Similar Ships to LRC 58

[BruceK]

Years back we had an Artnautica proponent (maybe even an Agent) on TF, screen name included "Artnautica Fan", from recall a US resident. Further strained recall is the Harjamaa name (?Dennis) was associated with Artnautica.

 

[Simi 60]

I don't get this quest for super efficiency whilst spending millions of dollars to get it

I'd far rather big bulky, old skool comfort and sea keeping ability
A higher fuel burn for sure
But a million or more in $aving$ on purchase to buy diesel and maintenance.

The buyer of the super efficient boat still has to find fuel and maintenance dollars on top.
Not sounding very efficient at all.

 

[mvweebles]

Simi: I had the same thought. What efficiency does buy you is range and speed, the use case for FPB. Tradeoff is expense, both purchase and dockage due to skinny hull

George Buehler had a simple and efficient design philosophy - check Ellemaid . I think only one or two were actually built. One languished for sale for a very long time and apparently sold. They are relatively some construction so build time would be reduced.

https://georgebuehler.com/71-ellemaid/

Wife of a very good friend suffers from seasickness. So they bought a Horizon 52 Power Cat. Great at anchor. She still gets seasick underway and it's a problem. He's a very experienced sailor and in his opinion, the ride on a stabilized monohull trawler is more comfortable than his PC. But his PC52 boat bears little resemblance to Malcom Tenant designs such as Klee Wicks Domino. KW has owned full displacement trawlers for years and I'd be interested in his take on the comparison.

Hopefully, a TF member Hippocampus will find this thread. Like the OP, a lifelong Bluewater sailor converting to Trawlers. He's mentioned Artnautica several times as his dream boat (I had never heard of them prior). After almost two years of trying to find a long distance Bluewater trawler in decent condition within his budget, he punted and decided on Coastal passagemaking - a nicely appointed and stabilized (Seakeeper) Nordic Tug 42.

Sounds like OP has three issues that will drive to needle-haystack search. Wife's seasickness, desire for incredible fuel efficiency, and budget constraints. Not a good market for highly specific selection criteria. May want to consider a build. In the end, might be faster than finding the perfect used example.

Good luck

Peter

 

[SailorGreg]

Hello everyone,



My wife and I have been sailing about a decade in either smaller cruises or 3 or 4 months or longer ones of 6+ months to 1 year. Together we have covered at least 10k nautical miles all over the USA and Western Caribbean. We currently sail on an all aluminum Ovni 37.



Unfortunately my wife has never really mastered her seasickness and we are to the point where we are looking to get out of sailing, but perhaps take up trawlering.



So far the best answer I have found to suit our needs and priorities is the LRC 58 from Artnautica. Unfortunately these boats are so new that they are beyond our budget, although I have reached out to discuss a partial build delivery.



I am writing this post because I am sure there are other boats similar to the LRC 58 out there- I just dont know them. But I know there are some very knowledgeable people here on the forum who likely do.



Can you guys give me the names of any motor vessels built in the past similar to the LRC 58's priorities of efficiency low maintenance and safety?

Hi, since you can’t afford what you want, it might be more effective if you laid out your key criteria, cruising plans, and budget and see what responses you get. The more specific you are, the fewer “ all over the map” responses will clutter the thread. And whatever you want, there will be significant trade-offs.
You say you are looking for fuel efficiency, but want gyro stabilization. That means running your genset 24/7. Fin stabilization plus flopper stoppers at anchor achieves similar results at far less cost or complexity.
Lots of builders claim ease of maintenance. Yes, access is important, but Diesel engines and hydraulic systems are complex and require specialized skills to maintain. power boats have a level of complexity beyond your sailboat. And we came from many thousands of sailing sea miles prior to moving onto a trawler.
No builder can significantly reduce that complexity. Add gyro systems and all of a sudden you have completely violated the designers ( and your) objective for ease of maintenance.
Regardless of what you buy, if you are traveling at displacement speeds, fuel costs will not be a driver to your ability to afford the lifestyle.
We have happily transitioned from sail to power, and I am sure you will to, but it does take a significant change in mindset, and an additional set of skills.

 

[CruiserhHeart]

?....,better stick with sail! 5 nmpg in a power vessel that I would be willing to spend days, weeks, or months on is not something that I have run across. (And, I spend an insane amount of time looking at boats)

Its interesting you say that because in this thread we have identified at least 3 designs that achieve this.



