Stuck with removing flywheel from Yanmar 6LY

[DDW]

Greetings,
Mr. DDW. Is a rolling wedge the name of a tool or a technique. Explanation, please. I'm always trying to learn. Thanks

Rolling wedge. It is a type of pry bar used at right angles with limited space. You can push the wedge in to start it, or if there is room tap on the heel with a hammer, then pry.

Rebuilding engines and removing the pilot bushing we'd fill the hole with grease and find or whittle a perfectly sized dowel, stick it in there and give a good whack. Comes out every time. Don't forget a rag around it cause grease usually squirts out.

Be sure to wear your goggles.... I took about 20 pressed in bushings out of a tooling plate this way. It did work, but many times if hit hard enough the grease ignited with a small explosion - dieseling. It would recoil the hammer back with a certain amount of authority!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. DDW. Hey. I've got a couple of those. Never knew their name or exact use. I just thought they were some sort of funky drifts. A good day. I've learned something. Thanks!!

 

[Waterant]

i do not see any space to fit those rolling wedges in.

i heated the pulley again to around 170-200C (340F), looks like MAP torch can not heat more than that. put more penetration oil on it,
tried the 10-ton hydraulic jack again, and tried the slide hammer.
from what i see on the diagram, that pulley is just on a taper with no key or set screws (and none are visible anyway).
I already gave up on the pulley and the bearing and plan to have them replaced, just want that stupid pulley off to get the gears and crankshaft out.
running out of ideas except for the grinder which will be some workout as well as that pulley is pretty thick.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. W. As I mentioned, try an electric impact gun on the center bolt in this set up:

You will have a series of vibrations rather than a steady pull with hydraulics or a one shot with the slide hammer. C'mon. Humour me.


I would also try shorter bolts attached to the pulley (less chance of the bracket sliding off).

 

[Nick F]

Penetrating oil and time . . .

I am watching this with special interest as I am trying to remove the same pulley from my 1974 John Deere. It has probably been there for the whole 48 years.

 

[Nick F]

You could try pulling harder. 25 ton jack? Hold it to the pulley with a 1 inch thick circular plate held by 6 bolts (using all the available holes).

I see that you were putting the heat onto the outer diameter of the pulley. I think you would have more chance if you could apply the heat just outboard of the crankshaft. Use oxy-acetylene to locally take it to red hot, then pull again afterward.

Good luck!

 

[Waterant]

Thanks, I'll see if I can try the impact gun and oxy.
I hope I can rent it locally. Already spent on the new tools more than that freaking pulley worth.
I just afraid to damage the crankshaft if I start cutting and want to try everything I can.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. W. Rent? This is a GREAT excuse for another tool! Less than $50.


https://www.harborfreight.com/autom...n-impact-wrench-with-rocker-switch-61173.html


Of course you will need the 1/2" impact sockets, as well OR just buy the one to fit the puller...


https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-sae-impact-socket-set-13-piece-67918.html

 

[luna]

As long as you are sure that there is nothing other than the taper that is holding the crank pulley onto the crankshaft the following should work.

Install your 2 bolt puller onto the pulley and tighten it up as tight as you dare. A circular plate with multiple bolts will not work as you need room to get heat in there.

Using an Oxy/Acet torch with a heating tip (better yet a RoseBud as they are smaller in diameter) installed, from the front heat the pulley next to the crankshaft and if possible heat the pulley between the back face of the pulley and the block. You never know which area of the taper is really locked. The trick is to heat the bore area of the pulley quickly with little heat getting to the crank. No need to get it red hot as that will just make the pulley soft.

Just continue with even quick heat to all of the bore area of the pulley.

Be careful as when it comes, it will be with a bang.

 

[Waterant]

Good old HF. I'm in Canada now and will not be in US any time soon. I'll see if Princess auto has anything on sale. Usually, the cost for tools is at least double here (converted to US$)

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Princess has both on sale now.

 

[Nick F]

As long as you are sure that there is nothing other than the taper that is holding the crank pulley onto the crankshaft the following should work.

Install your 2 bolt puller onto the pulley and tighten it up as tight as you dare. A circular plate with multiple bolts will not work as you need room to get heat in there.

Using an Oxy/Acet torch with a heating tip (better yet a RoseBud as they are smaller in diameter) installed, from the front heat the pulley next to the crankshaft and if possible heat the pulley between the back face of the pulley and the block. You never know which area of the taper is really locked. The trick is to heat the bore area of the pulley quickly with little heat getting to the crank. No need to get it red hot as that will just make the pulley soft.

