Propane safety? availability?

[phillippeterson]

Many newer boats have induction stoves for cooking. Is that so it's not necessary to carry propane?

Does using propane create moisture in the cabin? Does insurance go up if you're using propane (our home insurance went up when we chose propane!)? Is it hard to store?

Is propane readily available in other countries if we went, say, around South America? Or to the Med?

My wife really likes cooking on propane but conversations with boat builders say induction is a better, safer, more convenient and more reliable choice.

 

[Constellation1]

I'm sure this will become quite an opinion piece, but here is one perspective on the subject.

Is induction . electric safer - I believe it is. I'm sure you're aware of propane flashpoint and danger if not handled, monitored and stored correctly.

We have a propane stove and external propane grill, and always have. In fact the stove / oven was switched from electric as we prefer cooking with propane, and induction or any electric is quite a load on batteries. We have appropriate solenoid switching and propane 'sniffing' gear onboard, our propane locker is vented and we had no issue with insurance.

We have not had high moisture issues with propane and have used the oven and a propane furnace on our last trawler.

I can't speak to acquiring propane outside of North America as I have no experience in that area.

 

[DavidM]

A properly installed propane system with an integrated propane detector is pretty darn safe. By properly installed I mean a solenoid valve right at the propane cylinder, tied into a propane detector that will shut it off if a leak is detected, plus an on off switch (also tied into the propane detector) to turn it on each time the stove is used and off afterwards.

One caveat: Propane detector elements fail after a few years in alarm mode. Keep a spare on hand and know how to change it out.

Propane is available world wide I believe. It certainly is available in the Bahamas which is the only foreign country I have experience with.

 

[tiltrider1]

Many newer boats have induction stoves for cooking. Is that so it's not necessary to carry propane?

Does using propane create moisture in the cabin? Technically yes but not in any noticeable amount. Now making spaghetti on an induction stove will put a noticeable amount of moisture in the air..

Does insurance go up if you're using propane (our home insurance went up when we chose propane!)? Is it hard to store? Technically yes but again, I have not see this in practice, maybe Peter can fill this bit in

Is it hard to store? Technically, yes, you must meet the safety rules and on some boats this is difficult, most boats it’s a one time expense that could be significant or non significant depending on the boat.

Is propane readily available in other countries if we went, say, around South America? Or to the Med? second only to diesel in availability, I have never not found propane.

boat builders say induction is a better, safer, more convenient and more reliable choice. This is all true but by how much and they are selling boats not making your wife happy

My wife is a professional chef, it’s gas or no go with her. You bet we have propane and have had on every boat we have owned. The advantages of induction don’t compare to the rewards of a happy wife.

 

[oscar]

It's another system with another fuel. You already have a fuel on board, and a generator (assuming so) making electricity. Just plug in the cooker. Why add another system.

I am the cook at home. Buy a counter top plug in induction cooker (cheap on Amazon) for the house and have your wife try it. She will find that unlike older style electrical cook tops the temperature adjustments are as instantaneous as gas.... She may like it. (Note: an induction cooker requires a ferrous pan. No aluminum no stainless. Check your pots with a magnet. Cast iron works REALLY well and a lot of people LOVE it for cooking)

Safety wise, as stated a solenoid at the tank in overboard vented compartment, and sniffer interlock. When properly maintained it is safe. When neglected it CAN cause problems. Propane is heavier than air and settles in the bilges. Add an ignition source and you will be on the news. It's devastating.

No propane on my boat. Ever. (Not gasoline either for that matter but that's another (similar) story.)

 

[AlanT]

Is propane readily available in other countries if we went, say, around South America? Or to the Med? second only to diesel in availability, I have never not found propane.

[/B]

Contrary to a prior opinion Propane is not widely available in the Med. Most or likely all* Mediterranean countries widely use Butane in containers that are made of steel (not Aluminium). These cheap blue-painted containers are about 10" diameter and you will not find refill stations. Instead you simply exchange your empty tank for a freshly painted filled one. Our propane locker with space for two propane tanks had room for 4 of the smaller butane tanks. The fittings for butane tanks are different also as is the required regulator. The same solenoid can be used.