But I would agree with you its the not common trawler type.

 

[klee wyck]

Simi: I had the same thought. What efficiency does buy you is range and speed, the use case for FPB. Tradeoff is expense, both purchase and dockage due to skinny hull

George Buehler had a simple and efficient design philosophy - check Ellemaid . I think only one or two were actually built. One languished for sale for a very long time and apparently sold. They are relatively some construction so build time would be reduced.

https://georgebuehler.com/71-ellemaid/

Wife of a very good friend suffers from seasickness. So they bought a Horizon 52 Power Cat. Great at anchor. She still gets seasick underway and it's a problem. He's a very experienced sailor and in his opinion, the ride on a stabilized monohull trawler is more comfortable than his PC. But his PC52 boat bears little resemblance to Malcom Tenant designs such as Klee Wicks Domino. KW has owned full displacement trawlers for years and I'd be interested in his take on the comparison.

Hopefully, a TF member Hippocampus will find this thread. Like the OP, a lifelong Bluewater sailor converting to Trawlers. He's mentioned Artnautica several times as his dream boat (I had never heard of them prior). After almost two years of trying to find a long distance Bluewater trawler in decent condition within his budget, he punted and decided on Coastal passagemaking - a nicely appointed and stabilized (Seakeeper) Nordic Tug 42.

Sounds like OP has three issues that will drive to needle-haystack search. Wife's seasickness, desire for incredible fuel efficiency, and budget constraints. Not a good market for highly specific selection criteria. May want to consider a build. In the end, might be faster than finding the perfect used example.

Good luck

Peter

Thanks for the interesting prompt in your question directed at me above, Peter.
There are many of these questions/debates around the subject of boating and around long-range cruising/passagemaking specifically.
Our human nature makes us desire a simple and sure answer to these multifaceted subjects so that we can make the perfect choice. We can desire that certainty and let our decision making be paralyzed by that, or we can accept the reality that it is all a set of compromises and like Hippo's fine example, we look at the options, we make our own personal set of compromises, and we go boating. We can get excellence in meeting our needs, but we do not get perfection. Ever. No matter how much we agonize over it.
Yes, I drive heavy, round bilged, full displacement, single engine, monohulled boats designed for 'efficiency'. And yes, I have studied and begun to operate a multihull that is designed around the same concept as the FPB where we take advantage of the 'long, lean, fast (relatively speaking) hydrodynamics.
In terms of efficiency, here is my non-expert perception:
My two heavy displacement classic Beebe concept vessels could be very efficient, but personally I found that efficiency sweet spot to be BELOW hull speed and not AT hull speed as it is classically calculated. At hull speed, pretty hard to get these boats much over 2-3 nmpg but many of them over 4 at a knot or so below hull speed. It seems simple that when a bow wave or stern wave appears, you are consuming energy to move water in addition to the energy to move the boat. You cannot beat these physical laws of nature, I think.
So, in the end, if consumption is your only driver, you are tied directly to the length for how far you get in one day's time. Period.
When comparing the heavy monohull to the cat, it does appear that the 12+ length to beam pushes easier than the heavy 3:1 length to beam monohull. Plus, in this configuration you buy more length for the same money once you have set the constraint for how much fuel, water, and cargo/supplies you think you need to transport. Thus, you gain speed almost for free in the long lean versions.
To put this in more concise terms: for the same amount of fuel carrying the same amount of contents when making the crossing from the US to Hawaii for example, on the monohull I arrive in 17 days and in the cat I arrive in 12 days. Do you care?? Is it safer due to a shorter window?

Now, on the motion question: my wife and sailing partner has been known to spend some time at the rail. I have been in situations where I have thought that I might get there. That takes some fun out of it, right?
The gap in my ability to contribute to this discussion is around active or passive stabilization of a heavy monohull. Many of these things are not rational but I have taken the path of ballast and design to enhance stability in the monuhulls that I have owned and avoided the moving parts and expense of the more dynamic options. So, I can only compare a well-designed but non-stabilized monohull to a well-designed but non stabilized multihull. Here again, and I find myself not wanting to admit this even to myself, the cat appears to win. Do you care about this? Are you affected by motion either in terms of nausea or even just the exhaustion that motion creates even where 'sea sickness' is not part of it?
I sort of like the motion of the monohull on short to moderate cruise days, but I am less exhausted by long days on the cat. No question. My wife has not been to the rail on the cat under the same conditions where she clearly has been there on a motor sailing displacement monohull off the coast of Austrailia, where that motor sailor was quieter than either of my monohulls would have been. All vessels were sans fins or fish.

