Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-23-2018, 05:03 AM   #21
Guru
 
siestakey's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota,FL/Thomasville,GA
Vessel Name: Steppin Stone IV
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Kelly Trawler 46
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaston View Post
TF where else can one get 100 correct answers to the one simple question
That is what I love about this place
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Alan
Skype roatan63
siestakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 05:25 AM   #22
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,945
"I will say that if I don’t use my gas boat in the winter I will still run it for a few minutes every 4-6 weeks during that time. Thinking I’m keeping it heathy doing that, so if winterizing with fresh oil is a standard procedure,"

Cold starts all winter is not uncommon, it is not usually a recommended procedure.

The engine never gets warm enough (gas or diesel) to burn off combustion blowby.

Changing the oil in spring is a good idea with this procedure to get rid of the combustion by products .

With most oils the additives are 15% to 20% of the oil , and one of the more important is the oils detergent.

The detergent can lift and capture the "fines" that pass thru most oil filters (bypass filters may be an exception) but in order to work the oil must be HOT and best is when it circulates for hours to lift off the fines that stick to most interior surfaces.

Its never fun to change oil after a long days run , as the Hell Hole will live up to its name , but there is no extra expense and your engine will Love you for the work.

We always hear about engines with multiple tens of thousands of hours between overhauls.
In many cases I believe it is because the oil is changed on the fly, a lever is thrown and the tank of fresh oil is fed and the tank of used oil is cut off.

This happily captures the gropsh in the old oil, fines, acid from combustion and the rest.

The best folks with 5Q or 10Gal of oil in an engine can do is good, frequent oil changes.
__________________

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 07:00 AM   #23
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,257
I have two kinds of oil filers, the standard one and a 2 micron bypass filter.
So as the engine runs, all oil is filtered by the standard full flow filter continuously to maybe 15 microns, I used a Pure One typically, and the other filter is a bleed stream bypass, so a small stream of oil goes slowly through getting cleaned to 2 microns. The output simply dumps back into the oil pan. I know it is 2 microns as I asked Fram who makes it and that is what they said. It uses stacked plates and is pushed into a steel housing

https://www.ruralking.com/fram-by-pa...hoCNSQQAvD_BwE


It is an older design and was used on industrial and farm and marine etc... from way back in the 50's till today. Although likely today, they save money by NOT installing an extra bypass filter in addition to the full flow filters. IMO, having both is best, it does help with getting 'fines' out of oil, as it is those 'fines' which grind away metal as your main filter can not catch those abrasive 'fines'.

Another thing about oil filters, all full flow filter designs have an internal bypass, either in the filter itself, or the housing it screws onto, so that when oil is thick and cold, it can flow to the engine, otherwise the full flow filter could not flow enough oil when it is real cold. The other thing is as your full flow filter steadily clogs up, it filters more efficiently, but it can not handle the flow so well, so the internal bypass may open if it sufficiently clogged up allowing unfiltered oil to flow to the engine. That is probably why if you don't change your oil and filter, those engines more likely to grenade on you., cause the oil is dirty and the filter can not do its job. If your oil is ok, just change the oil filters, otherwise your just throwing away money changing out good oil, of course the oil companies and the oil sellers like that..
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 08:53 AM   #24
Guru
 
diver dave's Avatar
 
City: Palm Coast, FL
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by siestakey View Post
That is what I love about this place
Yes, we like to cover all possibilities here, so it is impossible to know what to do.

In all seriousness, get the oil analyzed; you will have evidence to make an informed opinion, know what to do next time, and get that info on TF.
diver dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 10:26 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
TowLou's Avatar
 
City: Flanders, NJ
Vessel Name: Bassey
Vessel Model: 17' Bass
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 221
Between science and old habits I'd rather change. If a few years has passed. A lot cheaper then a motor blown and less time to wait to analyze the oil. My pennies worth.
TowLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 10:41 AM   #26
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,787
Thanks, all.

I will change the oil before we start. I’ve had the oil analyzed twice already—once after sea trials (when I’m sure we were looking at new oil) and again after we ran from Florida to the Chesapeake. No issues. But after sitting up this long with little use, I’ll take the more conservative route and change/analyze.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 02:15 PM   #27
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,872
If the oil analysis is going to cost $50(25/engine), and new oil would cost $100......its like getting an oil change at half price. Its like the Mastercard commercials....."Oil change = $50, peace of mind = Priceless.

its hard to quantify, but there is a financial value to reducing the items on your list of things to worry about.
Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 05:26 AM   #28
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,945
Oil is best analyzed when being changed after a long period of use.


