Strongest boat

[JWellington]

Uh huh.

The Bay class boats are just being launched with an average price of $7.5 million CAD each.

The Tahsis boat just showed up last year. It's pretty sweet.

You seem to know about these boats, any more info you have would be appreciated. They don't give much info on any of the three sites involved, Robert Allen designers, or the two builders.
Average price....seems to indicate that even the coast guard must have several configurations. I supposed some have specialized equipment.

 

[fgarriso]

4" thick hand layered hull
Round bottom trawler hull

58 Hatteras LRC

 

[psneeld]

Just need increased range. To 2000miles. And that can be done.

Those boars are NOT equipped for anything resembling long term living aboard or distant cruising.

Have fun in your dreamworld...but I have been aboard many SAR boats and cruising in one would be like RVing in a factory fresh work van.

Yes..... you will be spending A LOT more than just extending range.

 

[JWellington]

Those boars are NOT equipped for anything resembling long term living aboard or distant cruising.

Have fun in your dreamworld...but I have been aboard many SAR boats and cruising in one would be like RVing in a factory fresh work van.

Yes..... you will be spending A LOT more than just extending range.

Long term living requires what?......bunks, galley , head, shower, washing machine, hot water, watermater. What else again?

 

[twistedtree]

Long term living requires what?......bunks, galley , head, shower, washing machine, hot water, watermater. What else again?

Are you going to build one, or something similar? Or is this mental masturbation?

 

[JWellington]

Are you going to build one, or something similar? Or is this mental masturbation?

Speaking of boats, what all does yours have for livaboard? Above, three different boats were cited.

 

[psneeld]

Long term living requires what?......bunks, galley , head, shower, washing machine, hot water, watermater. What else again?

Lets see if you find all those things for a true liveaboard and not just the "basics" of some of those items on SAR vessels.

Good luck....remember these are response vessels, not patrol vessels.

 

[Solly]

I would argue the most seaworthy boat is one where the skipper knows enough to not need the capabilities...
This is strictly for us fair weather boaters like me....We go out for fun, not to get beat to death.

 

[Benthic2]

The problem is that extreme capability is expensive...very expensive and you will probably only need it 5% of the time, despite paying for it 100% of the time. The USCG and SAR boats don't have the option of staying in port. A recreational boater, especially a retired one does...and should!!! It's a big planet. You could just decide not to cruise in the harshest places at the worst times and you could get a vessel that was less expensive, more comfortable, and larger.

I suspect you would willingly go out in Beafort 12 conditions once, and say to yourself: "I've got a great boat, but that sucked!!...I'm never doing that again!"

 

[slowgoesit]

Yeah, you did miss it.

The point was that you can spend your best years searching for or building "unobtainium" and when you get it are to far gone yourself to use it.

Simi,

Some people just never get beyond being "armchair boaters"! They research, and research, and research, and never end up ever going boating.
Sad really. Our boat isn't perfect, but it's capable of doing much more than we would be comfortable doing, and so for us, it's enough!

 

[twistedtree]

Speaking of boats, what all does yours have for livaboard? Above, three different boats were cited.

I'm not sure what you mean. Accommodations for the people on board?


It's typical of a Nordhavn, which is not unlike many other pleasure trawlers like Grand Banks, Helmsman, Kady Krogen, Saber - just to name a few. Have you been able to get on some of these boats? The fit and finish is excellent, really nice wood work, galley, and heads, full appliances, etc. Smaller boats will have less space, smaller and fewer major appliances, but all well done and nicely presented. In contrast a fishing or work boat will have many unfinished space, isn't going to have nice wood work, will have utilitarian galley, staterooms, and heads, etc. It's kind of like comparing a dormitory to a nice house. Get on as many boats as you can and you will see what I mean.

 

[Northern Spy]

I'm going to stop feeding the troll.

V8Z 3K5 postal code is a Starbucks in a shoddier part of Victoria.

Have you ever been to sea, Billy?

David Ess. Is that you?

 

[Simi 60]

Haha, we will do this before we are 80. And we hear of, and see 80 year olds at sea

Yeah well that does sort of prove my point

We cut the search for unobtainium short and grabbed one that ticked most of our boxes at 50.