I like them both. I am excited by the cat. I am not selling the heavy monohull that would be the classic attempt at what was promoted as the ideal for passage making in the first edition of Voyaging Under Power.
However, some of you may have noticed that these ocean multihulls have made their way into the fourth edition of this same treatise on long range cruising, and there is even a discussion of my specific vessel, Domino, acknowledging that perhaps we should be thinking about this as a reasonable way to serve the mission.
There is no right answer, just the answer that is right for you, one that you can afford and enjoy. Go get it.

 

[CruiserhHeart]

I don't get this quest for super efficiency whilst spending millions of dollars to get it

I'd far rather big bulky, old skool comfort and sea keeping ability
A higher fuel burn for sure
But a million or more in $aving$ on purchase to buy diesel and maintenance.

The buyer of the super efficient boat still has to find fuel and maintenance dollars on top.
Not sounding very efficient at all.

Simi,



Thats the goal of asking a more broadly educated/knowledgeable group of trawler enthusiasts to help me identify older models to put on my search list that match the criteria and due to age wont cost so much.



Because I agree with you- a million dollars for an efficient boat kind of defeats the purpose as a couple hundred thousand dollars buys a LOT of fuel.

 

[mvweebles]

Thanks for the interesting prompt in your question directed at me above, Peter.
There are many of these questions/debates around the subject of boating and around long-range cruising/passagemaking specifically.
Our human nature makes us desire a simple and sure answer to these multifaceted subjects so that we can make the perfect choice. We can desire that certainty and let our decision making be paralyzed by that, or we can accept the reality that it is all a set of compromises and like Hippo's fine example, we look at the options, we make our own personal set of compromises, and we go boating. We can get excellence in meeting our needs, but we do not get perfection. Ever. No matter how much we agonize over it.
Yes, I drive heavy, round bilged, full displacement, single engine, monohulled boats designed for 'efficiency'. And yes, I have studied and begun to operate a multihull that is designed around the same concept as the FPB where we take advantage of the 'long, lean, fast (relatively speaking) hydrodynamics.
In terms of efficiency, here is my non-expert perception:
My two heavy displacement classic Beebe concept vessels could be very efficient, but personally I found that efficiency sweet spot to be BELOW hull speed and not AT hull speed as it is classically calculated. At hull speed, pretty hard to get these boats much over 2-3 nmpg but many of them over 4 at a knot or so below hull speed. It seems simple that when a bow wave or stern wave appears, you are consuming energy to move water in addition to the energy to move the boat. You cannot beat these physical laws of nature, I think.
So, in the end, if consumption is your only driver, you are tied directly to the length for how far you get in one day's time. Period.
When comparing the heavy monohull to the cat, it does appear that the 12+ length to beam pushes easier than the heavy 3:1 length to beam monohull. Plus, in this configuration you buy more length for the same money once you have set the constraint for how much fuel, water, and cargo/supplies you think you need to transport. Thus, you gain speed almost for free in the long lean versions.
To put this in more concise terms: for the same amount of fuel carrying the same amount of contents when making the crossing from the US to Hawaii for example, on the monohull I arrive in 17 days and in the cat I arrive in 12 days. Do you care?? Is it safer due to a shorter window?

Now, on the motion question: my wife and sailing partner has been known to spend some time at the rail. I have been in situations where I have thought that I might get there. That takes some fun out of it, right?
The gap in my ability to contribute to this discussion is around active or passive stabilization of a heavy monohull. Many of these things are not rational but I have taken the path of ballast and design to enhance stability in the monuhulls that I have owned and avoided the moving parts and expense of the more dynamic options. So, I can only compare a well-designed but non-stabilized monohull to a well-designed but non stabilized multihull. Here again, and I find myself not wanting to admit this even to myself, the cat appears to win. Do you care about this? Are you affected by motion either in terms of nausea or even just the exhaustion that motion creates even where 'sea sickness' is not part of it?
I sort of like the motion of the monohull on short to moderate cruise days, but I am less exhausted by long days on the cat. No question. My wife has not been to the rail on the cat under the same conditions where she clearly has been there on a motor sailing displacement monohull off the coast of Austrailia, where that motor sailor was quieter than either of my monohulls would have been. All vessels were sans fins or fish.

