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08-20-2023, 05:29 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
City: Lagrange, IL
Vessel Name: Moondance
Vessel Model: Grand Banks CL 42
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 196
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leaking shut-off valves for sight gauge
These push button fuel shut-off valves don't always seat and then leak. It looks like they can be disassembled and rebuilt with maybe an O ring or two but I have no info on this valve. Have you fixed yours or did you replace with a ball valve? Any info appreciated.
Sorry for the sideways pic.
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Pat T
Grand Banks 42 CL
#1469
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08-20-2023, 05:39 PM
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#2
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6,461
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LDI Industries makes sight gages. It's all they do. I went with these with borosilicate tube protected in an aluminum cage. Needle valves control fluid flow. I realize they are not push-bottom momentary valves, but my thinking was they LDI seems to make high quality gages for industrial applications.
https://www.grainger.com/product/LDI...id-Level-1U946
If I had it to do all over again, I would have my fiberglass tanks fabricated with an indent for sight gages - I believe Nordhavn is one of the builders who does this. Very sano install.
Peter
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M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
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08-20-2023, 06:27 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: Walkabout Creek
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9,558
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That's an interesting push button valve. I haven't seen one like that before. I wonder what the significance is of the arrow? For a sight gauge I think fluid would need to flow in both directions, right?
I think I posted a link to these Apollo self-closing valves that are commonly used on boats the need to meet CE certification for Europe.
https://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Valves.../dp/B071JD61G9
The link is for a stainless version, but there are brass versions too. Not cheap, but they work well, and close as soon as you release the lever.
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MVTanglewood.com
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08-20-2023, 06:40 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6,461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
That's an interesting push button valve. I haven't seen one like that before. I wonder what the significance is of the arrow? For a sight gauge I think fluid would need to flow in both directions, right?
I think I posted a link to these Apollo self-closing valves that are commonly used on boats the need to meet CE certification for Europe.
https://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Valves.../dp/B071JD61G9
The link is for a stainless version, but there are brass versions too. Not cheap, but they work well, and close as soon as you release the lever. |
Does CE also require top-feed tubes on tanks? If so, if a boat had an old leaking saddle tank, replacement of one tank woth two tanks would require top-feed tubes and a manifold to manage four tanks (two each side) instead of two, correct?
Peter
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M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
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08-20-2023, 11:06 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
City: Lagrange, IL
Vessel Name: Moondance
Vessel Model: Grand Banks CL 42
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 196
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[QUOTE=twistedtree;1190050]That's an interesting push button valve. I haven't seen one like that before. I wonder what the significance is of the arrow? For a sight gauge I think fluid would need to flow in both directions, right?
Yeah, can't figure out the arrow. Flow is definitely 2 way.
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Pat T
Grand Banks 42 CL
#1469
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08-21-2023, 05:30 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 5,409
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Why so complicated.
Brass 1/2 inch ball valve is $20 or less at any big hardware or plumbing shop.
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Everything on a boat is broken, you just don't know it yet
Full time cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations
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08-21-2023, 05:36 AM
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#7
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Guru
City: Solomons Island Md
Vessel Name: Fryedaze
Vessel Model: MC 42 (Overseas Co) Monk 42
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60
Why so complicated.
Brass 1/2 inch ball valve is $20 or less at any big hardware or plumbing shop.
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08-21-2023, 07:51 AM
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#8
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Guru
City: Olympia
Vessel Name: Rendezvous
Vessel Model: Blue water 40
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,177
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[QUOTE=Pat T;1190072]
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
That's an interesting push button valve. I haven't seen one like that before. I wonder what the significance is of the arrow? For a sight gauge I think fluid would need to flow in both directions, right?
Yeah, can't figure out the arrow. Flow is definitely 2 way.
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The arrow usually indicates a free flow direction, or intended flow direction. Being a spring loaded valve like that leads me to believe it’s essentially a check valve with a push button bypass for free flow both directions.
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08-21-2023, 09:40 AM
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#9
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Guru
City: Walkabout Creek
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles
Does CE also require top-feed tubes on tanks? If so, if a boat had an old leaking saddle tank, replacement of one tank woth two tanks would require top-feed tubes and a manifold to manage four tanks (two each side) instead of two, correct?
Peter
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I'm not sure about CE in that regard, but my guess is that they do not have such a requirement. I say that because the standard fuel setup on Nordhavns are large gravity feed fuel lines from the main tanks to a supply/day tank where it is then drawn/returned by consumers. Those gravity feed lines are all from ports at the bottom of the tanks, and I have never seen or heard of a boat where they have been removed, including a number of CE boats.
