The recent thread on finding a crew position to build experience, got me thinking about my own experience in both a commercial setting as captain as well as unpaid crew.
First, as unpaid crew (other than expenses) to help a boat owner move his new boat to its final mooring area, I think any recreational boat policy will recognize that this use is covered under the policy for both the captain and his crew. So if something disastrous happens, i.e. a fellow crew member falls off and drowns or you hit another boat and knock a passenger off and he drowns, the captain's boat policy should cover the claim (if proven) up to the policy limits of typically $1.0 million or more if there is also an umbrella policy.
It probably gets sticky if the crew member is being paid for his time. The insurance company (if they know this) might not cover his liability since he is getting paid, but that is just a supposition on my part.
Much clearer is what happens when a boat broker causes an accident while showing a boat and causes significant damage, injury or death. Boat brokers are considered independent contractors and even though the brokerage has insurance, it usually does not extend to the boat broker.
How do I know this? Well, I worked as a boat broker for about a year in Annapolis. This was a very responsible brokerage. The owner was president of the boat broker's association, YBAA and she played by all of the rules and did not allow any gimmicks (well we could be on the receiving end of a gimmick if another broker was the listing agent, but hey that is the way buying and selling almost anything works these days. Look at what is going on in commission splitting in the real estate industry today).
I am a pretty astute guy although no lawyer so I asked my new boss if I could look at her policy, and she was quite open with me. The policy clearly covered the owner and the brokerage's employees and no one else. I wasn't an employee as noted above.
I talked to my fellow brokers and they really didn't care. Their assets weren't worth litigating over, but mine probably were. I talked to a couple of marine insurance agents and discovered that a liability only policy covering me would take about 15% of my annual gross income as a broker. I even found a couple of pending cases. In one a broker was showing a boat and when he pulled the boat into the dock and bumped and scraped pretty hard, one of his passenger's fingers got pinched off in the impact. The passenger obviously was claiming that she wasn't warned to keep her fingers inside the boat, he crashed into the dock and her husband was an attorney! The guy was royally screwed.
So, I hired an Annapolis marine attorney to consult with and he agreed with all of the above. He suggested forming an LLC for just me, putting my LLC name on my business cards, opening a bank account for the LLC's income (commissions) and expenses and always making it known to potential customers that I was operating under the LLC, not as an individual. That is what PSneed did in the previous thread. It cost about $1,000 in legal fees (20 years ago) and was cheaper than a few months of insurance, so I did it. Fortunately I had no claims and all worked out well.
I am not sure that much has changed in the last twenty years. The US is still a highly litigious country, the claims and awards keep getting higher and the reasons more absurd.*So be aware of the risks and act accordingly.
David
First, as unpaid crew (other than expenses) to help a boat owner move his new boat to its final mooring area, I think any recreational boat policy will recognize that this use is covered under the policy for both the captain and his crew. So if something disastrous happens, i.e. a fellow crew member falls off and drowns or you hit another boat and knock a passenger off and he drowns, the captain's boat policy should cover the claim (if proven) up to the policy limits of typically $1.0 million or more if there is also an umbrella policy.
It probably gets sticky if the crew member is being paid for his time. The insurance company (if they know this) might not cover his liability since he is getting paid, but that is just a supposition on my part.
Much clearer is what happens when a boat broker causes an accident while showing a boat and causes significant damage, injury or death. Boat brokers are considered independent contractors and even though the brokerage has insurance, it usually does not extend to the boat broker.
How do I know this? Well, I worked as a boat broker for about a year in Annapolis. This was a very responsible brokerage. The owner was president of the boat broker's association, YBAA and she played by all of the rules and did not allow any gimmicks (well we could be on the receiving end of a gimmick if another broker was the listing agent, but hey that is the way buying and selling almost anything works these days. Look at what is going on in commission splitting in the real estate industry today).
I am a pretty astute guy although no lawyer so I asked my new boss if I could look at her policy, and she was quite open with me. The policy clearly covered the owner and the brokerage's employees and no one else. I wasn't an employee as noted above.
I talked to my fellow brokers and they really didn't care. Their assets weren't worth litigating over, but mine probably were. I talked to a couple of marine insurance agents and discovered that a liability only policy covering me would take about 15% of my annual gross income as a broker. I even found a couple of pending cases. In one a broker was showing a boat and when he pulled the boat into the dock and bumped and scraped pretty hard, one of his passenger's fingers got pinched off in the impact. The passenger obviously was claiming that she wasn't warned to keep her fingers inside the boat, he crashed into the dock and her husband was an attorney! The guy was royally screwed.
So, I hired an Annapolis marine attorney to consult with and he agreed with all of the above. He suggested forming an LLC for just me, putting my LLC name on my business cards, opening a bank account for the LLC's income (commissions) and expenses and always making it known to potential customers that I was operating under the LLC, not as an individual. That is what PSneed did in the previous thread. It cost about $1,000 in legal fees (20 years ago) and was cheaper than a few months of insurance, so I did it. Fortunately I had no claims and all worked out well.
I am not sure that much has changed in the last twenty years. The US is still a highly litigious country, the claims and awards keep getting higher and the reasons more absurd.*So be aware of the risks and act accordingly.
David
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