I like them both. I am excited by the cat. I am not selling the heavy monohull that would be the classic attempt at what was promoted as the ideal for passage making in the first edition of Voyaging Under Power.
However, some of you may have noticed that these ocean multihulls have made their way into the fourth edition of this same treatise on long range cruising, and there is even a discussion of my specific vessel, Domino, acknowledging that perhaps we should be thinking about this as a reasonable way to serve the mission.
There is no right answer, just the answer that is right for you, one that you can afford and enjoy. Go get it.

Thanks Bill - someday maybe I'll be close enough to your neighborhood to nab a ride on Domino. Ride on my friends PC52 is not exactly great to my tastes, but could be that I really like the ride of a stabilized boat, especially my Willard that is low enough and carries enough ballast that stabilizers are only run when needed.

I am not keen on my friend's powercat but draw no parallels to the Malcom Tenant designs - despite being a $2m yacht, the Horizon PC52 bears no closer resemblance to Domino than a Tiara resembles my Willard 36. From what I recall of the listing, Domino was clearly built and outfitted by a very knowledgeable owner intent on distance cruising. Her compromises in accomodation were clear (single head as I recall), but for a couple seeking to cruise at-pace, she made a lot of sense to my tastes. That said, a large catamaran poses challenges in finding a berth.

At any rate, really cool to know the person who now owns a boat I admired from afar, albeit a virtual aquaintance. Glad you're keeping the name. She's sort of a well-known boat. Had I known the original name of my boat, I would have reverted back to it (she had been renamed a couple times - she was Shy Platypus when purchased, a name I could not abide), though I like "Weebles" just fine.

Peter

 

[socalrider]

Simi,

Thats the goal of asking a more broadly educated/knowledgeable group of trawler enthusiasts to help me identify older models to put on my search list that match the criteria and due to age wont cost so much.

Because I agree with you- a million dollars for an efficient boat kind of defeats the purpose as a couple hundred thousand dollars buys a LOT of fuel.

I certainly identify with your reasons for asking the question. Some idea of budget would be helpful. I think 5nmpg is going to be tough for anything with twin engines that's not a power cat in the DOMINO mold. If a new build is out of the question you might find a FD vessel that you could re-power for maximum efficiency, though I suspect you'll find that unless you are racking up tremendous mileage it'll be pretty tough to justify. I've always liked the idea of taking one of those older LRC's (like a Hatt 48 or 58) and putting in a couple of small Betas to replace the 4-71's or 6-71's. I suspect it would be almost impossible to get to 5nmpg though - maybe 2-3.

Check out MOLLY BAN, a long skinny single-engine Irens design that claims 1l/nm at 10kts - I'd bet she'd do close to 5 mpg throttled back to 7 or 8kts.

What about a motorsailer like a Nauticat? Use the sails as your stabilizer, could hit your efficiency targets, etc. Could work if you're okay with going slow.

 

[CruiserhHeart]

Hi, since you can’t afford what you want, it might be more effective if you laid out your key criteria, cruising plans, and budget and see what responses you get. The more specific you are, the fewer “ all over the map” responses will clutter the thread. And whatever you want, there will be significant trade-offs.
You say you are looking for fuel efficiency, but want gyro stabilization. That means running your genset 24/7. Fin stabilization plus flopper stoppers at anchor achieves similar results at far less cost or complexity.
Lots of builders claim ease of maintenance. Yes, access is important, but Diesel engines and hydraulic systems are complex and require specialized skills to maintain. power boats have a level of complexity beyond your sailboat. And we came from many thousands of sailing sea miles prior to moving onto a trawler.
No builder can significantly reduce that complexity. Add gyro systems and all of a sudden you have completely violated the designers ( and your) objective for ease of maintenance.
Regardless of what you buy, if you are traveling at displacement speeds, fuel costs will not be a driver to your ability to afford the lifestyle.
We have happily transitioned from sail to power, and I am sure you will to, but it does take a significant change in mindset, and an additional set of skills.

Diesel engines and hydraulic systems are fine by me. When properly accessible, and protected from sun/spray, maintenance is not a terrible thing as they are straight forward to understand and have well know service intervals to prevent issues at sea.



