At what point do I need a captain?

[pjtemplin]

I'm dreaming of big boats, and wondering: who dictates and at what point do I need to have a captain on my boat? I've heard that 24 meters is a key threshold, but if I'm handling my own boat and not charging friends to come along for the ride (so no "paying passengers"), where might I find some legit regulations that require me to either get a captain's license myself or hire a captain for my boat?

 

[tiltrider1]

Your insurance company is usually what drives the need for a captain

 

[Lepke]

200 tons

 

[mvweebles]

As tiltridr1 states, there is no legal or regulatory requirement to have a captain or a captains license to operate a boat of any size. But an insurance company will place restrictions. Without insurance, you cannot get a loan, and marinas and boatyards will not accept you.

Good luck.

Peter

 

[fgarriso]

You ALWAYS need a captain

 

[Benthic2]

I know every boat is different, but about how big is a 200 ton boat ? Is that over 75'?........100'?

Thanks.

 

[Portage_Bay]

I know every boat is different, but about how big is a 200 ton boat ? Is that over 75'?........100'?

Thanks.

There is almost no relationship between tonnage, especially gross tonnage used in the US, and length. Here's extreme example 180ft, 800 passengers, 91 gross tons https://www.pinnaclemarine.com/royal-argosy/

And a quote from SuperYachtTimes

"200- GT Yachts There are currently 4251 yachts under 200 GT afloat as of today. The longest yacht under 200 GT is Adela, built by Pendennis Shipyard Ltd in 1995, with a length of of 55m. On average yachts under 200 GT have a length of 30m, and can accommodate up to 8 guests. Last year there was a total of 109 yachts under 200 GT built."

30 meters is 98.4 ft.

 

[Hippocampus]

Have many friends who go bare on insurance beyond liability. Marinas usually only care about liability which usually also contains hazardous waste.
Avoid having loans but still get insurance. We’ve been paying extra through the years to allow fewer restrictions on number of crew and allowed transits/cruising grounds. Unfortunately this usually requires a owner only operated policy and vetting of crew by the insurance company. I have to get a rider to have anyone else move the boat which is occasionally a PIA. Flew home and wanted the boat pulled for a short haul (bottom). Move of under 200y. Had a yacht master watching the boat. Still had to have him approved to move her. PIA. Fortunately no additional charge as he was overqualified.

 

[psneeld]

110 feet, 168 tons "displacement"....different from documentation I believe.

 

[Benthic2]

Thanks. ( re: tonnage/length correlation info )

 

[BandB]

I'm dreaming of big boats, and wondering: who dictates and at what point do I need to have a captain on my boat? I've heard that 24 meters is a key threshold, but if I'm handling my own boat and not charging friends to come along for the ride (so no "paying passengers"), where might I find some legit regulations that require me to either get a captain's license myself or hire a captain for my boat?

24 meters is a European cutoff, not US.

There is no size in the US that, by law, requires you to have a captain. However, depending on your experience, you may be required by insurance to have one initially and typically that happens over 50'. Then you'll likely require a captain to sign off on your skills. It all depends on how big a jump you're making.

 

[Shrew]

I've heard of people with no practical boating experience having insurance companies require a captain for boats smaller than 50 feet.

 

[Arc]

Forget all this insurance stuff. The question is, what is your comfort level? Can you navigate to your destination? Can you enter and dock in extreme conditions? and can you handle emergency situations? Are you physically able to get around your boat without issue? These are questions you must answer.
They apply to any tonnage not just heavy displacement. If you are experienced, stay sharp and agile. You can do everything a pro Captain can do. When you see a pattern of errors , it’s time to start hiring.

 

[Jmarsh203]

Keep this in mind having a little piece of paper in your hand saying that you are qualified to drive a certain tonnage boat does not mean you are capable to drive said boat. I have seen may a “captain” and yes that includes paid captains tear some stuff up when they should not have and was completely there ineptitude that was the cause. That also extends into the commercial world, I know 20+ year captains that have been running 900 feet or greater of barges up and down the Mississippi for there entire career and when you compare them to other people some with much less time on the water they look incompetent. I don’t know how to quantify what “it” is but some people just have it and others do not and no amount of training or time will get you that.. If you get a big boat get a captain for a couple trips to show you the basics and figure out the rest on the fly. It may become expensive but the best boat drivers I have ever met have still tore some stuff up at some point in there career. Rules of the road are your best friend if you know them and follow them. Requirements for gentleman boater size licensing for the most part are time on water on said size boat not-prove a certain set of skills so if insurance is requiring a captains license to move the boat and you don’t want a captain get the license yourself. I know guys that have gotten 200 ton license that have never driven anything larger than a 10foot dingy so not that hard to do. If you passed high school with a little bit of studying you should easily be able to pass the tests required.

