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Old 05-24-2019, 02:48 PM   #21
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I own a hybrid car, all electric snow blower, lawn mower, leaf blower, weed whacker; I am also a train buff and am used to electric engines in all those trains - most don't know that those engines hauling long consists are electric but they are. We even have a guy here who plans to run a commercial aircraft from Vancouver Island to Vancouver using all electric.

You will spend as much time waiting for your batteries to charge as you will cruising. And are you always going to find a place where you can fill up in the summer when other boats are vying for guest slips. An electric motor run my a generator full time, yes - that's what the large commercial freight engines use.


But for a boat your size, nope! Not all electric. I agree with the above when it comes to power, range, and enough energy to get you back in if you get out into a blow. Or enough range to go anywhere without having to "fill up" again. Its kind of like the early all electric cars where you could only go something like 30 miles; they didn't sell well. You get full points for thinking outside the box, but sometimes there are good reasons for people living inside the box.

If you go to a single engine which you might want to seriously consider due to the cost of replacing two engines, I'd definitely add a bow thruster.
I hear you
However I know of fully electric cruise ships that are in development.
The battery is gigantic.

Big battery + small generator + solar array just might work.
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Old 05-24-2019, 02:59 PM   #22
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Greetings,
Mr. SL. Have you ever considered a fuel cell? https://blog.ballard.com/fuel-cells-marine-vessels
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Old 05-24-2019, 03:09 PM   #23
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PMM did an article on a converted Grand Banks, I think, from diesel to hybrid, generator driving 2 electric motors. Advantages were more room in engine room and the torque in electric motors comes on at extremely low RPMs. It was going to be the big new thing, however it apparently went without a trace. Never really heard about it again. You might look the article up and read it.
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:19 PM   #24
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PMM did an article on a converted Grand Banks, I think, from diesel to hybrid, generator driving 2 electric motors. Advantages were more room in engine room and the torque in electric motors comes on at extremely low RPMs. It was going to be the big new thing, however it apparently went without a trace. Never really heard about it again. You might look the article up and read it.
So goes the frontier ...
many say it was the frontier that made America great.
All this electric stuff from batteries is pop energy. It’s hard to say how long it will remain popular but it will melt down eventually. I was up to —- in UL aviation in the 80’s and it definitely was a pop fad. When was the last time you saw an UL? I’m an old man that like old things ... but only certain things. Old furniture from the 50’s .. NO. Cars from the 50’s .. big yes. Ect ect. But I like engines so I almost need to dislike solar and motors. Baugh humbug basically. But like I said to my friend 10 yrs ago “Joe it’s (his Prius) not cost effective”. It’s a Oooo Oooo I’m all electric and as green as I can get. But the electrons for the electric car come’s from coal.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:10 PM   #25
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So you have a motor that produces torque starting at low rpm. Doesn't that mean that you need an adjustable pitch prop to take advantage of that torque?
Wasn't there an article in a recent Soundings about an electric charter cat? Sounded really nice until you realized that it had a massive Li-ion battery bank and a big generator that ran most of the time to try and keep up. All very sophisticated which equals expensive.
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Old 05-24-2019, 09:30 PM   #26
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Having a range of 50mi and a recharge time of 5 days sounds to me like you can drive it 10mi per day forever, or 20mi every other day, etc. 20mi on the water is pretty far around these parts. So, it depends on how far you want to cruise. Many people are content to bob around a little and go home every time.

And for those suggesting one motor, well, since he’s using Prius parts designed to move a 3000lb car, and instead use them to move a 12t boat, I think having two is going to be a lot better than one.

I love the idea, and it’s great to have free fuel from the sun. If you can run a cord to the house then you’re going to get paid to own that boat in no time.

As for rudders, yes you do need them in my opinion. Because of wind, there will be times you want extra authority on the turning radius of the boat. As someone mentioned, without them you will likely be forced to run reverse on one motor more often than you’re thinking, negating any savings on drag. Also, I doubt the drag of rudders is a large portion of the total drag on such a ship. But, I’m no engineer.
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Old 05-24-2019, 09:35 PM   #27
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So goes the frontier ...
many say it was the frontier that made America great.
All this electric stuff from batteries is pop energy. It’s hard to say how long it will remain popular but it will melt down eventually. I was up to —- in UL aviation in the 80’s and it definitely was a pop fad. When was the last time you saw an UL? I’m an old man that like old things ... but only certain things. Old furniture from the 50’s .. NO. Cars from the 50’s .. big yes. Ect ect. But I like engines so I almost need to dislike solar and motors. Baugh humbug basically. But like I said to my friend 10 yrs ago “Joe it’s (his Prius) not cost effective”. It’s a Oooo Oooo I’m all electric and as green as I can get. But the electrons for the electric car come’s from coal.
Are you saying that electric versions of ICE vehicles is a fad? I don’t think so, there will be more and more electrics, less and less ICE, and eventually you will not see any gassers outside the classic car museum.
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:05 PM   #28
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:22 AM   #29
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A local guy built about a 28' boat with a flat top pilothouse/cabin top that was covered about 80% of the boat's footprint with PV panels. Electric motor inboard. He cruised around here for a few years. Definitely was slow, but it did work. I don't think there was a generator on board for when batteries went flat.

Saw the same boat a few years ago, it now has a small outboard four stroke on it.

