Extended Anchoring Out

[psneeld]

It's not exactly the awesome friendly environment it used to be - at least that's what I understand from those who have left there in the last six months.

I hate to say that because I loved the place and consider Tom a friend - but that is the word from those I know.

It would suck if it's true because the marina itself is awesome - beautiful location,.easy access to grocery and hardware stores, convenient to the city - and the farmers market is one of the best within a couple hundred coastal miles.

Needless to say, I hope my friends were overreacting...

Is Tom also the dockmaster? Do you know how long he has been there?

Probably around 8 years ago, I had a run in with the dockmaster and vowed to never go back.

 

[mvweebles]

Just a heads up. A lot of it is in how the question is asked and the ability to read between the lines. Several years ago I was in a similar position and getting similar results. Most marinas can't advertise that they are willing to accept liveaboards but don't actually mind if you are a responsible boater. I talked to one and when I asked the dreaded liveaboard question the lady replied that "No, we do not allow living aboard....however, I cannot legally tell you how much time you can or cannot spend on your boat...." To which I replied gotcha, and thanks. I then spent two and a half happy years in that marina.

Being a sneak-aboard has become increasingly difficult. Unlike your experience, every marina I've spent extended time at (including living aboard) had a definition of liveaboard (3 nights in a week, 10 nights in a month, etc). The degree to which that was enforced could be discretionary - I lived at the marina at Naval Station Treasure Island (SF Bay) for almost 5 years which did not allow liveaboards (though the dock master lived aboard). I was quiet, helpful, and used my boat a lot so the dock master liked having me around. He even alerted me when to be scarce when the Navy planned an inspection. But those days are long gone. Too bad - my experience in liveaboard marinas is mixed. Some are skewed towards cruisers and are interesting. Others cheap housing a bit too "Peyton Place" for my tastes.

California, especially the Bay Area, has regulatory limits on percentage of liveaboards in a marina. My sense is it's closely monitored. Guessing many places are closely monitored these days which is easier to do with electronic keys that are logged and monitored.

If the number of posts asking about liveaboard slips on platforms like TF and CF is an indicator, trying to slip through the cracks at a marina is difficult. Dock masters have seen it all and usually have a nip-it-in-the-bud mentality.

Peter

 

[slowgoesit]

Actually defining abandoned isn't all that hard from what I think many states are moving to.

If a vessel is not currently registered and the last know person to register it cannot be contacted, it is essentially abandoned. If someone can't be found aboard or with reasonable questioning around the docks/marinas/properties, etc to claim the boat then a court can declare it "abandoned/derelict".

If an owner can be contacted, the dialog will determine what the next step(s) will be.

The other method of declaring a boat as "abandoned" is to have Law Enforcement placard the boat with a notice that states that the vessel owner has xx number of days to contact Law Enforcement declaring ownership of the vessel, bring registration up to date, etc, or the vessel will be impounded and disposed of. Port Orchard, WA was bringing in 2 - 3 placarded boats a month, putting them on the public dock for an additional 30 days or so, then disposing of them. All at tax payers expense. The typical cost for a boat in the 20 - 50' range was $8k to &12k, unless asbestos was found on the boat.

 

[CaptTom]

I agree there are ways to define derelict or abandoned. And there should be some enforcement there. But the problem goes way beyond those.

Anchorages are for boats engaged in navigation. If you don't move from one spot, you're not navigating. You're monopolizing what should be a public resource; denying its use to other citizens who have an equal right to use it.

A time limit would address this issue, as well as abandoned or derelict boats. If it's there too long, the owner has to move it. No owner found, it can be impounded.

 

[psneeld]

I agree there are ways to define derelict or abandoned. And there should be some enforcement there. But the problem goes way beyond those.

Anchorages are for boats engaged in navigation. If you don't move from one spot, you're not navigating. You're monopolizing what should be a public resource; denying its use to other citizens who have an equal right to use it.