 

[DDW]

There are some places that will require a pilot if over a certain size. For example Alaska over 65' unless you obtain an exception.

 

[Shrew]

who dictates and at what point do I need to have a captain on my boat?

Forget all this insurance stuff. The question is, what is your comfort level? Can you navigate to your destination? Can you enter and dock in extreme conditions? and can you handle emergency situations? Are you physically able to get around your boat without issue? These are questions you must answer.
They apply to any tonnage not just heavy displacement. If you are experienced, stay sharp and agile. You can do everything a pro Captain can do. When you see a pattern of errors , it’s time to start hiring.

I hate to say it, but this is pretty bad advice based on the scope of the question.

The answer IS.....The Insurance Company.

 

[pjtemplin]

Keep this in mind having a little piece of paper in your hand saying that you are qualified to drive a certain tonnage boat does not mean you are capable to drive said boat. I have seen may a “captain” and yes that includes paid captains tear some stuff up when they should not have and was completely there ineptitude that was the cause. That also extends into the commercial world, I know 20+ year captains that have been running 900 feet or greater of barges up and down the Mississippi for there entire career and when you compare them to other people some with much less time on the water they look incompetent. I don’t know how to quantify what “it” is but some people just have it and others do not and no amount of training or time will get you that.. If you get a big boat get a captain for a couple trips to show you the basics and figure out the rest on the fly. It may become expensive but the best boat drivers I have ever met have still tore some stuff up at some point in there career. Rules of the road are your best friend if you know them and follow them. Requirements for gentleman boater size licensing for the most part are time on water on said size boat not-prove a certain set of skills so if insurance is requiring a captains license to move the boat and you don’t want a captain get the license yourself. I know guys that have gotten 200 ton license that have never driven anything larger than a 10foot dingy so not that hard to do. If you passed high school with a little bit of studying you should easily be able to pass the tests required.

Several folks have made this same case. I'm not going to say that you're wrong in any way, but it doesn't answer the question. Take a step back and relax. There was a point behind my question, not relevant to asking the question but here it is: if I'm going to work my butt off to buy a nice boat so I can go enjoy boating in various waters, that enjoyment changes significantly if I'm doing so at the behest of a captain. In some ways, it's better (less stress!), but in some ways it's not (loss of decision-making, and frankly the pilothouse is no longer "my lair"). So while many of you have good points, you've missed the point, but thanks for your insights.

 

[pjtemplin]

There are some places that will require a pilot if over a certain size. For example Alaska over 65' unless you obtain an exception.

Thanks for trying, but it didn't take me long to see that this applies if the boat is of foreign registry. While far away, Washington state is one of the 50 United States, just like Alaska, so this rule won't apply to me.

 

[tiltrider1]

Your insurance company is going to get nervous if you jump up more than 10 feet. They will want you to operate with a Captain for a stated time that seems to vary depending on the insurance company and the jump in size. So if you go from 20' to 100' your insurance company will probably want a captain on board for a year or 100 hours. If you are going from 40 feet to 60 feet you will probably only need a captain for 10 hours. I don't know at what point the Insurance company says "you need to go get a Captains License". I know lots of people operating 90' boat with no License. I don't know any one who is operating a boat over 100' with out a license. My guess is a lot of Insurance companies make it expensive over 100' to not have a License. The coast guard has a Yacht License that is all the same schooling as a 6 pack but just a lot less sea time required.

 

[psneeld]

Haven't heard of a USCG Yacht license..... any info on that?

 

[Simi 60]

No size limits over here as long as its for private recreational use........frightening

No Australian state or territory restricts the size of a pleasure boat that someone can skipper, meaning that anyone authorised to steer a recreational boat can jump straight up from a decidedly second-hand tinnie fitted with a 15hp two-stroke outboard engine to a 30-metre-plus superyacht packing several thousand horses.

Pilotage areas
There are, however, some restrictions around where you can drive a big boat.

In NSW, Queensland and Victoria, if you enter a declared pilotage area such as a major port or the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park, you may need the services of a marine pilot to help you navigate the waters. This, though, only applies if the vessel you’re steering is more than 35 metres long, so it really only applies to superyachts.

And this in the Northern Territory

The exception to everything, though, is in the Northern Territory where absolute boating freedom reigns supreme. Here, you don’t need a boat licence – if asked, you just have to demonstrate that you have an understanding of the navigation and on-water safety framework – or even a registered boat, and there’s absolutely no limit to how large a vessel you can legally steer.

