

[surge]

Can't thank you guys enough for recommending Peter at Novamar. He answered the phone when I called and got me "pre-approved" with a 42' temp vessel with 36 hour Captain training/sign off. I think the initial policy was about 2k for the year with that place holder boat.

Honestly I'm a bit stunned still. I was expecting way worse and also haven't received a single call back from anyone I reached out to Friday. I did get an email with an example policy from one group, but that doesn't help me much with the questions I had.

Anyone have any training Captain suggestions that would be good to connect with my wife and has the credentials?

 

[tiltrider1]

Jack DeFriel. He has a web sight and he is approved by all of Peter’s underwriters.

 

[Comodave]

Can't thank you guys enough for recommending Peter at Novamar. He answered the phone when I called and got me "pre-approved" with a 42' temp vessel with 36 hour Captain training/sign off. I think the initial policy was about 2k for the year with that place holder boat.

Honestly I'm a bit stunned still. I was expecting way worse and also haven't received a single call back from anyone I reached out to Friday. I did get an email with an example policy from one group, but that doesn't help me much with the questions I had.

Anyone have any training Captain suggestions that would be good to connect with my wife and has the credentials?

Glad it is working out for you. Peter was awesome when I needed help. He knows his stuff.

 

[PierreR]

Can't thank you guys enough for recommending Peter at Novamar. He answered the phone when I called and got me "pre-approved" with a 42' temp vessel with 36 hour Captain training/sign off. I think the initial policy was about 2k for the year with that place holder boat.

Honestly I'm a bit stunned still. I was expecting way worse and also haven't received a single call back from anyone I reached out to Friday. I did get an email with an example policy from one group, but that doesn't help me much with the questions I had.

Anyone have any training Captain suggestions that would be good to connect with my wife and has the credentials?

Now you know and can plan.

 

[Capt Ray]

+1 Peter Ricks at Novamar. "He knows the ropes."

 

[Omikeoreilly]

I would recommend Art Cunningham 203-470-9353 He is in North Carolina now. He helped my wife and I a great deal. He might travel.

 

[bumpkin]

2 years ago I was in the same boat, err place, as you. We got our insurance from Geico, it was a simple and straightforward process. The price was 2,000ish per year and it was our only dealing with Geico so no bundling to make the price lower. They pegged the insured value to the price we paid for our boat.

I say 'ish' because Geico added charges. Geico gave us a really far north hurricane line, roughly the North Carolina-Virginia state line and we were below the line when the season started. They were still happy to insure but it almost trebled our premiums, which went back down when we made the line. We also took a wonderful trip to the Bahamas which doubled our premiums and they too came back down when we returned to the US.

At the time we berthed our boat at Hilton Head. The marina recommended a wonderful captain to teach us the ropes. We hired him a couple of times a week until he thought we were proficient enough to not sink. It worked perfectly for us. We took off and did the loop and a variety of side trips all without much drama.

You are closer than you think, so don't get discouraged.

Mike

 

[AlanT]

I have a suggestion. Pursue your goal boat and the insurance to go along with it. But if you continue to get pushback, simultaneously and as soon as reasonably possible start establishing a 'ladder'. Even experienced sailors get hit when we move to a boat more than 10' (or so) larger than our last one. I got hit with this when I went from 34' - 49' then again when I went from 53' to 72'. I can document ownership history, ocean crossings and no claims back 50 years but no matter I got dinged in rating (i am retired from the marine ins industry so have a fair appreciation of rating). So if I were in your shoes, I would buy, right now, a 30-35' sail or motor boat. It won't cost much and could be fun. Keep it for a year, keep your log. Reapply after you can document safe ownership.

As others have said there is a big difference in coverage between what a "homeowners insurer" such as SF or Chubb etc will offer by way of coverage and Yacht insurance. Your broker is your friend. Others have recommended a good broker who will work hard for you. I have had super representation from my E Coast broker over a variety of boats and navigation limits.

Good luck!
~A

 

[slowgoesit]

Can't thank you guys enough for recommending Peter at Novamar. He answered the phone when I called and got me "pre-approved" with a 42' temp vessel with 36 hour Captain training/sign off. I think the initial policy was about 2k for the year with that place holder boat.

Honestly I'm a bit stunned still. I was expecting way worse and also haven't received a single call back from anyone I reached out to Friday. I did get an email with an example policy from one group, but that doesn't help me much with the questions I had.

Anyone have any training Captain suggestions that would be good to connect with my wife and has the credentials?

Another happy customer and friend of Peter Ricks here! We started out as a business acquaintance, and we now count him and his wife as friends.

Since you are handy, consider this boat, advertised in the classified section:

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/albin-40-trawler-70365.html

Check some, but not all of your blocks. Great starter boat, can't beat the price, and it'll do Loop or Bahama's no sweat. It IS a single though, and you said your looking for a dual engine.

On Flybridge, if you are NOT planning on doing the Bahamas, I wouldn't get too wrapped up over not having a flying bridge. But that's just me. Best of luck!