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MVTanglewood.com
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08-21-2023, 09:45 AM
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#10
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Guru
City: Walkabout Creek
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9,558
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[QUOTE=Bmarler;1190102]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat T
The arrow usually indicates a free flow direction, or intended flow direction. Being a spring loaded valve like that leads me to believe it’s essentially a check valve with a push button bypass for free flow both directions.
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Interesting. So if installed "correctly", the sight tube level would drop with the tank level, and you would only need to push the button to refill the tube when you fill the tank? That would be pretty slick, but I would wonder about the opening pressure of the check valve, and resulting difference in indicated vs tank fuel levels. Might be just fine, or close enough, but I'd want to know.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
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08-21-2023, 11:11 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
City: Vancouver
Vessel Name: Callisto
Vessel Model: 1974 Grand Banks 42 Classic, Hull 433
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 474
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[QUOTE=Pat T;1190072]
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree
That's an interesting push button valve. I haven't seen one like that before. I wonder what the significance is of the arrow? For a sight gauge I think fluid would need to flow in both directions, right?
Yeah, can't figure out the arrow. Flow is definitely 2 way.
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Valves sometimes have a flow direction indicated. When installed with the pressure source upstream (according to the arrow) the valve stem seal is not subject to pressure (and possible leakage) when the valve is closed.
If these valves are in fact "check valves" - which I doubt - they would give erroneous level readings due to the cracking pressure of the check valve.
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08-21-2023, 11:32 AM
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#12
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Guru
City: Olympia
Vessel Name: Rendezvous
Vessel Model: Blue water 40
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,177
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[QUOTE=twistedtree;1190120]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmarler
Interesting. So if installed "correctly", the sight tube level would drop with the tank level, and you would only need to push the button to refill the tube when you fill the tank? That would be pretty slick, but I would wonder about the opening pressure of the check valve, and resulting difference in indicated vs tank fuel levels. Might be just fine, or close enough, but I'd want to know.
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the level probably won't drop automatically due to spring pressure holding the valve shut. impossible to know what the spring pressure is without having the spec of the valve.
the only time an accurate reading can be taken is when the valve is actuated.
of course, this is all speculation from looking at the valve picture and prior experience with similar plumbing pieces.
i get why they installed those in the first place, as they are automatically closing valves. personally, i'd prefer a ball valve. as was mentioned, those can be serviced, but the tank needs to be empty to do it.
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08-21-2023, 11:54 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
City: Vancouver
Vessel Name: Callisto
Vessel Model: 1974 Grand Banks 42 Classic, Hull 433
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 474
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[QUOTE=Pat T;1190041]. . . It looks like they can be disassembled and rebuilt with maybe an O ring or two but I have no info on this valve. . . QUOTE
You could remove the upper valve with fuel still in the tank and take it apart and see how it works/seals.
Do send us pictures of the disassembled valve!
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08-21-2023, 03:36 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
City: Lagrange, IL
Vessel Name: Moondance
Vessel Model: Grand Banks CL 42
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 196
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Found out from Grand Banks it was a Guidi (Italian) valve. From the attached Pdf it looks to be an O ring and a thicker type of seal that would be the culprit. I've emailed them for info on rebuilding. We shall see but I am leaning toward replacing them with ball valves as suggested.
The next project, maybe another thread, is how to drain fuel from one tank into the other tank so that I can replace the lower sitting valve and not dump diesel out all over the place.
__________________
Pat T
Grand Banks 42 CL
#1469
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08-21-2023, 04:48 PM
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#15
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Guru
City: Los Angeles
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat T
Found out from Grand Banks it was a Guidi (Italian) valve. From the attached Pdf it looks to be an O ring and a thicker type of seal that would be the culprit. I've emailed them for info on rebuilding. We shall see but I am leaning toward replacing them with ball valves as suggested.
The next project, maybe another thread, is how to drain fuel from one tank into the other tank so that I can replace the lower sitting valve and not dump diesel out all over the place.
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I would attempt to rebuild them. These valves are the standard type used on oil
storage tanks which, like boat fuel tanks, can be unattended for long periods.
Unlike ball valves, they are impossible to forget to close. The o-rings look common.
__________________
Science doesn't care what you believe. -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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09-20-2023, 05:29 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Gibsons, B.C., Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,347
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The next project, maybe another thread, is how to drain fuel from one tank into the other tank so that I can replace the lower sitting valve and not dump diesel out all over the place.
Run the tanks down to a point that you can then pump fuel from one tank to another.
It is not a big deal. Just needs a small fuel resistant pump to move a few gallons a minute.
I did this many years ago as both tanks had leaks at the fuel feed valves at the tank bottoms.
Once you are sure the tanks, both, are below the 1/2 way level pump away.
THere will be some fuel spilled so be prepared.
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