Install Isolation Transformer

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Newtrawlerowner

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
327
Location
USA
Vessel Name
PartnerShip II
Vessel Make
2003 Mainship 400
I have a 2003 Mainship with Zinc Savers. Doing some testing and found the mv draw is excessive with shore power on. Started this after using a zinc in about 4 months. Not sure how best to test Zinc Saver and research shows installing an isolation transformer is the best route anyway. I've been reviewing posts and Charles Iso is what most have but they are no longer selling marine equipment.

Here are my questions.
What brands currently available have people been using?
I have bow and stern dock power connectors. Could I connect both to 1 transformer or would I need 2?
Many more questions, but these will get me started.

Thanks in advance.
 
A rotary switch before the transformer will allow you to select which inlet you want to use, so only one transformer is needed.

If the Charles IT fits your needs, Defender.com still has some at great closeout pricing.

Ted
 
I have Charles units but Victron also makes very good equipment
 
I had excessive current leakage with my shorepower such that I was popping marina breakers that had upgraded their pedestals to the new 30mA requirement. I had an electrician diagnose it to be the boat which had all AC neutrals on the same buss bar. He isolated the AC neutrals associated with circuts that went through the inverter to one buss bar, and those neutrals with circuits that didn't onto another buss bar. This resolved my leakage problem, no longer popping breakers, and allowing me to enjoy my favorite beverage uninterrupted.


Now, if I could just get the wife to remember to not run the hair dryer and curling iron at the same time, I'd be able to really relax rather than always resetting breakers...
 
Like Ted said, Defender has some on closeout, including the Charles
Model #: 93-IXFMR12I-A, which is the same one I have in my 400 Mainship. It has been flawless, and has a switch to boost low power at marinas which is fairly common. That switch is Blue Seas PN 3608187.


Suspect our power requirements would be similar. 220v AC, Stove, Grill.... al electric.
 
16 years ago when rebuilding our boat and its entire electrical system, my electrical mentor recommended adding a 5kv Acme isolation transformer. While not Coast Guard(?) approved, he had installed many over the years on boats and was much cheaper than the only approved Charles transformer. It has performed flawlessly located behind a panel at the foot of the master berth.

Tator
 
I'm all in favor of isolation transformers, but think you should find and fix the electrical problems on your boat first, rather than using the isolation transformer to sweep them under the rug.


Also note that if you are suddenly going through zincs faster than expected, you have DC leakage of some sort. AC leakage won't impact zincs, only DC.


It seems you have two problems to unravel.
 
I'm all in favor of isolation transformers, but think you should find and fix the electrical problems on your boat first, rather than using the isolation transformer to sweep them under the rug.


Also note that if you are suddenly going through zincs faster than expected, you have DC leakage of some sort. AC leakage won't impact zincs, only DC.


It seems you have two problems to unravel.

+1 :thumb:
 
16 years ago when rebuilding our boat and its entire electrical system, my electrical mentor recommended adding a 5kv Acme isolation transformer. While not Coast Guard(?) approved, he had installed many over the years on boats and was much cheaper than the only approved Charles transformer. It has performed flawlessly located behind a panel at the foot of the master berth.

Tator

I've been scrutinizing an Acme transformer ,in the 3kW version, and haven't found any reason why it wouldn't work fine in our case. It's slated to be one of this seasons upgrades.
While I've completely rewired both the AC & DC service & have total confidence in the system being correct, I have to admit that each time we come into a marina & plug in, it's not without a little apprehension. It would really bum us out (well, bum my wife out but embarrass me) to not be able to have shore power due to some electrical gremlin not agreeing with a marinas updated GFCI power pedestal. We have yet to come across one (a GFI pedestal marina) in our travels & while we greatly prefer spending the evenings on the hook, after 2-4 days we're ready to plug into shore power (& water) for less rationed creature comforts.
 
+2 on find the leakage to ground first.

Bud
 
Acme transformers are top quality. So much so that Hubbbell bought them.