One last item. If the boat you buy is some distance from what your home base will be, consider hiring a "delivery/trainer" captain for part or all of the trip. You will a lot more value out of an actual trip IMHO, than in a few, couple of hour trips out of the marina.

 

[surge]

I would recommend Art Cunningham 203-470-9353 He is in North Carolina now. He helped my wife and I a great deal. He might travel.

Thank you, will reach out to a few more suggestions here. Of all the places I reached out prior to posting, I never got a call back. I did get that one email, but no other follow up.

2 years ago I was in the same boat, err place, as you. We got our insurance from Geico, it was a simple and straightforward process. The price was 2,000ish per year and it was our only dealing with Geico so no bundling to make the price lower. They pegged the insured value to the price we paid for our boat.

I say 'ish' because Geico added charges. Geico gave us a really far north hurricane line, roughly the North Carolina-Virginia state line and we were below the line when the season started. They were still happy to insure but it almost trebled our premiums, which went back down when we made the line. We also took a wonderful trip to the Bahamas which doubled our premiums and they too came back down when we returned to the US.

At the time we berthed our boat at Hilton Head. The marina recommended a wonderful captain to teach us the ropes. We hired him a couple of times a week until he thought we were proficient enough to not sink. It worked perfectly for us. We took off and did the loop and a variety of side trips all without much drama.

You are closer than you think, so don't get discouraged.

Mike

You guys have been so encouraging and also engaging with Peter. It for sure re-energized us that we can do it and it doesn't have to be such an uphill climb.

Another happy customer and friend of Peter Ricks here! We started out as a business acquaintance, and we now count him and his wife as friends.

Since you are handy, consider this boat, advertised in the classified section:

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s9/albin-40-trawler-70365.html

Check some, but not all of your blocks. Great starter boat, can't beat the price, and it'll do Loop or Bahama's no sweat. It IS a single though, and you said your looking for a dual engine.

On Flybridge, if you are NOT planning on doing the Bahamas, I wouldn't get too wrapped up over not having a flying bridge. But that's just me. Best of luck!


One last item. If the boat you buy is some distance from what your home base will be, consider hiring a "delivery/trainer" captain for part or all of the trip. You will a lot more value out of an actual trip IMHO, than in a few, couple of hour trips out of the marina.

We're in that phase, I've been looking at boats on the classifieds and will check out that Albin. We joined the AGLCA and hop to do a looper crawl and also be able to get some feedback on what folks like/don't like that are actively using their boats on the loop.

Peter said we'd have to get a delivery captain for sure, and we'd want to be there for the whole thing to get the experience and learn as much as possible. I'm with you on learning a lot more than that over just being near our marina.

 

[Osprey69]

I have a suggestion. Pursue your goal boat and the insurance to go along with it. But if you continue to get pushback, simultaneously and as soon as reasonably possible start establishing a 'ladder'. Even experienced sailors get hit when we move to a boat more than 10' (or so) larger than our last one. I got hit with this when I went from 34' - 49' then again when I went from 53' to 72'. I can document ownership history, ocean crossings and no claims back 50 years but no matter I got dinged in rating (i am retired from the marine ins industry so have a fair appreciation of rating). So if I were in your shoes, I would buy, right now, a 30-35' sail or motor boat. It won't cost much and could be fun. Keep it for a year, keep your log. Reapply after you can document safe ownership.

As others have said there is a big difference in coverage between what a "homeowners insurer" such as SF or Chubb etc will offer by way of coverage and Yacht insurance. Your broker is your friend. Others have recommended a good broker who will work hard for you. I have had super representation from my E Coast broker over a variety of boats and navigation limits.

Good luck!
~A

This..."Pre-approved" may be great today, but as I found out, the insurance landscape changed rapidly under my feet these last few years and I suspect it will continue to do so around here. Do not give them an excuse to refuse in the future and buy a boat, or buy into a boat, sooner than later.

 

[a_real_journey]

There have been some suggestions on what size boat to buy. I always tell people if they are going to only own a couple of boats to buy the last boat first. We have owned 24 boats as of now and trading boats is seldom a money maker. Decide what size and type you want by looking at lots of boats. Then buy what you want and spend adequate time learning how to properly handle the boat. If you buy a smaller boat to learn on you will loose a lot of money trading up to the boat you really want. Just get a captain to teach you how to run it. Then spend some time in protected waters practicing. And gradually work your way up to more challenging situations. You will be way ahead in the long run and actually have the boat you want.

Comodave, I'm new on this site and still dreaming of days to come with a boat. However, I've seen this comment from you a couple of times, and it makes a lot of sense to me. I definitely flirted with the idea (and an actual boat for sale) that would have been considerably smaller than the one my wife and I would like to loop in. It was a nice boat but not a smokin' deal. We would have probably lost more money buying and later upgrading than we would "buying our last boat first" and hiring a (very expensive) captain to teach us how to operate it.

 

[motteatoj]

Hey all,

New to the forum and looking for some feedback from real people. My wife and I are moving from a motorhome (already sold) and looking to get on the water. Been talking about it over a year and set a goal of getting a boat end of 2024.

