diesel heater ducting

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so the tank vents are on top of the tank? no, tanks are completely sealed away by insulation panels. there's no vertical clearance at all. I think the vent should into led to outside, but didn't see any hole from the topside.
 
exhaust location

the installation recommends to place the exhaust in the green zone, i.e. aft of the widest part of the boat. The lazarette settee has space under, but the most convenient exhaust location for installation there would be through the nearby hull. that is not in the green zone.

Screenshot 2023-11-10 102220.jpg

also, on each side of boat there is one cabin vent on the bow near the outside of lazarette, another cabin vent a bit aft of the middle (widest part) of boat. exhaust should be far away from these vents. where do you see is a good place for exhaust?

IMG20231110123741.jpg
 
You can replace the glow plug, thermocouple, and "innards" of the combustion chamber in just a few minutes and they provide good information for freeing a "stuck" (gummed up) fuel pump but you can't replace the fuel pump itself or the controller board in the field.

Those two items need to be "married" to each other because the fuel pump needs to be calibrated and those values need to be calculate and installed into the controller board at a service shop-- you have to ship your heater back to the shop if either of those items goes bad. And of course Murphy says you will find that out when everyone else is also starting to use their heaters at the beginning of the cold season so the shop queue time can be long. Ask me how I know......
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Carriage Guy, I found out the part about a Wallas heater fuel pump not being able to be disassembled and being calibrated to the control board just days before your post. In testing our systems before we head South over the Thanksgiving holiday, I ran the heater a couple of weeks ago and while it seemed a little finicky to get started, I assumed it was because it hadn't been run for several months. I tried it again a week later and it wouldn't ignite. I could see the fuel in the clear plastic fuel line pulsating with every beat of the pump but it remained static and wouldn't reach the burner. Upon examining the pump , I found that the tiny copper disc that the pump uses as a check valve had broken in 2 pieces, I guess the material was fatigued after countless thousands of pulses.
I called Scan Marine about having a new pump shipped and thats when I found out the pump is not meant to be disassembled (nothing ventured ,nothing gained)and that a new pump would require the unit be returned to the factory to be recalibrated to the new pump.
Chris @ Scan said it would be at least 2 weeks for them to get to it and then with the shipping time to & from the west coast, we wouldn't have it back in time for our trip. I then went into the panic mode ,since we're now addicted to a diesel heater in cool weather & especially happy with the ducting arrangement done by Scott, the previous owner, as he mentioned above. I took a gamble and ordered ,from Amazon,a pulse-type pump that is used on an Eberspacher heater. Again, nothing ventured ,nothing gained. I installed the Chinese pump and crossed my fingers. It primed and tried to ignite ,but then I suppose it overfueled because it started white smoking and then shut down. Oh well, I'm pulling it off this weekend & I'll get it packed up and shipped to Scan Marine this winter.
I'm hoping our trip down will be with mild temperatures and we'll have to make due with the engine-fired bus heater (thanks Scott) and a Mr Buddy propane heater. Don't feel sorry for us; we do have an 8kW generator and over 30,000 btu's of reverse-cycle heating in 3 units (thanks again Scott) if needed, but I would just assume not run the generator. It's just me, but while anchored, the less noise the better.
 
My fresh air vents are sealed during the winter. Packed with insulation and a clear panel to stop convection - drafts. I do not plan on driving the boat and if I need to, I would open a floor hatch. Locate the vent where it works, being mindful of CO, hanging fenders etc.....
 
Shawn...had that fuel pump apart a few times to get it unstuck....not all the way, but somewhat and seemed to get it unstuck.

It was also a replacement pump with no calibration weeks after I bought the heater and Scan Marine couldn't figure out my problem getting it to run and said try a new pump...worked fine as you saw for years...just no guarantees from Scan Marine.
 
Shawn,
With Scan Marines help, I pretty quickly determined I had a defective fuel pump and after having my hands in the guts of the heater to do the diagnostic tests was rather disappointed to find out I couldn't simply replace the pump myself.