They now have marine-specific isolation transformers with separate grounds for primary and secondary. I've got two of them, one for each shore power cord.
 
I have a 2003 Mainship with Zinc Savers. Doing some testing and found the mv draw is excessive with shore power on. Started this after using a zinc in about 4 months. Not sure how best to test Zinc Saver and research shows installing an isolation transformer is the best route anyway. I've been reviewing posts and Charles Iso is what most have but they are no longer selling marine equipment.

Here are my questions.
What brands currently available have people been using?
I have bow and stern dock power connectors. Could I connect both to 1 transformer or would I need 2?
Many more questions, but these will get me started.

Thanks in advance.


I need to clarify that my galvanic isolator IS defective. It's 17 years old and after researching How To Test, it tests bad. Rather than replace it I'd rather install an isolation transformer. When I tested for stray voltage, everything is fine even when connected to shore power UNTIL I turn on the pedestal breaker. Even then I only get -.689kv. Again my research suggests that's still in range of good except as compared to the reading with power off. But the change in voltage from -965kv to -689kv would indicate an issue.
 
I'm all in favor of isolation transformers, but think you should find and fix the electrical problems on your boat first, rather than using the isolation transformer to sweep them under the rug.


Also note that if you are suddenly going through zincs faster than expected, you have DC leakage of some sort. AC leakage won't impact zincs, only DC.


It seems you have two problems to unravel.

+2 :thumb::thumb:

And if you "unravel" your current problems you may find an IT is not necessary.
 
Defender has some on closeout, including the Charles
Model #: 93-IXFMR12I-A, which is the same one I have in my 400 Mainship. It has been flawless, and has a switch to boost low power at marinas which is fairly common. That switch is Blue Seas PN 3608187.

Does this BlueSea switch make the Charles Isolation Transformer into a voltage Boost Isolation Transformer?

I cannot find the part number in the BlueSea catalog. Am I looking it up incorrectly, or could it be under a different number?
Thanks
 
I had excessive current leakage with my shorepower such that I was popping marina breakers that had upgraded their pedestals to the new 30mA requirement. I had an electrician diagnose it to be the boat which had all AC neutrals on the same buss bar. He isolated the AC neutrals associated with circuts that went through the inverter to one buss bar, and those neutrals with circuits that didn't onto another buss bar. This resolved my leakage problem, no longer popping breakers, and allowing me to enjoy my favorite beverage uninterrupted.


Now, if I could just get the wife to remember to not run the hair dryer and curling iron at the same time, I'd be able to really relax rather than always resetting breakers...

Giggle, I empathize.

I'm doing an electrical refit on my new to me boat and it came with an isolation transformer. Given the state of my electrical system I think one reason that my boat may have been fitted with the transformer was to mask a similar, and still existing, problem. That is just one of many issues on the boat.

All the goofy bits on mine should be addressed by the time she hits the water again, it is still nice to know that the transformer is there.
 
I've used Acme encapsulated transformers on boats, including commercial, for 25 years. I believe Acme was bought by Hubbell and Hubbell was bought by Marinco. Franklin Electric is another maker I've used.
 
I need to clarify that my galvanic isolator IS defective. It's 17 years old and after researching How To Test, it tests bad. Rather than replace it I'd rather install an isolation transformer. When I tested for stray voltage, everything is fine even when connected to shore power UNTIL I turn on the pedestal breaker. Even then I only get -.689kv. Again my research suggests that's still in range of good except as compared to the reading with power off. But the change in voltage from -965kv to -689kv would indicate an issue.


I'm really confused by this. It's stray current you would be worried by. Maybe you are measuring the zinc voltage relative to a reference cathode? In that case you would be measuring fractions of a volt, probably in millivolts.
 
I've used Acme encapsulated transformers on boats, including commercial, for 25 years. I believe Acme was bought by Hubbell and Hubbell was bought by Marinco. Franklin Electric is another maker I've used.


Hubbell bought my Marinco? That doesn't sound right. Hubbell is a public company.