Life itself is a great compromise and I am well aware that a boat is a complicated one. I have been boating my entire life and working in the marine industry, on the floor and then an office, for over a decade, though primarily on outboard powered center consoles and sport yachts. I have owned 3 different sailing boats and sailed many thousands of miles on a few others as well, so I can understand the complicated situation of balance required in a boat.



As you rightly pointed out, hydraulic stabilizer fins seem to be still a bit more sensible than the electric gyro stabilizer type because of gen-set demand.

Although the new "smart" high output alternator control systems like Nigel Calders "Integral Solutions" have come a long way in recent years and may offer a balance to be found from excess hp available from the main engine- at the compromise of GPH of course.



I will say I am quite enjoying the all over the map responses- sometimes budget needs to be expanded, or shrunk, to accommodate a goal. I am seeking education on available types and designers more than specific perfect fit answers.



I am quite willing and open to having a boat built. I would probably go with a partial completion delivery in aluminum if I chose this route and finish it out myself with the aid of some contractors. MEP systems design has been one of my employment roles for years.



After itching for a living for so long, I quite despise fiberglass these days. After having made the switch to our current aluminum Ovni, it would be hard to go back- but I am not firmly against it either. It cant be beat for mass production.

 

[dannc]

Years back we had an Artnautica proponent (maybe even an Agent) on TF, screen name included "Artnautica Fan", from recall a US resident. Further strained recall is the Harjamaa name (?Dennis) was associated with Artnautica.

Yes, Harjamaa is the designer of the Artnautica boats, LRCs and XPM models.

I would expect the Artnautica representative to show up soon.

Later,
Dan

 

[CruiserhHeart]

I certainly identify with your reasons for asking the question. Some idea of budget would be helpful. I think 5nmpg is going to be tough for anything with twin engines that's not a power cat in the DOMINO mold. If a new build is out of the question you might find a FD vessel that you could re-power for maximum efficiency, though I suspect you'll find that unless you are racking up tremendous mileage it'll be pretty tough to justify. I've always liked the idea of taking one of those older LRC's (like a Hatt 48 or 58) and putting in a couple of small Betas to replace the 4-71's or 6-71's. I suspect it would be almost impossible to get to 5nmpg though - maybe 2-3.

Check out MOLLY BAN, a long skinny single-engine Irens design that claims 1l/nm at 10kts - I'd bet she'd do close to 5 mpg throttled back to 7 or 8kts.

What about a motorsailer like a Nauticat? Use the sails as your stabilizer, could hit your efficiency targets, etc. Could work if you're okay with going slow.

"Molly Ban" is a great one! I have seen Nigel Irens designs before, but will take a closer look.

I think 8kn is plenty compared to the unpredictable speeds I am used to sailing.



Not interested in motor-sailors. I feel if I am going to sail, I might as well enjoy it and I have not been on a motor-sailor and felt it performed well under sail compared to an Ovni.

They sail like the classic designs of early sailboats: Valiants, Westsnails, Colin Archer types.. Our second boat was a Atkins BenBow Cutter. They get you there safe as a bomb shelter, but could hardly be called fun to sail.

 

[CruiserhHeart]

Yes, Harjamaa is the designer of the Artnautica boats, LRCs and XPM models.

I would expect the Artnautica representative to show up soon.

Later,
Dan

I did reach out to gather further information on a partial build delivery. I am sure doing so over Christmas is the reason I have not gotten more information.



I just thought there would be a few others who came before and so far we have identified all sorts of them, a solid 4 at this point- though 2 have been one-offs.

 

[dannc]

I did reach out to gather further information on a partial build delivery. I am sure doing so over Christmas is the reason I have not gotten more information.

I just thought there would be a few others who came before and so far we have identified all sorts of them, a solid 4 at this point- though 2 have been one-offs.

There are other designs out there but most are one off builds which we are really not of interest to us.

George Buehler designed some very efficient, traditional, troller/trawlers and we were very interested in his boats. We met George, who was a real character, and traveled to China to visit the Seahorse boat yard. We wanted a slightly larger Diesel Duck which would have required some design work from George but he suddenly died. George's death, and other issues, have seemingly sunk our Diesel Duck Dream.

There is a one off Diesel Duck design in aluminum.

The Diesel Ducks(DD) are very efficient and roomy boats but I don't consider them the same as the FPB and LRC designs. Having said that, the design ideas for the DD, LRC and FPB are similar, but all three designers came up with different solutions.

