Chinese diesel heater

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WARNING
If that is the muffler supplied with the heater it is not sealed around the edges and will leak co into your boat
 
I had an espar and was happy with it. It stopped working with age.
So off to Espar to buy another one and find the price not appealing so I search around and found Planar. They were near 1/2 of Espar with the same apparent quality. Planar had a warning on the website, beware of copycat product with our name on it. That were actually selling those chinese knock offs on ebay as Planar.
We all want the best for the least $.
I was willing to get a similar product priced at 1/2 of original Espar because E was overpricing as far as I was concerned. They have been around long enough to have paid for R&D and trim production costs so I saw it as a cash grab price.
But the chinese knockoff was ignored for what it was, a copy of a proven product, no overhead to develop.
At the same time I was looking for a propane OB and Lehr looked good. But Lehr went to china to cut costs and china produced Lehr was defective and Lehr went down.
So I was in no mood to buy another chinese produced product due to quality concerns.
Should the Planar fail prematurely I will buy 2 knockoffs.
 
I've fitted a couple, a 5KW one on my Birchwood 33 for 170 Euro's inc delivery from China to France. It worked perfectly and as was mentioned mount the fuel pump on a rubber.
When you buy them be sure to check you have an exhaust and air intake silencer in the kit. I sold that boat and according to the new owner its still working fine after 3 years.
On our current 42' flybridge 'Snowmouse' I fitted the 8KW, and again it's working perfectly.
A couple of points when installing, insulate all the pipe runs as it makes a very big difference in delivered heat in the cabin(the Webasto clip together insulating sleeves for all the pipework cost as much as the heater but worth every cent) make sure you buy it with both an exhaust and an intake silencer (I insulated the metal exhaust pipe to the skin fitting with fireproof tape), the control panel is hard to see in daylight but I can live with that, make sure you get one that can blow cold air only, if you're moored up in hot weather the air in your bilges is cooled by the water and it helps in cooling the boat. The site I bought mine from was Wish.com.
There are some kits without silencers so check thoroughly what's included. Time spent on reconnaissance is never wasted.
I try and avoid buying Chinese goods but compared to the price of an Eberspacher or a Webasto the old Irish 'short arms and deep pockets' wins out.
 
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Soo-Valley said:
I had an espar and was happy with it. It stopped working with age.
So off to Espar to buy another one and find the price not appealing so I search around and found Planar. They were near 1/2 of Espar with the same apparent quality. Planar had a warning on the website, beware of copycat product with our name on it. That were actually selling those chinese knock offs on ebay as Planar.
We all want the best for the least $.
I was willing to get a similar product priced at 1/2 of original Espar because E was overpricing as far as I was concerned. They have been around long enough to have paid for R&D and trim production costs so I saw it as a cash grab price.
But the chinese knockoff was ignored for what it was, a copy of a proven product, no overhead to develop.
At the same time I was looking for a propane OB and Lehr looked good. But Lehr went to china to cut costs and china produced Lehr was defective and Lehr went down.
So I was in no mood to buy another chinese produced product due to quality concerns.
Should the Planar fail prematurely I will buy 2 knockoffs.
Click to expand...
The audacity of the Chinese making a knockoff of a Russian knockoff of a German product.


Just like the Chang Jiang, Dnepr, and BMW motorcycles I suppose.
 
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"The real problem is the technology was stolen from a company who invested in developing a product, someone else stole that R&D and threw out a discount product with no investment in development."

Perhaps true with new ideas , but the fuel fired heater was old news in WWII .

The repurposed diesel truck heaters used in boats is like most things sold for boats , huge markups which do not add value.
 