I ended up being without my heater for about 5 weeks this fall-- 1 week shipping out to WA, 3 weeks in the queue and the repair, and one week return to the east coast. Between the mid 30's nights and the amount of idle time while waiting, I quickly became motivated to look around for alternatives.
When I installed my Wallas heater, I bought some Webasto ducting parts and found the best price and delivery time for those from Europe. I was astounded at the low shipping price and quick delivery available from England.
So in my search for alternatives, I noticed the UK Wallas distributor, Kuranda, actually listed Wallas fuel pumps and controller boards for sale on their website. I contacted them to see why they offered them for sale since the US distributor wouldn't.
It took several emails back and forth to confirm that yes, the units do need to be matched and mated but that "many" of the fuel pumps are manufactured close enough to each other so will work "well enough" to be temporarily interchangeable with a previously calibrated controller board, in a pinch, "for a while", until it can be calibrated. They essentially are willing to sell you a Wallas fuel pump on a best effort basis with the understanding that there is a chance it may not be able to run your heater until it is officially calibrated, which should probably eventually be done in any case albeit at a more convenient time.
It's just a crap shoot based on how well your old pump performance matches a random new pump. Hopefully both the old and new pumps came from somewhere in the middle of the pack and are close enough to be compatible enough. The Scan Marine tech I talked with about my heater problem did mention that some of the older Wallas units have wildly different fuel flows than the current models and so this strategy probably wouldn't work if your heater was very old.
Worse case you are out a week or two and still don't have heat but now just need to have your unit calibrated. Best case, you have a "good" (75-80%?) chance you will be warm again and can have your heater calibrated at your leisure when you no longer need the heat.

Kuranda also offered to clone my existing settings into a new controller board to carry as a spare and seemed to imply that a units' calibration numbers are kept on file at the corporate Wallas mother ship and could be downloaded by them onto a new board before being shipped out. I mentioned in several emails that I was located in the US but they may not have fully appreciated that detail so I can't tell if they can really access US based heater calibration files or not.
They did not recommend carrying a fuel pump as a spare saying they are "burned in" at the factory for several hours and the now "wet" pumps wouldn't age well simply sitting in a locker for several years before being put into service.

The UK component prices seem to be cheap enough to be at parity with the US prices even after paying for shipping across the Atlantic. I'm on the verge of buying a spare controller board to see if this is a valid alternative. It could come in handy some day.
I love the phone support I've received from Scan Marine, their techs seem very sharp and helpful and my heater was returned in fully working order but the two week round trip shipping time on top of the long queue time was a killer. I'm just now getting the feeling back in my fingers, lol. I would have been more than happy to buy a fuel pump on a best effort basis from them had they offered it but got a hard "no" when I asked.
 
interesting why the UK company is so flexible and tech transparent, while the US headquarter is so difficult to work with.

Shawn,
With Scan Marines help, I pretty quickly determined I had a defective fuel pump and after having my hands in the guts of the heater to do the diagnostic tests was rather disappointed to find out I couldn't simply replace the pump myself.

I ended up being without my heater for about 5 weeks this fall-- 1 week shipping out to WA, 3 weeks in the queue and the repair, and one week return to the east coast. Between the mid 30's nights and the amount of idle time while waiting, I quickly became motivated to look around for alternatives.
When I installed my Wallas heater, I bought some Webasto ducting parts and found the best price and delivery time for those from Europe. I was astounded at the low shipping price and quick delivery available from England.
So in my search for alternatives, I noticed the UK Wallas distributor, Kuranda, actually listed Wallas fuel pumps and controller boards for sale on their website. I contacted them to see why they offered them for sale since the US distributor wouldn't.
It took several emails back and forth to confirm that yes, the units do need to be matched and mated but that "many" of the fuel pumps are manufactured close enough to each other so will work "well enough" to be temporarily interchangeable with a previously calibrated controller board, in a pinch, "for a while", until it can be calibrated. They essentially are willing to sell you a Wallas fuel pump on a best effort basis with the understanding that there is a chance it may not be able to run your heater until it is officially calibrated, which should probably eventually be done in any case albeit at a more convenient time.
It's just a crap shoot based on how well your old pump performance matches a random new pump. Hopefully both the old and new pumps came from somewhere in the middle of the pack and are close enough to be compatible enough. The Scan Marine tech I talked with about my heater problem did mention that some of the older Wallas units have wildly different fuel flows than the current models and so this strategy probably wouldn't work if your heater was very old.
Worse case you are out a week or two and still don't have heat but now just need to have your unit calibrated. Best case, you have a "good" (75-80%?) chance you will be warm again and can have your heater calibrated at your leisure when you no longer need the heat.