LRC/XPM and FPBs are the only production builds for a full displacement, AL hull, and efficient designs, that I know about and I sure have looked. Dennis started building the LRC58 in 2013 after designing the boat and selling his house to fund the build. The Morgan's Cloud website has a few articles on the LRCs from back in the day. The articles are likely behind a pay wall but the website is a treasure trove of information and well worth the few dollars it costs.

https://www.morganscloud.com/category/boat-design-selection/series-better-offshore-motor-boats/artnautica-58/

You mentioned you do not want a motor sailor but Ed Joy has this interesting design and one has been built.

https://www.edjoydesign.com/ranger

One of Ed Joy's sailboat designs, the Good Hope 56 has been built in a few different yards in the US, NL, and South Africa. Some of these boats had the hull built and then the owners finished the rest of the boat. The last boat built that I know about, had the hull built in the NL and then it was shipped to Ireland for fitting out. There used to be a boat builder in North Carolina that built at least one DD hull that was shipped to the owner's back yard to be completed. I think that boat is still being built, the owner is creating a work of art with the interior, but the boat builder is no longer building boats.

I remember reading about a boat designer who built his own efficient, AL boat, got the interior finished enough, and went cruising with his wife. Along the way he was finishing the interior. His wife is a very patient person. I don't remember the guy's name or boat. There are one off's designs out there but it takes time to find them.

We have discussed the idea of getting the hull built and finishing out the interior "ourselves." Eastern NC has boat building course in the local community colleges. One of our ideas was to have the hull built in eastern NC or get to the hull to the area, and then use community college programs as a source for the trades people. We are not likely to do this though but it was an idea.

We talked to a fishing trawler builder in Ireland about doing a boat build. Some of their hulls were welded up in Poland and then transported to the Irish yard for finishing. This yard was NOT fitting out the Good Hope 56 from what I can tell.

If Artnautica does not reply to you, let me know and I will private mail you their email address.

We had planned to travel to the NL to visit boat yards, including Arnautica's, in the spring of 2020, and that obviously did not happen that year or in 2021. Maybe in 2022.

Later,
Dan

 

[long-cours.62]

We sold our Long-Cours 62, (ok basic arrangement, no luxury, just what is necessary to cruise in safety, no "gadget" etc) for 295k€.
It means, before covid, It was possible to find boat like you are looking for at reasonable" price.
For example our former boat at little more than 7 kts with our 7500lt tank we could go every where.
With our actual and 9000lt tanks we could "only" made an Atlantic crossing.
When we thinking had one customer ... we looking for our next boat and we looking at this one "Velder 63" not for the arrangement not useful at all, even the boat itself needed some change to become "blue water proof".
But long 19m not too beamy 5 m, and draft and air draft at the maximum we want 1.30m and 3.5m, not too heavy below 30T...But with the covid even this boat who was for sale during years...gone :-(
https://www.yachtworld.fr/yacht/2010-custom-velder-63-3648622/

 

[ksanders]

?....,better stick with sail! 5 nmpg in a power vessel that I would be willing to spend days, weeks, or months on is not something that I have run across. (And, I spend an insane amount of time looking at boats)

Yea, that's not happening.

People don't realize that for most cruisers the fuel expense is a small percentage of their costs.

Start looking at transient slip fees as the big expense.

 

[Taras]

I am a big fan of stabilized, full displacement trawlers, but the answer for this gentleman and his wife maybe a Sailing Catarmaran. You will get very good stability (as long as the Cat 45 feet or more) and incredible economy when sailing or motor sailing. I would CHARTER a Sailing Cat for a week somewhere and see if you and your wife like it.

 

[BruceK]

Yes, Harjamaa is the designer of the Artnautica boats, LRCs and XPM models.

I would expect the Artnautica representative to show up soon.

Later,
Dan

We`ll see, "Retainer" may have been exhausted.

 

[CruiserhHeart]

Yea, that's not happening.

People don't realize that for most cruisers the fuel expense is a small percentage of their costs.

Start looking at transient slip fees as the big expense.

My wife and I prefer not to stay at marinas and avoid them whenever possible. So for us this is not a large portion of our cruising budget.



Seasonal storage can be chosen carefully and we have always found a good spot to store our boats so far that is affordable.



Fuel and maintenance are to me the core operating costs.