Marinco is owned by Power Products, which is private equity owned, but is or has been sold off to Brunswick.
 
Not to critique, but a limited understanding is being applied as best can. "mv draw" is of no meaning electrically, "testing for stray voltage" is very vague unless it's known what's being tested. A transformer may not solve the present issue, or really enhance your boating or ownership experience at all.

First, let's get a zinc reference anode - a pencil anode with a length of wire connected to it with a ring terminal and a nut. Switch all battery power off and unplug the shore cord. Clean the pencil with scotch brite and suspend it overboard and connect to the negative lead of a multimeter set on the 2 volt DC scale. Hold the positive lead firmly to a bonded fitting - clean the spot a bit first. Note the reading. Assuming there is not a cathodic protection controller, the reading should be in the range of 80 Mv (0.08 V) or less with a new zinc of appropriate size. As the zinc is depleted the voltage rises. Adding more metal being protected increases the voltage. The maximum reading indicating sufficient protection for bronze and SS is 540 Mv (0.54 V). If out of this range, fix before proceeding.

Switch the DC power back on and re check the reading, it should not change, operate various loads. If being thorough, we'll check with the engine running and alternator putting out. None of these should not influence the reading.

Plug the shore cord in, leave the power off. Note the reading compared to previously. If it is higher your neighbors combined have less protection and are getting help from you, depleting yours. If the reading is lower your neighbors have more combined and you are getting help.

Switch the meter setting to 2V AC, reading should be zero. Note it is possible for magnetic fields to produce a couple of Mv reading. Switch on AC power, it should not influence the reading. Switch on loads on board, none should influence the reading. A reading from all loads, increasing as the total load increases, indicates a connection between the boat's AC Neutral and Ground busses that should not be there.

Post the results of those tests and we'll have something to work with.

Unless it was subjected to a high fault current, failure of a galvanic isolator is unlikely. Test as follows: Set a multimeter to diode test. Short circuit the isolator terminals for a moment then connect the meter. Reading should be 1.2 +/- .2 V. Short the terminals again then reverse the meter leads. The reading should be the same.

Marinco bought Hubbell is what I thought...
 
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Maybe you are thinking of MasterVolt? Marinco bought them a few years ago. Power Products was a roll-up of a bunch of companies including I think Blue Sea, BEP, Marinco, MasterVolt, CZone, etc. And recently all sold to Bunswick.


DnB lists Power Products as $300m revenue, and that includes Marinco, Anchor, BEP, Blue Sea, CZone, MasterVolt, etc. Hubbell is $3.6B, so more than 10x Power Products revenue.
 
You must be right, all these acquisitions are blending together like the BC shorelines... Seems I remember Acme getting shuffled around twice. Anyhow, Acme transformers are fine and the encapsulated models suitable for marine, albeit they do have a steel case.
 
I'm all in favor of isolation transformers, but think you should find and fix the electrical problems on your boat first, rather than using the isolation transformer to sweep them under the rug.


Also note that if you are suddenly going through zincs faster than expected, you have DC leakage of some sort. AC leakage won't impact zincs, only DC.


It seems you have two problems to unravel.

Tanglewood is right on all counts, especially identifying any issues rather than covering them up with a xfmr. One area of confusion, however, is the fact that the shore power cord, while it conveys AC power, will facilitate galvanic corrosion, which is DC in nature, when plugged into shore power and if not equipped with a transformer (xfmr) or functioning galvanic isolator (GI), and even if the shore power is off. GI's can block galvanic voltage up to about 1.4 VDC, while the ability of an xfmr to block is is unlimited because there is no actual connection between shore and boat ground. The current crop of GI's are far better than those of 10 or 20 years ago, in order to be ABYC compliant they must be fail safe, meaning if they fail, they retain the connection to the shore safety ground, while no longer providing corrosion protection.