Kuranda also offered to clone my existing settings into a new controller board to carry as a spare and seemed to imply that a units' calibration numbers are kept on file at the corporate Wallas mother ship and could be downloaded by them onto a new board before being shipped out. I mentioned in several emails that I was located in the US but they may not have fully appreciated that detail so I can't tell if they can really access US based heater calibration files or not.
They did not recommend carrying a fuel pump as a spare saying they are "burned in" at the factory for several hours and the now "wet" pumps wouldn't age well simply sitting in a locker for several years before being put into service.

The UK component prices seem to be cheap enough to be at parity with the US prices even after paying for shipping across the Atlantic. I'm on the verge of buying a spare controller board to see if this is a valid alternative. It could come in handy some day.
I love the phone support I've received from Scan Marine, their techs seem very sharp and helpful and my heater was returned in fully working order but the two week round trip shipping time on top of the long queue time was a killer. I'm just now getting the feeling back in my fingers, lol. I would have been more than happy to buy a fuel pump on a best effort basis from them had they offered it but got a hard "no" when I asked.
 
I’ve not had good luck with Wallas heaters on two different boats, I won’t buy another one, but Scan Marine is great.
 
Thanks guys for your input.
I called Wallas for some questions and was told it may not be adequate for a 40' boat. They recommended to install a hydronic heating system.

I watched some videos but not sure if it's the one that was talked about over the phone. Is it still a diesel heater? Anyone who has installed a hydronic system could you post some photos, any idea how expensive the parts and installation are?

Not sure who you talked to at "Wallas", but the DT40 and (newer, larger replacement model) are certainly good enough for a 40' boat.

The DT40 kept our boat warm on the coldest days in Wrangell, AK, with periods of days near 0F and weeks below 15F.

It was only during the coldest times, that I had to run the Wallas at full power. 70% of the time, in winter, it ran near idle, with 20% a medium and less than 10% a high.

It was quiet and consumed little diesel and it's electric draw was also minimal.

All in all, a great system, if you value a really quiet, efficient (with fuel and elec) system. :dance:
 
I can understand the manufacturing tolerance issue involved but it seems Wallas is being lazy in addressing it. Fuel injectors on many engines require "mating" of sorts and even some car batteries these days need a mating procedure.

I could see a dip switch or jumper setting on the controller board being used to manually set a "bin code" for the factory tested fuel pumps. 1-2 oz per minute pumps are binned and labeled as "01" units at the factory, 2-3 oz per minute are binned and labeled as "02" units, and so on.
You read the bin sticker on the side of the new fuel pump and click your dip switch or set your jumper setting on your board to match the label and it does the rest. Easy peasy and eliminates the shipping for the DIY'er and reduces bench labor and increases thruput for the service shop. Everybody wins.
I figure the heaters are more popular in Europe than the US so maybe the distributors have the volume and demand to stretch the corporate rules a little bit. Running an uncalibrated heater may violate emissions standards or something although you would think the Europeans would be more sensitive about that type of thing.

I just wish Scan Marine would set up some guy on the east coast for service support, at least during peak season, maybe mid-Atlantic somewhere to be geographically central to ICW traffic. And hire some high school chemistry kids to help with the beakers and stopwatch tests.
 