The best solution I have found for quieting the system is to fabricate your own muffler. I made what is essentially a "Cherry Bomb" type of glass pack muffler for my Espar D2. I made a slightly larger one for my Chinese $100 heater, probably 5x longer than the stainless one that came with it. The inner pipe has tiny holes inside of the larger fiberglass stuffed pipe. All is soldered air tight so that there is no concern for exhaust leaking. 3/4" copper pipe was perfect to accept the flexible stainless exhaust tubing. The larger pipe is 1.5" with two end caps. All, including the muffler, is then wrapped in fiberglass exhaust casing (which cost about as much as the heater and muffler).

Because of the larger muffler on my Chinese heater, it cannot be heard from the boat in the next slip. Silent. All of the copper plumbing pipe was from my scrap pile, so it was essentially free. The fiberglass stuffing was a bit I scavenged from my attic. Even if I had purchased the materials, it would still be cheaper than the $250 similar muffler from the German manufacturers.

I purchased a Chinese diesel heater for moral reasons, even though I can afford the German price gouging. A new glow plug for my old Webasto was $150. It was the same made-in-China part that was included free with my $100 Chinese heater. Again, I could afford the price gouging and pretending to purchase "German technology." But I could not buy it for moral reasons.
 

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AKDoug said:
The real problem is the technology was stolen from a company who invested in developing a product, someone else stole that R&D and threw out a discount product with no investment in development.

The original developer provided good jobs for its personnel, both in R&D and production, the knock off company "not so much". It makes it pretty hard for the original developer to support their product when their market share declines due to the discounted knock off, and their ability to spread their R&D investment out over a longer period of time with product sales is damaged.

We as buyers of theses pirated technologies are a part of the problem.

Just sayin...
Click to expand...

While I whole heartedly agree with your thoughts on the subject, the fact is these heaters flooded the market in the last year because the patent expired. This is a basic economic cycle where the inventor had a monopoly for over a decade. They were able to recoup their initial investment over that period. Now the free market takes over and prices regulate due to competition!
 
For all this awesome R&D, maybe we'd see something that belongs in 2020+ like maybe app/remote control. I see they have it, but have ~2 star or less reviews on the app store. So their R&D is failing miserably.
 
On a previous thread I think someone said the originals,not the Chinese knockoffs, had the air intake tube surrounding another tube within it which carried the exhaust going out. Thus protecting from heat where the exhaust passes out of the boat. Seemed ingenious design to me.
 
I’m after quiet operation and reliability as the priorities.

Price takes a backseat to these.

Because of this I have been 100% happy with my Produced in Finland furnaces that were actually designed to heat a boats cabin.

Yes my Wallas furnaces cost a bit more, but their reliability is proven with my last unit reaching 27,000 hours of operation before needing a major rebuild.

That and I really like that the American dealer for these knows me by name when I call. They can check on my furnaces remotely as well, as can I.

great product, Great service, reasonable price.

www.scanmarineusa.com
 
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Many RV heaters do the same, see here the hole on the end is exhaust, and it pulls in fresh air from around the sides of the square that is hanging out.
 
Thanks y’all for the info here, a buddy purchased one for his Hatteras and I’ve been waiting on him to install to see if he likes it, so your feedback is greatly appreciated. I’m thinking of installing 1 or maybe 2 in my GB42. 1 for V birth and 1 aft cabin. For years we’ve been using electric radiators which work great, however, when you live aboard amps are precious as we only have 125V/50A hence the diesel heater(s).
 
Being I already have a propane stove/oven, when it came to cabin heat I went with a Propex propane 10k btu cabin heater ducted into the V berth and cabin. In 8 years of use it has worked perfectly and in hindsight could have gone with their smaller 6500 btu unit. One 11 pound bottle lasts me from May to October. Very efficient and very quiet. Bought mine here: https://www.suremarineservice.com/Heat/Propex-Propane-Forced-Air-Heaters/
 
Bill V said:
Being I already have a propane stove/oven, when it came to cabin heat I went with a Propex propane 10k btu cabin heater ducted into the V berth and cabin. In 8 years of use it has worked perfectly and in hindsight could have gone with their smaller 6500 btu unit. One 11 pound bottle lasts me from May to October. Very efficient and very quiet. Bought mine here: https://www.suremarineservice.com/Heat/Propex-Propane-Forced-Air-Heaters/
Click to expand...