Your problem may be the GI itself, legacy galvanic isolators, some more than others, were not of the highest quality, and not ABYC compliant, so it may not be doing its job. These are easy to test, https://marinehowto.com/testing-a-galvanic-isolator/ With no functioning GI, 4 months for anodes may not be unusual if you are in a marina, as your anodes could be protecting your neighbors' vessels.

An isolation xfmr is the gold standard when it comes to isolating shore power and potential galvanic corrosion sources (as well as making for a safer AC system overall where Electric Shock Drowning is concerned https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/electric-shock-drowning-and-elcis-explained/ ). However, I would only ever consider installing one that also boosts. Without the boost function, you can actually find yourself in a worse scenario than with no xfmr at all, in the event you plug into 208 service, which is not uncommon. With no xfmr if you plug into 208, you end up with 208/120 VAC aboard. With a xfmr, you end up with 208/104 aboard. If, on the other hand, your system is 120 VAC only, this is not an issue and no boosting is needed.

Charles no longer supports their boosting xfmrs, and their control boards do occasionally fail, however, an outfit in Fort Lauderdale does offer support and an improved board.

Transformers, especially the boosting 240 VAC variety are bulky and very heavy, making placement a problem on some vessels.

Hubbell offers an isolation xfmr that does everything the Charles unit did and then some, including a versatile digital display.

If you have 30 amp 120 VAC inlets that you use simultaneously, you need two transformers.

If you do need a 240 VAC xfmr, you can get an optional version that will accept a 120 VAC input, enabling you to plug into a 120 VAC dock outlet and still have limited kW 240 VAC aboard.

One final note, the same shore power transformer can be wired for polarization or isolation, the hardware is identical, the installation is different.

There are many nuances associated with shore power transformers, most of which are covered here https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/ShorePowerTransformers181-04.pdf
 
Are you using a clamp meter for your test? Which conductors are you clamping? If you are clamping all of them then you are measuring the marina leakage. To check for AC current leakage you should only clamp the current carrying conductors not the green ground too.

I need to clarify that my galvanic isolator IS defective. It's 17 years old and after researching How To Test, it tests bad. Rather than replace it I'd rather install an isolation transformer. When I tested for stray voltage, everything is fine even when connected to shore power UNTIL I turn on the pedestal breaker. Even then I only get -.689kv. Again my research suggests that's still in range of good except as compared to the reading with power off. But the change in voltage from -965kv to -689kv would indicate an issue.
 
I have a 2003 build/2004 model Mainship 400. I have a Charles isolation transformer that came equipped with the boat. Look in the hanging locker of the guest stateroom. It is outboard of the hanging locker.
 
We did the entire Great Loop and never once tripped a breaker even at Brunswick Landing (Georgia) where the first question we were asked before plugging in was whether we had had any problems in any other place. This was after, four years ago when this issue first began to be identified, I had gone looking for problems and found a jumper between the neutral and safety busbars. No isolation transformer needed but perhaps desirable for other reasons but we have never encountered a single one of the reasons often cited here. For me, an isolation transformer is one of those very expensive (and space-eating) nice-to-have boat items that add next to nothing of value. Others think differently. Encounter one of those "reasons" somewhere, somehow, there is a simpler solution. Don't plug in that night.
+2 on find the leakage to ground first.

Bud
 
Yes, as TT said an unraveling is needed if contemplating an IT.

A few years ago after tripping several different new US dock GFIC pedestals we decided it was time to install an IT. As much of our cruising was in Canada it was a low priority as Canadian dock wiring, voltage and code, not being the same as US, didn't trip us out.

After doing some digging it became clear that the GFIC smart guy to work with was Dan Hyde out of Emerald Harbor Marine in Seattle. So off to Elliott Bay we went. Dan had some years ago spent time at DeFever's Chinese build site and knew right where to look on our vessel for both an IT install site and our existing ground wiring design.

But first, Dan found that our grounding system was a hodgepodge as he had noted on his factory trip to China. We were OK for boat electrical designs from yesteryear but not today. So after some digging around in and totally rewiring our ship's ground, we no longer were leaking above 30ma.