 

[BruceK]

Are you going to build one, or something similar? Or is this mental masturbation?

To nail it,omit "mental".

 

[long-cours.62]

Lets see if you find all those things for a true liveaboard and not just the "basics" of some of those items on SAR vessels.

Good luck....remember these are response vessels, not patrol vessels.

On patrol boat :

Big enough kitchen for you ? And you only see the right part.

 

[long-cours.62]

Dinning area



Wheelhouse


Radio area


One of the cabine with this ensuite toilette and shower


Another cabine also wiht ensuite (like all cabin)


ok ok no watermaker on this one but I think enought room in the engine room to fix one

 

[Benthic2]

Any time you would spend responding to this troll should instead be spent looking at his history. I would suggest the threads "Interesting Small Trawlers" or "De-humidifiers"

He knows more than you and will stop at nothing to prove it.

Like others have said: Don't feed the trolls

 

[long-cours.62]

And lot of professional equipment, built like a professional boat not like a pleasure boat

Arrangement are not so bad for a near 40 year old boat ...
the 2 last drawing are from the last who was sold (and the last one I looking at this one during 4 year but my wife said "DON'T DO THAT !!!!"
She was in fiberglass and sold for ...40000€ !


Ah I forgot the photo come from one sold for ...15000€ we was the only one to make an offer

 

[psneeld]

The boat in the first post is a large but still response boat that in my experience does not have accommodations like a patrol boat.

2 different mission profiles so 2 different sets and quality of accommodations.

 

[long-cours.62]

If I find the photo of the arrengement of the German's SAR boat you will see they was not so bad also , the "salon" was not big but you have all ne necessary confort.
I had a look at this SAR boat when they was for sale , but the brokers said the 2 first one was sold to Uruguay or some country in this area. ( not sure the sale go to the end)
And one of the next one had a "leak" on one of diesel tanks, the leak was not a problem , but what said the leak could be one ( big "corrosion/electrolys" in tank and one side of the tank was ...the hull :-(
If I remember one of then had 3 engines what could be interesting to move on one engine at trawler speed ...


this one is a small one but of course one for few our on board is not confortable as one for few day but interresting
https://commercial.apolloduck.com/boat/halmatic-arun-52-for-sale/683047




here you can see a former SAR ship not so bad !


https://www.shipsforsale.se/en/ships-en/shipid/920/rescue-vessels_3_dan-brostrom/

 

[Hippocampus]

There’s quite a number of series production, RTW , transpacific range, light ice class boats with interiors optimized for full time liveaboard. A incomplete list includes XP, Artnautica, Arksen, even Deep Water among others. Suspect JW has never been a long term liveaboard so has little concept of what’s involved. Perhaps PS may want to comment on what’s involved in servicing the type of vessels he’s proposing and the quality of life onboard. This thread is illogical. For the same money and with less operating costs he could be on a series production boat capable of safely doing high lat work comfortably but also be comfortable in the tropics. When he swallows the anchor he would have something with resale value. Think it’s either ignorance, lack of experience, hubris or trolling that results in these threads. But I have my popcorn and it’s a diversion while I wait on board for various techs/wrenches to get my little boat ready to go R.I.-Bahamas.

 

[long-cours.62]

Cheaper ? !

There’s quite a number of series production, RTW , transpacific range, light ice class boats with interiors optimized for full time liveaboard. A incomplete list includes XP, Artnautica, Arksen, even Deep Water among others. Suspect JW has never been a long term liveaboard so has little concept of what’s involved. Perhaps PS may want to comment on what’s involved in servicing the type of vessels he’s proposing and the quality of life onboard. This thread is illogical. For the same money and with less operating costs he could be on a series production boat capable of safely doing high lat work comfortably but also be comfortable in the tropics. When he swallows the anchor he would have something with resale value. Think it’s either ignorance, lack of experience, hubris or trolling that results in these threads. But I have my popcorn and it’s a diversion while I wait on board for various techs/wrenches to get my little boat ready to go R.I.-Bahamas.