I appreciate all of the knowledge regarding Wallas & Scan Marine I've gotten from this thread.
I would've loved to had been offered the option of them selling me a pump in hopes of getting lucky and the heater would run in some kind of fashion to get us down the ICW with auxiliary heat and then ship it to them for fine tuning when we had time but in the end, the fault lies with me. I should've tested everything earlier and allowed adequate time for repairs but I was kind of occupied with replacing the propeller shaft & cutlass bearing while the boat was on the hard, in addition to seacock maintenance, so the heater wasn't on my mind. Especially since it was working fine when we last used it in the early spring.
Oh well. I've learned a lot about Wallas maintenance and we'll appreciate the heater even more when it gets back to us.
 
I have a 50’ boat and installed a Wallas. I only wanted to heat the salon which it does adequately. I do have also a 3 unit reverse cycle heat and air but it requires running the genny. At anchor I just want the salon heated without running the genny. I went with the Wallas because of the smaller duct size made for easier install running the ducting.
So my advice is not to necessarily size by boat length. Think what you want to heat
 
I have a 50’ boat and installed a Wallas. I only wanted to heat the salon which it does adequately. I do have also a 3 unit reverse cycle heat and air but it requires running the genny. At anchor I just want the salon heated without running the genny. I went with the Wallas because of the smaller duct size made for easier install running the ducting.
So my advice is not to necessarily size by boat length. Think what you want to heat

If the heater is installed in the cabin or bilge, how do you arrange the air ducts to the aft cabin and the bow area? Does the passage hide behind the wood panels so you have to open them to lay the ducts?
 
I was able to run duct work in hidden areas. Every boat is different. I was able to locate the heater in a lazerette just aft of the salon and so duct work was partial under duct and then up in to the salon where I had three outlets and one return
 
Paul: As you can see there are lot of options. Insulating the exhaust pipe is an easyish task. My tube-in-tube exhaust hose touches fiberglass and wood with NO issues. Where the hose touched the boat I have wrapped high temp cloth to act as a heat shield. Fuel can be extracted thru a manifold without any more tank penetrations. I have 2 manifolds on my boat. All of the feeds have ball shut off valves so no starvation can take place. If you winterize your main engine, close the fuel valve.

@TJM Could you snap photos to show how the manifolds work to supply fuel?
 
Yes, I can take some pictures and text them to you.
One manifold is connected to a Reverso OP-7 diesel fuel pump which primes the fuel lines / filters upon a filter change. The best improvement I made so far. I can change out a fuel starved line and filter within minutes. I can also transfer fuel from port to starboard tanks and visa versa if needed.
The second manifold if connected to my oil changing system. Both engines and genny are connected to this. Makes oil changes quick and clean.
 
Thanks Tom. I received it. I will have more questions when I get time to work on this.

Yes, I can take some pictures and text them to you.
One manifold is connected to a Reverso OP-7 diesel fuel pump which primes the fuel lines / filters upon a filter change. The best improvement I made so far. I can change out a fuel starved line and filter within minutes. I can also transfer fuel from port to starboard tanks and visa versa if needed.
The second manifold if connected to my oil changing system. Both engines and genny are connected to this. Makes oil changes quick and clean.
 
@marco flamingo , when you run the 8 ft duct through the bilge, how did you seal the bilge odor inside?


My boat had a Wallas diesel heater. When that needed parts that were no longer available, I went with a $150 Chinese diesel heater (3 years ago). Some of the old ducting I used, some I improved. The Wallas had a fresh air intake to the outside. I eliminated that and now simply take air from my well ventilated engine room.

I added both a muffler and an intake silencer. The original install made for a whining noise outside the hull. More irritating to a neighbor than to me, less irritating than a generator, but still something easy to eliminate. I fabricated a muffler (as the common diesel heater mufflers are not suitable for interior spaces) similar to a "glass pack" muffler out of common copper pipe (shown in this thread at post 37). Wallas makes an exhaust muffler out of $tainless $teel for about $300. My silencer on the air intake is one from Ebay. Recommended as the intake whines almost as much as the exhaust. Both are now silent.