We then said why do we need an IT? They can be noisy, put off heat are bulky and cost several thousand $$. So we said lets try it for a season with the revamped grounding system.

With a modest amount of care - turning off or bypassing the inverter for a brief period - we can readily plug into newer US GFIC docks. So like Catalina Jack, our DeFever is now ok. Dan Hyde said our issues are almost the norm on vessels built by last century electrical designs with a proper ground re-wiring the first and often easiest thing to try.
 
As posted elsewhere, I installed the Charles 3.6kv Iso Transformer (s) actually two on my boat. The Charles states that they need a double pole breaker in line before the transformer. I installed two because on my boat, I can not cross-connect between Shore Power 1 and 2, feeding off of just one SP inlet. it depends on how your boats shore power is set up. Jeffersons are set up differently. Shore Power 1 is Starboard side, SP 2 is Port side. running both transformers off of the Port side, I have to have both selector switches set to 2 (Port side), but again, on the panel, I can't use circuits on one side by feeding from the other. That is why I have two Iso Transformers. Some things feed off one circuit side, some things feed off the other so I run both shore power inlets at the same time. I tie up on port side so it isn't a problem. If I am at a marina and tied up Starboard side, then I run the shore power cords to the port side where the Iso Transformers are.
 
Are you using a clamp meter for your test? Which conductors are you clamping? If you are clamping all of them then you are measuring the marina leakage. To check for AC current leakage you should only clamp the current carrying conductors not the green ground too.

A galvanic isolator only blocks DC voltage, not AC, so AC readings are meaningless for this analysis.

An AC clamp meter placed around the entire shore cord that shows any current flow is not definitive, as there is no way to know, from that test alone, if that leakage is from the vessel that belongs to the cord, or another vessel and this cord is only the return "conduit". If the leakage reading disappears or changes significantly (more than 30 mA) when the shore pedestal breaker is turned off, then the vessel attached to the cord is the source, or at least a source, of leakage. If there is little or no change, then it's another vessel, it's not a corrosion risk, and there's not much you can do about it short of installing an iso xfmr. It does indicate AC current in the water, which may be a risk to anyone in the water, and it indicates a potentially dangerous fault on a nearby vessel.

For vessels equipped with transformers, wired for isolation, shore cords should show zero or very nearly zero AC leakage, and zero DC current. If these readings show anything more than this, there is a fault with the manner in which the xfrm is wired.

You could use a DC clamp meter (or even the conventional wired ampere measurement approach), with a jumper between shore cord ground and pedestal ground, with a working GI you should see no DC current flow.
 
I have a 2003 Mainship with Zinc Savers. Doing some testing and found the mv draw is excessive with shore power on. Started this after using a zinc in about 4 months. Not sure how best to test Zinc Saver and research shows installing an isolation transformer is the best route anyway. I've been reviewing posts and Charles Iso is what most have but they are no longer selling marine equipment.

Here are my questions.
What brands currently available have people been using?
I have bow and stern dock power connectors. Could I connect both to 1 transformer or would I need 2?
Many more questions, but these will get me started.

Thanks in advance.
Update on bonding system and zinc consumption.
Tested bonding system and found several problems with poor connections, 1 wire submerged in bilge water and 1 broken bonding wire. All connections have been cleaned and repaired. Testing using a silver/silver-chloride electrode resulted in all test points showing the same -994Mv reading.
Replaced 18 year old Zinc Saver with Promariner Pro-Safe 60 amp galvanic isolator. Further testing still found excessive voltage (-665Mv) with shore power on. Research suggests there may be an issue from another boat and will be looking at that soon. I'll post back what I find.
 
-665mV, AC or DC and where is this being measured, on the SP cord? Of AC and on the SP cord, the GI will not stop that, it only blocks DC, and as long as it does not originate on your vessel, there's nothing you can do about it. Was it measured with SP breakers on or off? If off, and there is little or no difference between on and off, it's not from your vessel.
 
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