A time limit would address this issue, as well as abandoned or derelict boats. If it's there too long, the owner has to move it. No owner found, it can be impounded.

Same problem is occuring in the RV world.

The US isn't really over crowded...just too many popular spots. Same with some anchorages and RV spots.

 

[DBG8492]

Is Tom also the dockmaster? Do you know how long he has been there?

Probably around 8 years ago, I had a run in with the dockmaster and vowed to never go back.

Tom is the owner - Aaron is the dockmaster. IIRC, Tom has owned it for over 10 years or so and Aaron has been the dockmaster for at least 6 of those.

Both of them are good guys. Aaron is a liveaboard and I rode out Ian there with him and a bunch of other folks. He's pretty soft spoken and doesn't have much of a temper.

Tom does have a bit of a temper however and that can be an issue. I never had any run ins with him, but I know some who did - and some of their dockside interactions were legendary.

The way I understand it, as of several months ago, there are no more liveaboards allowed there at all for any reason. But I do not know the specifics so I can't speak to whatever happened to drive that decision. I am guessing they put a strict time limit on dockage to prevent people from just staying there as "long term transients."

I do plan to stop by next time I pass through and maybe I will get the whole story then.

 

[Mako]

Wonder if any of you have had experience with Kennedy Marina in Titusville FL. The dock master was so corrupt.

Had a rule that you couldn’t even spend one night on your boat otherwise you’d be labeled a live aboard, then have to pay the greater fees. Then I heard from one of the residents that he would lock up the marina gates during rocket launches and charge boat owners $20 just to get to their own boat.

Anyway I cancelled my reservation there. A situation like that was only going to go downhill.

 

[psneeld]

Wonder if any of you have had experience with Kennedy Marina in Titusville FL. The dock master was so corrupt.

Had a rule that you couldn’t even spend one night on your boat otherwise you’d be labeled a live aboard, then have to pay the greater fees. Then I heard from one of the residents that he would lock up the marina gates during rocket launches and charge boat owners $20 just to get to their own boat.

Anyway I cancelled my reservation there. A situation like that was only going to go downhill.

Happy my only stop there was nearly20 years ago and very pleasant on night. At least back then there were a lot of people overnighting on their boats, all seemed happy and never breathed a word about the dockmaster.

But things change quick sometimes. In the 12 years at my old home marina, I went through 4 dockmasters. 1 was great, 2 were good and one almost got thrown in the bay by 3 little old ladies for being nasty. He also almost burned down a dock full of boats when a boat blew up and I had to beg him to toss me the line he was holding. That was so I could tow the boat out of the marina. He finally tossed it short and almost fouled my prop in heavy current... I got the boat out of the marina just in time because that line burned through at the end of the docks and drifted onto a sandbar well clear of the marina.

I don't get the marine industry sometimes.... but I guess it's no different than many industries. That bad dockmaster was fired 4 times in 10 or so years I heard and wound up at a 5th.... one of the big expensive ones as the ship's store manages and also coordinates at least one big fishing tournament.

 

[REO]

Twenty years ago we lived at the Loews resort marina on Coronado Island. Room service to the boats, gated garage parking, they reduced our rate by $100 in December if we decorated for Christmas. Spendy, but worth every penny.
We own a live-aboard slip in Naples, Florida that we are considering selling. We purchased it about six years ago for $60,000. The dock master tells us that it is worth about $100k today. YIKES!

 

[DBG8492]

We own a live-aboard slip in Naples, Florida that we are considering selling. We purchased it about six years ago for $60,000. The dock master tells us that it is worth about $100k today. YIKES!

This has always confused me.

When you "own" a slip, what do you actually own?

Is there a deed? Do you own that specific space on the water? Do you own the dock itself? Half the area of the dock between you and the next slips? And if you own any of the dock, are you responsible for it?

If something were to happen to the marina or even just your dock, what obligation does the marina have? Do you have insurance on it or is that shared between you and the marina?