Here is my website page on the adaption needed: Moonstruck Hylas Yacht European Modifications

In our experience we were able to use our Stove/Range and BBQ successfully without switching the jets in our Stove. However they are not chemically the same and you should research the differences before attempting a conversion.

*We can only confirm those Med countries we visited: Portugal, Spain, Gibraltar, France, Italy, Croatia, Greece, Turkey, Malta, Morrocco, also (non-Med) Canary Islands.

Note: Propane IS widely available and tanks are refilled in the Caribbean, however sometimes you will not get back the same tank you dropped off. Tanks are often collected at marinas and returned the next day. Even if you paint your vessel name on the tank, it may get taken by someone else and their battered tank left for you to pick up (ask me how I know this!).
~Alan

 

[SoWhat]

Pick your poison. You will be running your generator whenever you run your induction stove. That has it own set of danger's. (and ignoring my wife's preference is beyond dangerous.)

 

[Hippocampus]

When spec’ing the house went gas for cooking. Rest of house is geothermal and solar but wife wanted gas stove, electric ovens ( two with a steam oven). It wasn’t about energy budget but controlling a flame. We still liberate a lot of electrons. Have a lot of cookware both on the boat and in the house so also spec’d the boat for gas. Think it’s belt and suspenders. Diesels will start with compression, fuel and air. You have two ways to move. Either twins or some form of get home. But induction is dependent upon adequate electricity. So for big boats induction makes sense given the resilience of the electrical system but for small boat long term cruisers maybe not. If I had induction on a boat would add a gas barbecue.
Yes, down in the leewards you may need to take a cab to get to a gas station or industrial supply to get a fill. But even living full time on the boat it’s a rare chore. Maybe once every few months.

 

[ksanders]

I am probably the only person left that likes old fashioned electricity for cooking.

That provides an advantage in that I only have to think about Diesel fuel to keep the boat going.

When on the hook I coordinate activities that require the generator together. Recharge the batteries, desalinate water, use the stove, wash some clothes, and of course heat potable water.

Between all these things I run the generator a couple times a day for a couple hours each time.

 

[sbman]

I think people need to try a good induction cooktop before they write them off. They are not the same as an electric stove, not even in the same category.

As someone that always preferred gas stoves, after using induction I prefer it over gas. It's a better cooking experience with faster control response, extra features (keep a pan at a certain temperature automatically), and in a small space it keeps the room a lot cooler because no heat goes into the room, it all goes into the pan.

 

[DavidM]

I think people need to try a good induction cooktop before they write them off. They are not the same as an electric stove, not even in the same category.

As someone that always preferred gas stoves, after using induction I prefer it over gas. It's a better cooking experience with faster control response, extra features (keep a pan at a certain temperature automatically), and in a small space it keeps the room a lot cooler because no heat goes into the room, it all goes into the pan.

David

 

[AlanT]

My wife really likes cooking on propane but conversations with boat builders say induction is a better, safer, more convenient and more reliable choice.

I am guessing that boat builders who promote induction are somewhat influenced by the fact that induction involves the installation of a single cooktop or range, whereas propane involves also making space for a vented sealed storage compartment, propane sniffers, solenoid and secure gas plumbing lines. For the builder it's an easy call. For the boat owner go with what you will get the most satisfaction out of.

Every superyacht I have seen has propane in their professional galleys. This is despite the fact that they run generators 24/7 to power innumerable systems, so induction cooking would be simpler to install. Why? Because the owners know that their chefs will demand it.

Unfortunately we inherited induction and an electric oven on our current boat. We are no longer living aboard full time and consequently we will suffer along comfortably, but in a perfect world would certainly switch to propane to satisfy both chefs on board.