Best of all, because NT laws don’t recognise boats as vehicles, you can’t be pinged on the water for drink-driving unless there’s an on-water incident that attracts the attention of police. In theory, any resident of the Territory can read the official boat operator's handbook, then go out and buy Aussie John Symond’s 73-metre Hasna (it's for sale for a lazy $160 million, after all) and steam into Darwin with an open stubbie of beer in their hand and no one – not even police – will raise an eyebrow.

https://www.boatsales.com.au/editorial/details/how-big-a-boat-can-i-drive-in-australia-121365

 

[rgano]

I'm dreaming of big boats, and wondering: who dictates and at what point do I need to have a captain on my boat? I've heard that 24 meters is a key threshold, but if I'm handling my own boat and not charging friends to come along for the ride (so no "paying passengers"), where might I find some legit regulations that require me to either get a captain's license myself or hire a captain for my boat?

Pete, with the "legal" limit for a recreational vessel apparently unlimited and the realistic limits influenced by insurance, your personal qualifications and experience would be needed for us to make any sensible answer. My own concern would be qualified crew to help me, the only captain aboard, run the thing.

 

[tiltrider1]

Haven't heard of a USCG Yacht license..... any info on that?

This might be an Insurance derivative of the OUPV 6 pax license. I know a lot of boat owners have been getting this to save money. From what I have heard it is the 6pax course but with out the time at sea. I've seen it advertised but I have never looked into the details.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

When I was boat shopping before I bought my present boat I was looking at a nice older Commander in Florida. Right size, price was good, walk through was pleasant and the engines sounded great. I suggested a little "putt" around the harbor. The owner got evasive, finally admitting he couldn't take the boat out without a captain on board. His insurance company demanded it.

He wanted me to cover the cost of the captain. I didn't want to do that so we took a walk.

pete

 

[BandB]

There was a point behind my question, not relevant to asking the question but here it is: if I'm going to work my butt off to buy a nice boat so I can go enjoy boating in various waters, that enjoyment changes significantly if I'm doing so at the behest of a captain. In some ways, it's better (less stress!), but in some ways it's not (loss of decision-making, and frankly the pilothouse is no longer "my lair"). So while many of you have good points, you've missed the point, but thanks for your insights.

To address your specific question here. You can have the best of both worlds with a Captain. You can take the helm, be in charge, when you want but then use them other times. In fact, in South Florida, there are many who use captains to take care of their maintenance needs, arrange whatever is needed as yacht managers, then sometimes take the boat out on their own and other times use the captain/yacht manager.

For instance, some will decide to go on an evening cruise to Miami for dinner with a good bit of drinking and use the captain for those trips. Others will use a captain for two weeks in the Bahamas as captains have such knowledge of what can be done where, can book anyplace needed and free the family to have fun together, go snorkeling, enjoy whatever they want to do. A good captain also knows how to deal with any problems that arise.

So, it doesn't have to be one or the other, but can be both. Also, can use a captain to help with your own training on the boat.

 

[Benthic2]

If your long range goal is to enjoy boating with a boat that might be "captain-worthy", why not get a smaller boat now to start your journey on. You can start building your skills (and confidence) on a 30 footer so then when you go big, you will already possess a skill base to build on rather than starting from scratch.

There is a lot more to running a boat than just handling. Navigation, weather, rules of the road, electrical and plumbing systems, engine maintenance and more. All of these skills can be learned on a "small" boat and would make your big boat ownership more enjoyable. And, when it comes to handling, you are going to bump into a few pilings and docks at some point...everyone does eventually. Its nice to do that on an older less expensive boat than your "forever boat"

 

[bikeandboat]

In the past I had a 6-pack license and did operate a number of boats for many different reasons. The most prevalent reason was fear, especially a new boat owner wanting to travel the Lower Mississippi River. Some only wanted me there to navigate while others never wanted to touch the wheel. I would design the trip according to their desires, as long as it was safe.

 

[SteveK]

Some of the locals may remember when Princess Di visited with prince Charles for Expo 1986. They were invited for a harbor cruise by Jack Charles owner of the 115 yacht he built and which he captained.

Well someone said you are not a certified captain and must have a captain drive the boat while they are on board. A compromise was made and "the captain" stood behind Jack while he steered his yacht.

Trivia
Crescent Beach Boat Builders started in Crescent Beach Marina. They launched up to 135 foot boats on an ordinary boat launch ramp.

 

[Arc]

I hate to say it, but this is pretty bad advice based on the scope of the question.

The answer IS.....The Insurance Company.

So if your insurance co. says your good to go , I guess nothing else matters.

 

[Spinner]

I am going to pipe up - insurance may or may not require a captain if you jump more than 10 feet. On my most recent last boat purchase in 2018, I jumped from a 31 foot Ranger Tug to a 42 foot Nordic Tug (that measures out LOA at 50.5 feet). No issues or questions from the insurance broker that I use for my yacht policy. Was I just lucky??

By the way, I got my 6-pack (OUPV) license in 2020. It was worth about $2.00 on my insurance :-D