 

[CruiserhHeart]

I am a big fan of stabilized, full displacement trawlers, but the answer for this gentleman and his wife maybe a Sailing Catarmaran. You will get very good stability (as long as the Cat 45 feet or more) and incredible economy when sailing or motor sailing. I would CHARTER a Sailing Cat for a week somewhere and see if you and your wife like it.

We have sailed on a couple cats. The one we spent the most time on (a mere 3 days) was 40'. But I have been involved in some day sails on larger ones.



Certainly an option. I have some friends who charter each year and perhaps will try to get onboard. Unfortunately, I dont know that they do much real sailing during their charter- it rather seems they just party every day...

 

[socalrider]

We have sailed on a couple cats. The one we spent the most time on (a mere 3 days) was 40'. But I have been involved in some day sails on larger ones.

Certainly an option. I have some friends who charter each year and perhaps will try to get onboard. Unfortunately, I dont know that they do much real sailing during their charter- it rather seems they just party every day...

Unfortunately a lot of the modern cats are designed for this use case

Our inexpensive trawler is perfect for us right now but if I were to buy a vessel in the $350-500k range to do more extensive cruising up and down the West Coast, I would probably go for a sailing catamaran, ideally one that could actually sail. There was an old Crowther-designed Catana 48r with daggerboards I was eyeing lustfully as a candidate for a significant refit, but I just can't justify it right now. I certainly see the appeal of a custom-build long skinny LRC but the expense would be too much for us and I'm not sure all our kids would fit on it. If you do go that route, please post a thread so we can follow along!

 

[Jeff F]

My wife and I prefer not to stay at marinas and avoid them whenever possible. So for us this is not a large portion of our cruising budget.



Seasonal storage can be chosen carefully and we have always found a good spot to store our boats so far that is affordable.



Fuel and maintenance are to me the core operating costs.

So where are you planning to cruise?

I get the enthusiasm for the boats we're discussing, but they're scarce and very expensive.

Here's my story. Fuel efficiency was near the top of my list when I was shopping for my current boat. As was off-grid cruising capabilities. I do not have a thick boat checkbook.

I found a single engine Navy work boat that was designed in the 1950s, built in the 70s, and converted to a yacht in the 2000s. A one-off that fit my relatively constrained budget. 49' WLL, 15' beam, ~18 tons loaded displacement, 135 hp modern diesel.

I get 5+ NM/gal at < 7 knots, but sometimes travel a little faster. For this year I'm at 984 gallons and 4,195 NM as of my last fill up, so 4.2 nm/gal overall. That includes a few hundred miles at 9 knots during a couple of longer passages.

Boat LOA is bigger than I really need, but like you I'm avoiding some of the typical expenses that come with the length, and gaining economy by traveling well below hull speed where the real fuel saving lie.

Seasickness used to be a weakness for me, and was part of the reason I got into cruising power boats after many miles sailing. I decided to explore lakes, rivers and tributaries and avoid rough water. I've been at it for six years now and it's not getting old. And I've only barfed three times in those years. All good!

Long ocean passages were never part of my selection criteria, and stabilization was a dream in my price range. But that said, the modern crop of gyro stabilizers look very attractive, and I think there are workable schemes for powering them from a robust DC system if that's your thing, at least in the moderately sized units that I've looked at for my boat. Adding one to my boat wouldn't turn it into a passagemaker, but would expand the range of conditions that would be comfortable. It's on my wish list

I offer this up as evidence that there are possibilities. Inevitably compromises too. Which goes back to use case, budget, and weighing of priorities, and usually patience and persistence. Good luck!

Happy New Year to all.

 

[CruiserhHeart]

So where are you planning to cruise?

I get the enthusiasm for the boats we're discussing, but they're scarce and very expensive.

Here's my story. Fuel efficiency was near the top of my list when I was shopping for my current boat. As was off-grid cruising capabilities. I do not have a thick boat checkbook.

I found a single engine Navy work boat that was designed in the 1950s, built in the 70s, and converted to a yacht in the 2000s. A one-off that fit my relatively constrained budget. 49' WLL, 15' beam, ~18 tons loaded displacement, 135 hp modern diesel.

I get 5+ NM/gal at < 7 knots, but sometimes travel a little faster. For this year I'm at 984 gallons and 4,195 NM as of my last fill up, so 4.2 nm/gal overall. That includes a few hundred miles at 9 knots during a couple of longer passages.

Boat LOA is bigger than I really need, but like you I'm avoiding some of the typical expenses that come with the length, and gaining economy by traveling well below hull speed where the real fuel saving lie.