I don't think so ...one more example

17.15 m x 4.94x1.30m m, salon, wheelhouse, one double cabin , two single cabin, toilet, shower...Sold for 11000€ could you find cheaper in a production boat ?
I start the auction and stop after few offer : big mistake !! This one could be perfect for us , we don't need more.

fiberglass 1991.
Sure will change the engine 800x2 by a smaller ( for example on the same auction they sold 2 volvo D4 rebuilt as new by volvo) and may be the...color color


If we compare with one of your example :
Arcnautica LRC58 17.6x4x0.95 785000€
https://www.devalk.nl/en/yachtbrokerage/252285/LRC-58.html
The upper one 17.15x4.85x1.30 11000€
no comment

 

[psneeld]

Again, switching those boats from bare bones SAR boats to passenger vessels did not come easy or cheap.

Even offshore fishing vessels tend to be more like cruisers (or patrol boats) than the original version of any SAR "response" vessel.

Buy any commercial/government vessel that has already been converted MAY be a good deal...but someone did the work and money already.

As others mentioned too, you can live in a steel box......if you really want to, but most of us prefer more well "appointed" recreational vessels. Some built to standards that are good enough for world cruising already or could even be improved upon for way less than converting commercial class vessels.

Buying already converted commercial vessels can be a good deal....and many really in the long run are not (at least here in the US).

 

[long-cours.62]

even on merchant ship built in the fifty, when I began as young seamen, it was not a "steel box"
you are right some already converted was nicely converted, but production boat or big patrol boat or SAR are all now too "complicated" for us.


As said above the 17.15m fiberglass was good for us because "basic" as the Arcnautica.lrc58
Concerning the Arcnautica I can't understand where they save all this weight to said on their website : 14t loaded and 15t on De Valk
Our Long-Cours 62 only the aluminium part was 11.5t
If we adjust for his length and beam it means 8.6t we need to cut the thickness by 40% to arrive at 5.2t for the hull but in this case can we still qualifier her as "stronger" boat ?
Even if I like the concept minimalist small weight, small draft, even if the beam look "extreme" at only 4 m.... but the actual price 785000€!! even if they already decrease from 915000€

 

[Hippocampus]

Cost of boat
Purchase price minus recovery at resale. Plus outfitting cost, refitting cost and cost of ownership (maintenance, repairs, servicing, fuel, insurance, fees, storage etc.).
Two examples. I bought a one off built for transatlantic single handed racing. I put about 5000 hours into it to convert to a cruiser. Took me years. If I hired the work out at $70-125/hour probably another $100k-200k + in this current world. I still needed to hire some work out after discussion with my insurer and surveyor. Ended up with a great boat but wife still found it spartan. Took 1 1/2 years to sell. Not counting my sweat equity made a very few bucks. Enjoyed the project but it got old while doing it.
Sold our last boat after 9 years of ownership. Initial cost $525k base $650k out the door fully outfitted. Cost of ownership $40k/year plus insurance (varied greatly depending upon in or out of the hurricane zone) . Cleared $550 end of day upon resale. Took first offer which occurred the first day. Emptied our “stuff” and sold much of that. So the BWB designed for our program costed less overall then the refit. Quality of life was much better on the semicustom. Hear this over and over from other cruisers doing a conversion ends up being more expensive if you add in the cost of your labor or fully hire it out. The result is rarely equivalent to a boat designed and built from scratch to a given purpose not one converted to a new purpose. Resale is always problematic both in terms of timing and degree of recovery of investment.
It is said “some people like to build boats-some like to use them.” At any age your clock is ticking. I could make much more per hour working my primary job than the cost of hours spent on the boat. My partners made me clearly aware of this so hired out a lot more than initially planned. If I hired out the whole job I would have lost considerable money and still have the aggravation of supervising the work while waiting for the finished product.
Would note the A 58 is marketing at ~80% of initial cost after going from NZ to Europe. Probably sell real close to that number. Buy and off you go. They even propose doing any refit required. Divide by either miles travelled or years of ownership not bad at all. You have a very excellent boat. But personally I would prefer the A58 at the modest increase in total cost of ownership I believe would apply. I don’t have the knowledge to run the numbers. Be interesting exercise to do the comparison by miles travelled or years owned. My just prior boat sold above its initial base cost at time of purchase (we got a further discount after allowing it to be used in some boat shows). Between that and the recent hot market possibly atypical and current base cost ~$1OOk higher. Some boats I heard are going out closer to $850k. Hard to make comparisons. Still think in terms of lifestyle, having a boat to use, resale and aggravation much to be said for serial production either stock or semi custom, new or used over repurposing a boat. Repurposing a boat will always be a crapshoot. What will it be worth at resale? How long will it take? Will the final result be as good as a designed from scratch vessel? What will the work cost? For even the few of us that contemplate high lat cruising what JW suggests doesn’t seem logical based on what I know. I admit boating isn’t logical but the real world does put its thumb on the scale eventually.