It will then contain the iron, fuel, and the rest of the items being looked at.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2018, 08:47 PM   #29
Veteran Member
 
Daveo's Avatar
 
City: Boston, MA
Vessel Name: Navigator
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 46
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 75
I’ve recently been told, while at an engine manufacturers training course, that the typical New England temperature changes over the winter will destroy the additive package in new oil installed when boats are hauled for the winter necessitating a change upon launch in the spring even though the oil was never used. This due solely to condensation inside the motor as the temperature fluctuates. These people are only concerned with maximizing engine longevity and maintaining their reputation, they are not selling oil or oil changes.
Daveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2018, 08:51 PM   #30
Guru
 
Lou_tribal's Avatar
 
City: Quebec
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveo View Post
I’ve recently been told, while at an engine manufacturers training course, that the typical New England temperature changes over the winter will destroy the additive package in new oil installed when boats are hauled for the winter necessitating a change upon launch in the spring even though the oil was never used. This due solely to condensation inside the motor as the temperature fluctuates. These people are only concerned with maximizing engine longevity and maintaining their reputation, they are not selling oil or oil changes.
Hum if true I would suspect more engine failure in boats, and cars, up here than any other country

L
Lou_tribal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2018, 09:12 PM   #31
Guru
 
City: Sydney
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveo View Post
I’ve recently been told, while at an engine manufacturers training course, that the typical New England temperature changes over the winter will destroy the additive package in new oil installed when boats are hauled for the winter necessitating a change upon launch in the spring even though the oil was never used. This due solely to condensation inside the motor as the temperature fluctuates. These people are only concerned with maximizing engine longevity and maintaining their reputation, they are not selling oil or oil changes.







ok
gaston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2018, 10:29 PM   #32
Guru
 
City: Hampton, va
Vessel Name: Didi Mau
Vessel Model: 2003 Ocean Alexander 456
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,041
Sounds fishy to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveo View Post
I’ve recently been told, while at an engine manufacturers training course, that the typical New England temperature changes over the winter will destroy the additive package in new oil installed when boats are hauled for the winter necessitating a change upon launch in the spring even though the oil was never used. This due solely to condensation inside the motor as the temperature fluctuates. These people are only concerned with maximizing engine longevity and maintaining their reputation, they are not selling oil or oil changes.
So let me get this straight. A New England fishing boat that sits for a week over Christmas would have to change oil because the additives would be destroyed?


Hmmm. The us srmy, which owns tens of thousands of Diesel engines changes oil when oil testing specifies. Many of these vehicles sit for weeks at a time and the oil may be changed once in five years.

If you are getting that much condensation in your engine you have other problems. This ranks up there with keep fuel topped off to reduce water in the fuel.

Gordon, who has never had a problem with water in fuel or oil.
Gordon J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2018, 10:33 PM   #33
Guru
 
City: Sydney
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,646
Would a few liters of gun oil be the answer ?
gaston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2018, 12:40 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
av8r's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes
Vessel Name: Selah
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 40
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveo View Post
I’ve recently been told, while at an engine manufacturers training course, that the typical New England temperature changes over the winter will destroy the additive package in new oil installed when boats are hauled for the winter necessitating a change upon launch in the spring even though the oil was never used. This due solely to condensation inside the motor as the temperature fluctuates. These people are only concerned with maximizing engine longevity and maintaining their reputation, they are not selling oil or oil changes.
If that’s the case, drain the oil in the fall, put it in a nice warm garage for the winter, and put it back in the spring (after draining out all that condensation, of course.)
av8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2018, 05:39 AM   #35
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_tribal View Post
Hum if true I would suspect more engine failure in boats, and cars, up here than any other country

L
Been doing it that way for 30 yrs and so far no engine problems. Think I'll stick to my old habits.

That strikes me as a pretty far fetched claim when any SMALL amounts of water will remain separated from the oil with engine sitting idle.

I'd like to see some valid test data to substantiate a claim like that before I acted on it.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2018, 05:40 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
Civilitas's Avatar
 
City: PNW/Seattle-ish
Vessel Name: M/V Peter Iredale ;)
Vessel Model: rusting hulk
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 128
That claim, despite the authority supposedly behind it, is just nonsense.

On one hand, it just doesn't pass the smell test of simple physical reasoning. A non-running engine isn't going to generate the heat that is required to generate condensation - it will have only a very trivial amount in it from the last condesnation.

Here's some real data. 25 year old Deere, laid up on the Great Lakes over winter, year-old oil, heavily used (500hrs, albeit much make-up oil in the interval). Just fine come spring.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...OA#Post4433182
Civilitas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2018, 06:43 PM   #37
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 23,675
Be careful, like condensation in partially full or almost empty tanks.....it depends a lot in where you are climate wise.

I have seen engines dripping in sweat after a cold snap or just cold engine rooms from the water, and a warm, moist front passes through. If you don't have your exhaust and intake sealed up tight, the water could add up.

Now the question is.....how much does it take to deteriorate the oil?
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 05:41 AM   #38
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,945
"If you don't have your exhaust and intake sealed up tight, the water could add up."


Sealing the engine is usually part of the "out of service" tasks in most engine manuals.( Da Book. )


Its fast ,& cheap so why not?
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 06:20 AM   #39
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,257
Engines oil crankcases are well sealed from the atmosphere, internal condensation inside the block? LOL. All internal surfaces are heavily coated with a film of oil and also oil varnishes.
A cylinder wall can rust but changing oil won't help that.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 07:53 AM   #40
Guru
 
Cigatoo's Avatar
 
City: Narragansett Bay
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,209
You would think nothing of parking your car all winter in New England without changing the oil before and / or after. What’s different? One reason for getting any engine up to operating temp is to boil off moisture internally and externally. Unless someone or something is pouring water into your crankcase you are fine.
__________________

Cigatoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×