What kind of outdoor temperature range do you see?
 
Cigatoo said:
What kind of outdoor temperature range do you see?
Click to expand...

Generally speaking temperatures range from 38-45 night time lows although a couple years ago i kept the boat in the water all winter to try our winter black mouth fishing. That winter temps were as low as 30 and I stayed the night to test the furnace and was pleasantly surprised at how well it kept the cabin warm. One quality i really like is how quiet it is when running.
 
Bill V said:
Being I already have a propane stove/oven, when it came to cabin heat I went with a Propex propane 10k btu cabin heater ducted into the V berth and cabin. In 8 years of use it has worked perfectly and in hindsight could have gone with their smaller 6500 btu unit. One 11 pound bottle lasts me from May to October. Very efficient and very quiet. Bought mine here: https://www.suremarineservice.com/Heat/Propex-Propane-Forced-Air-Heaters/
Click to expand...
Interesting. When I was putting heat in my previous boat Sure recommended against propane due the amount of fuel it would use. My other data point is a sprinter camper van with propane heat. It's nice, easy to maintain, reliable but goes through a LOT of propane.
 
Looking at their 10K btu specifications it looks like you would get about 45 hours to a standard BBQ tank. i.e. 10 hours per gallon.
 
Yes that’s true BUT that is running continuously. In my case the thermostat is set for about 70 and in mid 30’s outdoor temps it runs about 5-10 minutes an hour at most. I use 2.6 gallon tanks and refill once a year. Granted not used much from June to August but in May, September and October is used very frequently.
 
When I gutted the cabin I used spray foam insulation on all the walls and bulkheads to below waterline. Remember I am not heating a boat that is the size of most on this forum. I dare say I am probably the smallest boat here and cabin space is a lot less then yours. Ceiling has 2” thick insulation as well. Bathroom is not heated unless I open the door. Many of the master staterooms on the trawlers on this forum are bigger then the interior of my boat. I wouldn’t dream of living on her either but as a “long range sport fishing boat” the wife and I are very comfortable on her. We love slow cruising but at times like to cruise at 30+ to get there quickly.
 
Originally Posted by crashley:
WARNING
If that is the muffler supplied with the heater it is not sealed around the edges and will leak co into your boat

boathealer said:
Yep, Espar replacement on the way.....
Click to expand...

I have updated my original project documentation/project web page with these warnings and additional information.

Apologies......
 
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We spent Christmas Eve on the boat and the temp dropped to about 25F. My heater was listed as an 8Kw, but since they look identical to those sold as 5Kw, I took that rating with a grain of salt. We didn't leave the heater on idle over night and actually cracked opened the back door and the V berth hatch, neither of which could allow rain (or snow) in. In the morning, I turned on the heater (I can do that from the bed) and waited for things to heat up.

The heater ran for about 45 minutes at full bore before kicking down to idle. This is on a 30 pocket trawler with registers in the head, V berth, and main cabin. It would probably be okay for trawlers under 40' in freezing weather, but that would be the limit and some areas might have to have the registers closed.

I had gotten up when things were sort of warm and closed the hatch and door. We leave them open to reduce condensation when sleeping. Even though there was ice on the railings and sampson post, things got toasty warm inside. But . . .

I tried to put on my Crocs the last time I went down to the boat. I could only find one of mine and one of Beth's. Then Beth said that it wasn't her Croc. What the ??? Turns out that one of my Crocs must have been right next to the main cabin heat register when the heater ran so long at full blast. It "shrunk" a Croc. No damage or discoloration to the floor, no problem with the heat register or ducting. But it turns out that Crocs can't take the heat.
 