Seasickness used to be a weakness for me, and was part of the reason I got into cruising power boats after many miles sailing. I decided to explore lakes, rivers and tributaries and avoid rough water. I've been at it for six years now and it's not getting old. And I've only barfed three times in those years. All good!

Long ocean passages were never part of my selection criteria, and stabilization was a dream in my price range. But that said, the modern crop of gyro stabilizers look very attractive, and I think there are workable schemes for powering them from a robust DC system if that's your thing, at least in the moderately sized units that I've looked at for my boat. Adding one to my boat wouldn't turn it into a passagemaker, but would expand the range of conditions that would be comfortable. It's on my wish list

I offer this up as evidence that there are possibilities. Inevitably compromises too. Which goes back to use case, budget, and weighing of priorities, and usually patience and persistence. Good luck!

Happy New Year to all.

Happy new year to you as well!!


It sounds like you found a great boat. I am getting the feeling that these types of efficient trawlers are often one-offs in the years past rather than production productions like currently. Which certainly requires persistence and dedication to find and identify.



I too am attracted to the modern gyro stabilizers, the moderately sized ones can certainly be run off a robust 12V system- I have set up some of these on center consoles. Make no mistake, the forces involved are large and certainly require some careful engineering to mount them safely. Having one come loose would definitely be a day wrecker.



But as per the discussion above of a fin stabilizer system running hydraulically off the engine is the more robust system- but has its own complications and compromises, especially regarding maintenance.



I certainly have South Pacific dreams.. So thats a big part of the goals on my list.

 

[Jeff F]

I certainly have South Pacific dreams.. So thats a big part of the goals on my list.

That's the headline requirement then, and narrows the field considerably.

I'd be looking for a sailing multihull if that was my goal.

 

[KnotYet]

That's the headline requirement then, and narrows the field considerably.

I'd be looking for a sailing multihull if that was my goal.

The headline 'Similar Ships to LRC 58' says much the same thing, most clearly.

There are a few less 'exotic' powerboats that will post decent efficiency numbers.

Older single engine designs like Diesel Ducks, Cape Horns, and Seatons, etc, can
be bought for a fraction of Artnautica or FPB prices and not break the fuel budget.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

As mentioned above in response to a post of mine, it’s the need for speed that makes the search interesting. South Pacific dreams under power at greater than 7 or 8 knots…

 

[KnotYet]

As mentioned above in response to a post of mine, it’s the need for speed that makes the search interesting. South Pacific dreams under power at greater than 7 or 8 knots…

Correct, I just keep circling back to the boats that I know of that are out there.

 

[darkside]

The South Pacific is sail cat country. The early Polynesian explorers were correct and the ocean hasn't changed that much.
You get a big platform, it's stable, it's shallow draft and they don't cost that much.
Even better when you are finished with it, lots of other people will want to buy it.

Perhaps the best ocean powercat was on the market, at a very attractive price, for what 4 years? Awesome boat, but not many people have plans that actually need a boat like that.

Our 46' performance sail cat (not a charter condo) could do close to 5 knots at around 2 litres an hour, using one motor in flat water. If you went to 60' and skinny hulls 7kn or 8kn at 5nmpg would be doable.

 

[CruiserhHeart]

Correct, I just keep circling back to the boats that I know of that are out there.

Good point. There are dreams and reality.. I will look more into those brands.



I am familiar with the Diesel Duck, but noticed there was only one aluminum. I dont think I could own steel. The blogs and articles detailing crevice corrosion issues and the constant maintenance of paint is not for me. For those who find joy in paint, you are truly blessed. I despise that kind of labor at this point. I also did not see any in fiberglass, but perhaps this is coming. They certainly are affordable.

 

[CruiserhHeart]

The South Pacific is sail cat country. The early Polynesian explorers were correct and the ocean hasn't changed that much.
You get a big platform, it's stable, it's shallow draft and they don't cost that much.
Even better when you are finished with it, lots of other people will want to buy it.

Perhaps the best ocean powercat was on the market, at a very attractive price, for what 4 years? Awesome boat, but not many people have plans that actually need a boat like that.

Our 46' performance sail cat (not a charter condo) could do close to 5 knots at around 2 litres an hour, using one motor in flat water. If you went to 60' and skinny hulls 7kn or 8kn at 5nmpg would be doable.

What is the make/model of the "best ocean powercat"?