The little heater fuel pump is a tick type and could be heard when at anchor. I suspended the pump from the rubber fuel lines and wrapped the pump in pipe insulation (the brown "smurf tube" commonly sold at hardware stores). It now can't be heard in the cabin.

The air duct is not a common size and one is generally forced to buy small lengths. The air is quite hot (it melted one of my crocs on the cabin floor, also shown in the above thread at post 53). I would use the special heat-tolerant aluminized duct when near the heater. However, that duct is usually kind of an accordion pleat and therefore not that efficient for longer runs. Turns out that long runs and lots of elbows are what kills these little heaters as they can't "breathe" and coke up. That said, I needed to run one "Y" over 8 feet through the cold bilge to get to the V berth. I used 3" pipe insulation as the duct (the brown stuff, again) to keep the air warm. Worked fine and can apparently take more heat than a pair of crocs.
 
I've only read about "bilge odor" here on TF. If I ever had that, I'd first fix the black water tank or whatever was causing the odor. Maybe a "dry bilge" is so dry that it doesn't get the exchange of water that keeps the odor away? Maybe some boat in stinky water?

I sealed my ductwork where it passed through bulkheads or in/out of conditioned space in a couple of ways. The ductwork for the original Wallas heater was apparently installed by a blind one-armed man with a Sawzall. Oversized randomly shaped holes that showed several attempts had been made. Since the primary holes were a couple ducts coming out of the engine room, they also allowed engine noise in to the cabin and the head.

When re-doing, I cut a large patch of mass loaded vinyl with a hole just the size of the duct. That allowed me to thread the duct through the patch and then attach the patch to the bulkhead. Cut down on sound and air infiltration at the same time. I then used canned foam glue to really seal things in place. I think this might also mask a stinking bilge.

For the semi-split foam pipe insulation that I used for ducting, I used a hole saw sized 1/8" less than the foam insulation O.D. That allowed me to jam the duct through the hole and it self sealed.
 
Thanks, one dumb question

How do you attach the vinyl patch to the bulkhead?

Btw, the bilge does not stink, but does not smell the same as the cabin. When underway, there is diesel smell.


I've only read about "bilge odor" here on TF. If I ever had that, I'd first fix the black water tank or whatever was causing the odor. Maybe a "dry bilge" is so dry that it doesn't get the exchange of water that keeps the odor away? Maybe some boat in stinky water?

I sealed my ductwork where it passed through bulkheads or in/out of conditioned space in a couple of ways. The ductwork for the original Wallas heater was apparently installed by a blind one-armed man with a Sawzall. Oversized randomly shaped holes that showed several attempts had been made. Since the primary holes were a couple ducts coming out of the engine room, they also allowed engine noise in to the cabin and the head.

When re-doing, I cut a large patch of mass loaded vinyl with a hole just the size of the duct. That allowed me to thread the duct through the patch and then attach the patch to the bulkhead. Cut down on sound and air infiltration at the same time. I then used canned foam glue to really seal things in place. I think this might also mask a stinking bilge.

For the semi-split foam pipe insulation that I used for ducting, I used a hole saw sized 1/8" less than the foam insulation O.D. That allowed me to jam the duct through the hole and it self sealed.
 
fuel tank vent may be good source for fuel supply with the available T fitting. But it might not be doable if the vent location cannot be pinpointed

It's not visible from the engine room. Both tanks are outboard against the hull, sealed behind insulation panels

Here is viewing from inside salon towards portside and sundeck entry


IMG20231207190242.jpg

Look into the closet on the wall

IMG20231203182600.jpg


Any hint how to detect the vents?

+1 for mounting a heater in the cabin. As you can see from our boat picture, we don't have an engine space so don't have that option anyway. The typical mounting location in our model of boat is the space between the helm seat bench and the hull. Our heater is the size of a large kids lunchbox, other brands are the size of a loaf of bread so should be easy to find a place.