Just continue with even quick heat to all of the bore area of the pulley.

Be careful as when it comes, it will be with a bang.

+1

 

[DDW]

Another tip, maybe you've already tried: tighten up the center bolt on the most robust puller you have. Then whack that center bolt really hard with a big hammer. Something like what when it comes off, will come off with a bang.

 

[porman]

I tried removing the pulley with the engine in place to fix a very minor leak at the pulley seal. No way was it coming off. I'm happy with an oil pad under the pulley. I wish you luck.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. DDW. Your post #43. While your technique is usually acceptable and the most efficacious, in this case, my concern is that any hard whacks you apply to the end of the crank will be transferred all along the crank and might possibly affect the bearings, races or journals (my post #30).


Mr. W:


https://www.princessauto.com/en/1-2-in-electric-impact-wrench/product/PA0008988404


and...


https://www.princessauto.com/en/38-...hallow-impact-socket-set/product/PA0008599599


Personally I much prefer Princess as their return policy is far superior to HF.

 

[Waterant]

Greetings,
Princess has both on sale now.

Thanks. I found it and placed an order tonight. just got a message that it's ready for pickup. Wish me luck

tighten up the center bolt on the most robust puller you have. Then whack that center bolt really hard with a big hammer. Something like what when it comes off, will come off with a bang.

Tried that already with a 3LB hummer, even deformed the socket tip of the pulley screw so it does not accept the socket now without grinding. after reading the comments here about possible damage to other components, I wish i did not do that but too late

 

[Gdavid]

Thanks. I found it and placed an order tonight. just got a message that it's ready for pickup. Wish me luck



Tried that already with a 3LB hummer, even deformed the socket tip of the pulley screw so it does not accept the socket now without grinding. after reading the comments here about possible damage to other components, I wish i did not do that but too late

As far as you are tearing into this, I would imagine your are going to put new main and rod bearings in. I would plan on pulling the crank and having it inspected and polished by a good machine shop, you will have completed the hard work of disassembly, the parts can't be that much. (still not great to beat on a crank).

 

[Waterant]

For those marine Yanmars everything is expensive. The front pulley which I already butchered by the 3-jaw pulley remover I tried first is $400 USD

it takes so much time to take apart, cost of parts seems irrelevant. I'll try JB weld on the piece I broken off as it's not structural but cutting the pulley with a grinder and getting a new one would cost me less in $ and time if I started with it instead of buying a whole bunch of funny tools just to take that one pulley.

By the way, for anyone suffering from the cost of parts for Yanmars, I did find some possible matching parts from an industrial Yanmars costing 5x- 10x less but Yanmar is closely guarding the reference between those parts. The only way seems to buy them and match.

 

[Bmarler]

On stuff that’s stuck so hard like that, pullers that use a threaded pusher will usually fail. You’ll mushroom the tip, or pull out the threads.
I make up a heavy plate or weld up a fixture that will fit on my porta power ram. Outside jaws won’t do it, you’ll just break the balancer. You have to bolt to the threaded holes, that’s what they’re for.
To get an idea what I’m talking about, look up the mechanics mate. It’s a fancy version. You can fab something a bit more crude that won’t break the bank.
A porta power has a 10000 psi pump, lots more power than a hydraulic jack. If you can’t find one for sale at a decent price you may be able to rent one.
For penetrating fluid, the best I’ve ever found was a 50/50 mix of atf and acetone.
Resist the urge to cut it off. The risk of damage to the crank is very high.

Edit, I see you already tried the porta power. Dang…
Hang in there, it’ll come.

 

[Bmarler]

One more thought regarding heat. There are small induction heating units for bearing removal that might work for this. The whole trick is heating near the center of the balancer but not on the crank. It takes quite a while to drive in enough heat to expand a cast piece like that with a torch, induction is very fast.

 

[Waterant]

One more thought regarding heat. There are small induction heating units for bearing removal that might work for this. ...

What I could find is those units have to be passed inside the bearing and there is no way to do that on a pulley.

I tried more heat and 1/2" impact gun today. Bent 2 steel pulley removal plates and shaved the thread on the large screw. Pulley did not budge.

waiting on oxi torch and a friend is going to make a larger plate to use a larger central screw with fine thread.
But I'm moving the grinder closer and closer...