We've done our ASA sailing certs on a 42ft Catamaran in December as our two favorite boats are cats and trawlers. (Leopard cat and Selene trawler being our wish boats). We loved doing the class, it was a week long live abord class in USVI, and we plan on doing a trawler school as well (also a week on a Selene is PNW). And doing some bareboat charters to test out boats we're interested and build resume.

Our issue is that the cat's beam and complexities of dockage, fees, haul-outs, etc., are quite challenging. So, we’re leaning more towards a trawler for our first boat to simplify things and learn the nuances of a powered boat (with a smaller beam). For more information and insurance advice, you might want to contact Progressive Insurance. We can use the Great Loop or parts of it, which suits our remote work situation and occasional flights. Our ideal boat size is around 45ft, but we understand our first boat might need to be smaller. We'd like to start with a more affordable option to gain experience before investing in our long-term boat.

To get to the point, we've seen and heard countless times that new boat owners can't get insurance. I've left messages with 3 insurance brokers waiting for call backs. The receptionist at one said typically their policies require 1 year with a Captain if we tried to buy a 45ft boat... like what? I could see 20-40 hours required, but that's crazy for a 45ft boat. I see constant posts on this, both here and other forums about a 10ft rule and moving up 10ft. But nobody is saying what that first boat size is to start with? Can I start on a 35ft boat? then jump up 10ft after a year or so? Is it 30ft to start? This is making it much harder to narrow down scope of boats I'm interesting in for a starter.

So looking for any feedback on this. As of now, I've only chartered some pontoon and deck boats around Florida, and done our week long sailing course. So my resume is weak.

Thanks for any feedback.

I need some advice from you all. Geico/Boat US has sent me a renewal notice for my 1987 General Marine, but they’ve reduced its value from $35,000 to $28,900. When I called, they said my boat was overvalued at their previous quote and mentioned that they would accept a new survey value. I’ve been with Boat US since 1992 and am hesitant to switch, but this situation has left me feeling uneasy. Can anyone recommend a reputable marine insurance agency for some guidance? Thanks!

 

[sjisailor]

It would help to know slightly more. Where are you located and where do you typically cruise?

 

[tiltrider1]

I can still recommend Peter at Novamar Seattle. You will still need a survey.

You didn’t mention where the boat is located or what you are paying. Insurance is currently doing a catch up and rates are increasing significantly right now.

 

[fgarriso]

I can see a 40' boat as a good starter boat with your sail training and USPS seamanship's training. It shouldn't take a lot of hours to get signed off.

 

[Comodave]

Comodave, I'm new on this site and still dreaming of days to come with a boat. However, I've seen this comment from you a couple of times, and it makes a lot of sense to me. I definitely flirted with the idea (and an actual boat for sale) that would have been considerably smaller than the one my wife and I would like to loop in. It was a nice boat but not a smokin' deal. We would have probably lost more money buying and later upgrading than we would "buying our last boat first" and hiring a (very expensive) captain to teach us how to operate it.

No problem. I only wish I could take my own advice but I like to trade boats. I did keep one for about 8 years though…

 

[psneeld]

I gotta say....but really I would love to see your resume of boats and boating over the last 20 years or more before I say too much.

I was a nearly retired USCG senior officer with one liveaboard already under my belt with WAYYYYYY more time/experience than necessary to have my 100 Ton masters (hadn't taken the course yet), plus boating experience in the Mid Atlantic, Florida/Carribean and Alaska. Also sea time from the Arctic circle to the Antarctic on both sides of the N&S American continent when I applied for insurance for my second big boat/liveaboard. The insurance companies for my second liveaboard were very restrictive when I lived on the Chesapeake in Annapolis. They restricted my boating to JUST the Chesapeake without rate increases or deductible increases.

So yes, everyone here has their own stories of experience vesus insurance...but from my point of view...unless you have owned and operated vessels 30-40 feet for decades, requiring a captain for a year learning a 45 footer isn't unreasonable to me. Remember, getting yacht policy insurance from 5-10 years ago is not the same as now, it is much more difficult, so anecdotal insurance stories are just that.

After 13+ years as an assistance tower, I can emphatically side with the insurance companies as very few boaters I know have the experience to long distance cruise and operate vessels more than 30 feet or so. Sure

 

[Comodave]

I need some advice from you all. Geico/Boat US has sent me a renewal notice for my 1987 General Marine, but they’ve reduced its value from $35,000 to $28,900. When I called, they said my boat was overvalued at their previous quote and mentioned that they would accept a new survey value. I’ve been with Boat US since 1992 and am hesitant to switch, but this situation has left me feeling uneasy. Can anyone recommend a reputable marine insurance agency for some guidance? Thanks!

We had Boat/US which turned to Geico for over 45 years. Geico did something similar to this to us. I added over $60K in one year to our current boat. I wanted to increase the coverage on the boat and they said that it was worth way less than the coverage we had already. It was as if they wanted to get rid of us. I called Peter Ricks and told him the story. He said that Geico did indeed want to get rid of us because they were changing their business plan. Peter got us more coverage than I had asked Geico for and we didn’t need a survey. He did a great job.