 

[rslifkin]

Concerning the Arcnautica I can't understand where they save all this weight to said on their website : 14t loaded and 15t on De Valk
Our Long-Cours 62 only the aluminium part was 11.5t
If we adjust for his length and beam it means 8.6t we need to cut the thickness by 40% to arrive at 5.2t for the hull but in this case can we still qualifier her as "stronger" boat ?

It depends on differences in the construction method (and basic hull design) between the 2. Adding more material adds strength, but you can also gain strength with a more material-efficient design (which often adds cost). So heavier may be stronger, but it's not a guarantee that it's stronger.

 

[Mako]

Regarding that German SAR in post #17, and the response in #20:

What does that mean "If you go hybrid, more" in what way? Boats do not have regenerative braking and battery banks for acceleration. Solar is pretty much useless at providing propulsive energy unless you let them charge for about a month, which will generate enough energy to maneuver in and out of your slip. What am I missing out on?

The SAR's planing or SD hull shape is not ideal for long range cruising, nor is the high CoG and windage. Fuel use is 10+ gph at 8 knots on two engines, slightly less on one. I didn't see the cost to purchase that boat, but a shipyard will easily devour 1/2 mil converting it for personal use.

It is very cool looking of course, but let it be someone else's dream.

 

[mvweebles]

Cost of boat
Purchase price minus recovery at resale. Plus outfitting cost, refitting cost and cost of ownership (maintenance, repairs, servicing, fuel, insurance, fees, storage etc.).

PAE/Nordhavn understood this early on and made great efforts to create/support/control the resale market. While expensive boats, the TCO is remarkably low given the high resale value, even for older boats that are past the age of being an easy sale as option to waiting a year or two for new build. Most builders set their customers adrift.

To another post about repurposing a SAR boat with twin 800hp engines. I cannot imagine the work involved in reducing 4" prop shafts down to 2". And that's just a start. You still have a hull, rudders, etc. designed for a very specific use case that is anti-cruusing.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

The first real conversion vessel I saw back in the 70's was a converted wooden Gulf shrimp boat. I was infatuated with the concept.

When I went to buy my first liveaboard sailboat at 26 years old, I looked at the hull and deck of an old coastal schooner and fell in love...imagining myself swaying below decks in a hammock napping to beautiful wooden interiors (pretty well stripped).

Later after 2 liveaboards and working commercial vessels from Maine fishing boats to Gulf crew boats...I saw potential liveaboard cruisers in all of them.

What did I wind up living aboard? A 30' Cape Dory Ketch, a 37 foot Silverton sportfish and a 40 foot Albin trawler.

Dreaming? Sure with the best of them...then my nautical (both rec and commercial) experience kicked in and brough reality crashing down around me. Every argument for those dreams evaporated with common sense based issues like costs and time.

Dreaming is great when you don't know what you don't know or are willing to give up a lot more that most of us in terms of practicality.

One thing I learned a long time ago. Because no boat is perfect for all things....you buy to fit your style or adapt your style to fit the boat. The final word is if you think you found the perfect boat for more than a day....you are either very lucky, kidding yourself about a lot of things, or the most flexible boater I ever met.

 

[JWellington]

I would argue the most seaworthy boat is one where the skipper knows enough to not need the capabilities...
This is strictly for us fair weather boaters like me....We go out for fun, not to get beat to death.

Sure, a guy could could cross the Pacific in the KOn Tiki again. Not for me.