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. W. I suggest again, bolt the "pulley removal plates" hard to the pulley. You've too much space between "plate" and pulley thus allowing the "plate" to bend. In pic #2 those bolts with the washers are much too long.
Torque down the central large screw and leave it tight while heating. Then torque down the central large screw some more without loosening. Heat, torque, heat torque. You might also try tapping around the perimeter of the pulley while it's under pressure. Somethings got to give.
You might also try quenching the pulley while hot and under pressure with cold water.
I think Acme threads would be a LOT stronger than fine threads for the new central screw.

Acme type^

 

[SoWhat]

RTF - I might go Heat, torque, soak with penetrant, heat, torque, soak with penetrant.

At some point I would get out the grinder and cold chisels. Price a new crank first just in case. Mains most likely deformed by now with all the banging.

 

[Waterant]

Price a new crank first just in case. Mains most likely deformed by now with all the banging.

I'm planning to replace the main bearings but do you think I damaged the crankshaft?
I did hit the removal screw a few times with a hammer when I was young and innocent a few days ago before that pulley made me loose all the hope about the future. I do not think I hit hard enough to damage the shaft at that time. You guys told me to take it easy with a hammer so it was unused since.
And all the pushing is going between the shaft and the pulley so the shaft itself do not get much stress.
Do you still think the shaft can be damaged by all the heat and pushing?

 

[Waterant]

Greetings,
Mr. W. I suggest again, bolt the "pulley removal plates" hard to the pulley. You've too much space between "plate" and pulley thus allowing the "plate" to bend. In pic #2 those bolts with the washers are much too long.
Torque down the central large screw and leave it tight while heating. Then torque down the central large screw some more without loosening. Heat, torque, heat torque. You might also try tapping around the perimeter of the pulley while it's under pressure. Somethings got to give.
You might also try quenching the pulley while hot and under pressure with cold water.
I think Acme threads would be a LOT stronger than fine threads for the new central screw.

Acme type^

Thanks. I tried cold water shock a few times after heating it to 300C but it looks like map and propane heat it too slow and shaft is getting hot as well. After every heat session I add a lot of penetration oil as well.

Good idea about using smaller bots. Not sure if it will help much because the plates are getting bent at the limit of the torque I can put with a gun or a wrench and a breaker bar.

I think the bigger screw I have has fine tapered thread or whatever it's called, not the normal thread, but I can try it only after the new plate is ready.

My next bet is on the oxy torch heating the pulley locally around the shaft. I just hope I will not weld it completely together as I never used such torch before. YouTube time!

 

[luna]

It is somewhat disappointing that with all of the Yanmar dealer/repair shops out there, that nobody from that fraternity has chimed in with the key to this pulley removal. Let's not give up hope just yet. Move the grinders to the other room.

In the meantime and thinking outside of the box, in the first of your most recent pictures, behind the pulley there appears to be some kind of fluted element with multiple, say 1/2"(12mm, it is after all a Yanmar) holes in it. Does that rotate with the pulley?

If so, is it such that this pulley is threaded on? The holes could be used (with a 1/2" steel rod) to tighten up the pulley. It could also be the case that this fluted element serves as a jam nut and is separately threaded on to the crankshaft. This makes some sense as it would allow for some minor adjustment of pulley location to facilitate belt alignment. What other purpose is there for this fluted element?

What does the overhaul and parts manuals say?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. l. EXCELLENT observation. Is there anything in any manual/parts diagram that would suggest anything other than a straight or tapered shaft????

 

[Waterant]

i could not find any photos of the pulley but all diagrams show just a tapered end and pulley Yanmar part ID 119595-21651

 

[luna]

Is it safe to say both the bolt (#17) and importantly the retainer (#19) have been removed from the bore of the pulley?

If so, the pulley should fall off, as I see no taper.

 

[Waterant]

In the meantime and thinking outside of the box, in the first of your most recent pictures, behind the pulley there appears to be some kind of fluted element with multiple, say 1/2"(12mm, it is after all a Yanmar) holes in it. Does that rotate with the pulley?

yes it seems to be the pulley body, there is nothing on the diagram between the pulley and the bearing.

If so, is it such that this pulley is threaded on? The holes could be used (with a 1/2" steel rod) to tighten up the pulley. It could also be the case that this fluted element serves as a jam nut and is separately threaded on to the crankshaft. This makes some sense as it would allow for some minor adjustment of pulley location to facilitate belt alignment. What other purpose is there for this fluted element?

i was wondering what those holes are for but they do not go deep to the shaft and look like done just for some weight saving. i checked each if there is some set screw or pin inside. nothing like that.

i wonder if i put a bolt in one and tap it with a hammer...