The solar energy collected is simply too small compared to what is needed to move the boat a reasonable distance. 10nm per day, sure, that is do-able. But that is not very far.

You can augment it with a diesel gennie, but with that running the burn rate per mile is probably on par with a straight shaft propulsion diesel. And then add in the cost for motors, batts, PV panels, controllers and cabling, and you are way upside-down.

With straight diesel propulsion, you can go 10nm for under ten bucks.

Neat technology is available. Lots of cool ways to mix things like motors, PV, batts, gennies, controllers, etc. I love messing with the stuff too. But using rough analysis, the numbers still don't really work except in limited duty cycles.

And do keep the rudders. Yes, they really do add drag. But in any sort of seas you really need them. Trust me on that!!
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:45 AM   #30
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I think many are missing the point (or maybe I am?). Star-Lord has a project that he WANTS TO DO. He thinks he can make it work but the point is a project he wants to attempt, not what is going to be the most practical propulsion system. His money, his choice.

Maybe TF can offer good suggestions on ways that he can make his idea work, or be less impractical etc.... Suggestions such as “you may want to rethink getting rid fo the rudders” are super helpful. Suggesting that it is just a non-workable silly idea isn’t helpful.
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:52 AM   #31
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Dave,
“he thinks he can make it work”
What does that mean “work”?

As I see it it dosn’t work if it’s not better than a diesel.
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:57 AM   #32
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Dave,
“he thinks he can make it work”
What does that mean “work”?

As I see it it dosn’t work if it’s not better than a diesel.
It does not matter how you see it, it’s not your boat. And your criteria for success is also meaningless: it ain’t your boat.
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:03 AM   #33
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:20 AM   #34
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Dave,
“he thinks he can make it work”
What does that mean “work”?

As I see it it dosn’t work if it’s not better than a diesel.
Eric,
It "works" if we get enjoyment and satisfaction out of a project.

There are plenty of people that don't see the sense of owning and maintaining a trawler style diesel boat. You can drive down the coast much quicker and cheaper. You can fly to the Bahamas or Alaska. Why spend the time and money on an old slow boat?

Because we enjoy it.
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:29 PM   #35
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Dave,
“he thinks he can make it work”
What does that mean “work”?

As I see it it dosn’t work if it’s not better than a diesel.

I understand, but the issue is what “better” means. I would suggest that the “better” boat is one that both meets the needs of the owner and provides maximum enjoyment for that owner. As our needs and desires are different, I would confidently say that my boat is “better” than yours, for me. Your boat is “better” than mine, for you.

So when I say that he thinks he can “make it work”, I mean that as giving him a boat that serves his needs and gives him enjoyment.
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:09 PM   #36
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Go for it, Star-Lord.

Before re-powering my small power cat last year, I checked around for options with vendors such as Elco. Bottom line was that if one can wait another two years, battery technology will break through in critical dimensions such as capacity, weight and cost.

Looking forward to learning more from this thread.
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:19 PM   #37
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To all that didn’t like my comment above.

Most changes have difficulty getting launched and becoming everyday reality. A friend of mine (the same guy w the Prius that I mentioned above) said when I mentioned that the Prius wasn’t cost effective said “Eric, sombody’s got to lead the way”. There’s more than an ounce of truth in that but what bothers me about it is a lot of this is just a fad and I despise fads. Of course some fads become the way of life later on and electric vehicles are almost certainly going to be that. So by your lead I’ll lighten up. But I’ll walk alongside the bandwagon rather than whoop and holler and climb aboard.


And most of you know I'm a project guy that has a long string of projects that didn't measure up to the products they were meant to surpass. But I had lots of fun and adventure doing them.

!. My prototype boat Easy Rider. Named before the movie. The idea was to be a soft riding hull that was easily driven at moderate speeds of 15 knots or so. The easily driven part was mostly achieved by very light construction. Powered by a 55hp 3 cyl Johnson usually at 11-12 knots. Was very pitch stable and soft riding but wouldn't carry much weight.

2. A scratch and think dwg showing a blunt nosed version of the boat built.

3. The current version of my highly modified Manson Supreme.
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Old 05-25-2019, 03:20 PM   #38
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I've spent a quarter mil $ prototyping and patenting marine propulsion ideas, which sadly did not turn into commercial success.

My post above was not the proverbial "wet blanket" kind of statement, just a bit of cold hard truth type of engr analysis.

Just hoping he does not have rose colored glasses on. Been there, done that.

And yes, 90% of this boat stuff absolutely flunks any sort of critical analysis.

But we do it anyway because it is fun.
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Old 05-25-2019, 03:27 PM   #39
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Didnt we have someone on here in the last 5 years that was attempting to do the same thing??..
HOLLYWOOD


Edit..
There is a racing sailboat here in P.T. that was converted to all electric drive, for racing in the bay it works great.. has maybe a 10/15 mile range, is a double ended lightweight sled.. rarely gets beat racing.
When they want to go anywhere they run a Honda generator on deck and can motor around 4 kts.
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Old 05-25-2019, 03:50 PM   #40
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Electric cars are not a fad. Many countries have said that they will ban the sale of gas and diesel cars in 20 years.

Large scale solar production is able to produce electricity at or below the cost of oil and coal power plants.

One of the constraints to electric cars and commercial solar plants is battery technology. Once that improves , and it will, Solar power will start gaining more momentum, and electric cars will outnumber gas ones
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