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That's pretty impressive. If you put your hand in front of the discharge is it uncomfortably hot? Are your ducts insulated? I have the 8 kw model in my sailboat with about 20 feet of uninsulated ducting. The air is hot, but not burning hot. I can put my hand in the stream and hold it there, uncomfortable but no damage. It does warm up the boat pretty quickly though. Or maybe this is really about the Crocs not tolerating heat. I don't own any so can't verify that.
 
I agree with Bill V when he speaks of insulating the boat with expanded polyurethane foam.
We live in the South of France and being used to the heat 10 months of the year so we feel the chill quickly.
I fitted a Chinese 5 KW heater and insulated any exposed heater pipes (the Eberspacher clip on insulation cost more than the Chinese heater) but it was a pony doing a horses job so I took it off, sold it for twice the price I bought it for.
I then fitted the 10 Kw version to our 42' fly cruiser, as I write this at 10:30 pm the temps outside are minus 1 Celsius a 50 mph wind increased the wind chill factor to minus 4.
My lovely French wife is stripped down to just a bra & pants, I'm in my whips and the double electric under blanket is switched on.
The good lady will have an Irish whiskey and I'll chance a brandy (or two) before bed.
Goddam it darn cosy::thumb:
 
boathealer said:
Yep, Espar replacement on the way.....
Click to expand...

Or just don't use a muffler. My 8kw Chinese heater came with that same muffler, and in the instructions it said it was to be mounted outside the vehicle. (It's a truck/bus heater, right?). Anyway I bought the Planar double wall through hull which cost half as much as the heater and mounted it with no muffler. Actually tested it first in my garage and found the muffler didn't make much difference, so I pitched it. Units mounted back in the lazarette with 3" mylar hose ducts into the cabin. From inside I can hear the fan and burner running, but no louder than the furnace in my house. I can hear the pump ticking only if I really listen for it. As a disclaimer I used to play drums and shoot handguns, often without hearing protection, so my ears are not the best. From back at the transom where the outlet is, it's pretty loud sounding like a little jet engine, which it kind of is. Probably can't hear from 20 or 30 feet away though. Overall I'm very happy with it except for the display backlight failure. I've read that's common with them.
 
ksanders said:
I’m after quiet operation and reliability as the priorities.

Price takes a backseat to these.

Because of this I have been 100% happy with my Produced in Finland furnaces that were actually designed to heat a boats cabin.

Yes my Wallas furnaces cost a bit more, but their reliability is proven with my last unit reaching 27,000 hours of operation before needing a major rebuild.

That and I really like that the American dealer for these knows me by name when I call. They can check on my furnaces remotely as well, as can I.

great product, Great service, reasonable price.

www.scanmarineusa.com
Click to expand...

Whole heartedly AGREE!

Scan Marine provides a wealth of knowledge!

The Wallas is an excellent boat heater with NO jet engine noise. Pretty much silent from outside.

Modern day conveniences like Bluetooth and Wifi control. And sips fuel even at full blast.

I just installed 2 Spartan Units in our boat this past week and am extremely impressed with their performance! Boat is on the hard, and its been in the 20's and the boat is a nice 72 degrees, and the units are running at 19% of capacity
 
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One other thing has anyone tried using the higher end pieces from the exhaust set up from a Wallace to trim out a china heater?
 
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AKDoug said:
The real problem is the technology was stolen from a company who invested in developing a product, someone else stole that R&D and threw out a discount product with no investment in development.

The original developer provided good jobs for its personnel, both in R&D and production, the knock off company "not so much". It makes it pretty hard for the original developer to support their product when their market share declines due to the discounted knock off, and their ability to spread their R&D investment out over a longer period of time with product sales is damaged.

We as buyers of theses pirated technologies are a part of the problem.

Just sayin...
Click to expand...

This is why I went with an Espar for our Sprinter van. The Chinese one is such a blatant ripoff - it looks identical.
 
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