And I'm not being smart - I'm truly wondering.

 

[O C Diver]

This has always confused me.

When you "own" a slip, what do you actually own?

Is there a deed? Do you own that specific space on the water? Do you own the dock itself? Half the area of the dock between you and the next slips? And if you own any of the dock, are you responsible for it?

If something were to happen to the marina or even just your dock, what obligation does the marina have? Do you have insurance on it or is that shared between you and the marina?

And I'm not being smart - I'm truly wondering.

In my situation, I own the land under the water, have a deed, and get to pay property taxes to Lee County. Everything having to do with the marina including docks and pilings, is in a condo association. There are roughly 150 slips in the association.

Ted

 

[SteveK]

There is/was water lot ownership here, may be on long term lease from GOV.
In real estate there is ownership on Indian lands under a long term lease.

A car parking stall in parkade just sold for $195K Can$ in Whistler. So you can own anything that can be identified.

 

[Simi 60]

Same problem is occuring in the RV world.

The US isn't really over crowded...just too many popular spots. Same with some anchorages and RV spots.

People are....

Our favourite spots never have anyone in them.
But we had to find them for ourselves and keep them for ourselves
.

 

[Simi 60]

Liveaboards are often the ones using the facilities way more than everyone else, parking, other slip holder input, marina neighbor input, mail/package delivery, sheer amount of "stuff" even if kept on boat fulltime, etc...etc...

First time in a marina in 7 years
Into our 3rd week here

Have no car so parking a non issue
Have not used shore facilities
Haven't even plugged into shore power.
Only indication we are onboard is lights at night and washing hanging on the line once a week.

But am being charged $300/MTH on top for liveaboard fees listed as water and electricity.

The cost of doing business says I.

 

[SteveK]

First time in a marina in 7 years
Into our 3rd week here

Have no car so parking a non issue
Have not used shore facilities
Haven't even plugged into shore power.
Only indication we are onboard is lights at night and washing hanging on the line once a week.

But am being charged $300/MTH on top for liveaboard fees listed as water and electricity.

The cost of doing business says I.

Did you ask if they will pay you for water and electricity as you have more than needed?

 

[REO]

Slip in Naples is pretty much the same as O C Diver's. We own land under the water and pay taxes and condo fees. Closing when we bought was the same as buying a house. There was one peculiar thing. We had to have a police record check done to prove that we are not pedophiles. Seems that in Florida convicted peds. can not live in certain areas, like near a school, and the marina is in an area where they could live. Who knew.

 

[mvweebles]

In my situation, I own the land under the water, have a deed, and get to pay property taxes to Lee County. Everything having to do with the marina including docks and pilings, is in a condo association. There are roughly 150 slips in the association.

Ted

I own a slip on the ICW in St Pete Beach. Because it's on the ICW, land is leased from State of Florida on a perpetual lease, but the slip is indeed deeded and is included on my deed. The alternative arrangement is the condo association owns the slip and the owner has a perpetual right-to-use from the condo association. Since the slip is included on my deed, taxes are paid as part of the condo and not listed separately.

The marina at our 1950s era 26-unit condo has seven slips. I own two of the seven slips. Condo association is responsible for the main dock, I am responsible for everything that form my dock.

I bought the condo because it had a slip. 10 years ago, Florida prices were still recovering from the 2008 slump. I wanted a free slip for when I retired. I was lucky enough to purchase the slip next to mine and conjoined them for a 36-foot boat. What a hassle that was, but it is now being built.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

A couple years ago a fellow boater related that his marina currently is not attached to land. It seems the lease was not renewed but no one took it seriously as they always renew. Well this time they were not and the entire docks became a floating marina anchored elsewhere while they awaited somewhere to attach to the land. They were in negotiations.
This was in the Victoria area. Anyone have more info for an update.

 

[Don L]

There needs to be be new thread.