The long axis of our heater is oriented fore/aft which puts the incoming fresh air duct from our cockpit and the outgoing heated air duct naturally parallel to the hull for easier routing around our boat. Our combustion air pipe rises from the heater, does an inverted "U" bend and dives down to our thru hull fitting aft of the heater.


From the online videos I've seen, I'd be a little leery about mounting the ultra low cost diesel heaters in a cabin due to the sound they make but would consider putting one in an empty lazarette locker somewhere outside.

I like the suggestion of installing a couple of heaters to get the heat output you need and provide some redundancy. I didn't think about the fuel consumption for a bigger boat, but if you need anything like Steve Mitchell's estimate of 40k BTU, keeping two big diesel heaters fed with diesel fuel from a day tank would be a task. I think each would come close to draining such a tank each day in cold weather-- truly making them "day tanks". (Google says 1 gallon of diesel has 137,000 BTU of energy so running heaters at max output to come near that 40k BTU would consume 1 gallon of fuel about every three hours, maybe more when inefficiencies are considered.)


Any chance you have vertical access above your fuel tank vent fitting? I see that heater fuel pickup tubes are available that can fit through a special combination tank vent/heater fuel pickup "T" fitting that screws into the standard vent fitting on a diesel tank. But while that eliminates the need to drill your tank for a separate fuel pickup fitting, you still need the clearance above the vent fitting to drop the long straight fuel pickup tube down into the tank and a little space to hook up the hoses.


If you don't have good vent access in your engine room, I'd imagine your tanks are outboard against your hull so maybe you would be lucky enough to have the vent fitting on your tanks located underneath some cabinet or bench where you could (very carefully!) drill an access port in the cabin floor to access that vent fitting by reaching down through the cabin floor.
 
fuel tank vent may be good source for fuel supply with the available T fitting. But it might not be doable if the vent location cannot be pinpointed
Paul, are you seriously asking to 'T' into an air vent of the fuel tank to draw fuel from the tank.
 
I don't know. Haven't seen where the vent is.

Alternatively, I saw two potential positions for fuel supply. Install a split fitting at a) and a small racor, then lead through the floor into the starboard side closet. Or split from b), this is post gen racor (10mi). Would either work?

IMG_20231207_234422.jpg


Paul, are you seriously asking to 'T' into an air vent of the fuel tank to draw fuel from the tank.
 
I think Wallas shows an example of how to slip the tiny heater fuel supply line through the fuel tank vent line down into the tank. That way you are not fighting the engine/genset and the hole does nut have to be as leak free as other methods.

I had considered doing it on my boat as it was the most practical way to get fuel from the main tank. I went with a 2.5 gallon jug as a temporary solution (pain in the A** due to refilling when in really cold weather)...never got around to a permanent solution.
 
Heater ducting

Anyone have experience combing a Espar diesel heater ducting with the engine bus heater ducting?

I have both systems - the hot air ducting is seperate right now but i was thinking about combining them?

Would it be best to install a “valve” to direct air flow from each of the systems?
 
Anyone have experience combing a Espar diesel heater ducting with the engine bus heater ducting?

I have both systems - the hot air ducting is seperate right now but i was thinking about combining them?

Would it be best to install a “valve” to direct air flow from each of the systems?

I would be reluctant to combine. The fan on the bus heater is much more powerful. Were the two ever turned on at the same time, the bus heater would stop the fan in the little diesel heater, causing serious problems.
 
Maybe you mean to reengineer the ducts to simplify the two duct systems into one? It would be difficult from my view. Here is a photo of the reverse cycle unit in the aft cabin. Maybe you could swap the Y to an X or plug in another Y?
IMG20240107105535.jpg


Anyone have experience combing a Espar diesel heater ducting with the engine bus heater ducting?

I have both systems - the hot air ducting is seperate right now but i was thinking about combining them?

Would it be best to install a “valve” to direct air flow from each of the systems?
 
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