As to reliability, the reliability of induction depends exclusively on the reliability of your genset. The reliability of propane depends upon the reliability of your memory to refill the empty tank when you switch from the empty to the full.

~Alan

 

[tiltrider1]

Contrary to a prior opinion Propane is not widely available in the Med. Most or likely all* Mediterranean countries widely use Butane in containers that are made of steel (not Aluminium). These cheap blue-painted containers are about 10" diameter and you will not find refill stations. Instead you simply exchange your empty tank for a freshly painted filled one. Our propane locker with space for two propane tanks had room for 4 of the smaller butane tanks. The fittings for butane tanks are different also as is the required regulator. The same solenoid can be used.

Here is my website page on the adaption needed: Moonstruck Hylas Yacht European Modifications

In our experience we were able to use our Stove/Range and BBQ successfully without switching the jets in our Stove. However they are not chemically the same and you should research the differences before attempting a conversion.

*We can only confirm those Med countries we visited: Portugal, Spain, Gibraltar, France, Italy, Croatia, Greece, Turkey, Malta, Morrocco, also (non-Med) Canary Islands.

Note: Propane IS widely available and tanks are refilled in the Caribbean, however sometimes you will not get back the same tank you dropped off. Tanks are often collected at marinas and returned the next day. Even if you paint your vessel name on the tank, it may get taken by someone else and their battered tank left for you to pick up (ask me how I know this!).
~Alan

I’ll confess, it’s been 20 years since I actually lived in Europe. Back then we all cooked with gas. They called it bomboli and it was a combinational of butane and propane. Worked just fine in American gas grills and in European stoves. It’s possible that they no longer mix in the propane but I find that hard to believe. I am not surprised about the tanks. We used to just call the grocery store and they would pick up our empties and drop off full ones.

 

[AlanT]

I’ll confess, it’s been 20 years since I actually lived in Europe. Back then we all cooked with gas. They called it bomboli and it was a combinational of butane and propane. Worked just fine in American gas grills and in European stoves. It’s possible that they no longer mix in the propane but I find that hard to believe. I am not surprised about the tanks. We used to just call the grocery store and they would pick up our empties and drop off full ones.

Our experience was more recent (2007-2010) but now more than a decade ago so it may have changed since, but at that time most European countries and all the ones we visited were using either straight Butane or blends of Butane and Propane in ratios that varied according to the climate (seasonally). Apparently straight butane liquifies and becomes unusable at winter temps in some countries, so propane is blended in. However the essential points for the consumer are that the fittings are different from our US fittings, the calorific value is higher so caution is needed if using US propane jets, and a different regulator is used.
~A

 

[IRENE]

I think people need to try a good induction cooktop before they write them off. They are not the same as an electric stove, not even in the same category.

As someone that always preferred gas stoves, after using induction I prefer it over gas. It's a better cooking experience with faster control response, extra features (keep a pan at a certain temperature automatically), and in a small space it keeps the room a lot cooler because no heat goes into the room, it all goes into the pan.

We recently switched to induction on IRENE and have the same thoughts. It has been great, so far. Today, we made breakfast using induction, which was supplemented by solar power. Its quite reasonable to use the induction for small to medium jobs via the inverter. We didn’t need a bunch of extra heat in the cabin as it was 90+ today on the hook with a cold engine room. It is very fast and efficient…SBman couldn’t have said it better.

We were comfortable with the overall safety of our propane system. It was removed from the boat for a bunch of other reasons, mainly:

1. keep unwanted heat out of the boat
2. keep unwanted moisture out of the boat
3. remove flames from the cabin
4. trade poor-performing propane oven for high-performance 120VAC oven
5. eliminate an onboard system
6. eliminate sourcing propane while cruising (mainly outside North America)
7. add storage to IRENE via removal of propane cylinder and large galley appliance (we “got” another cockpit locker AND enough additional galley storage for all of our cookware)

Finally, we like the option of moving an induction unit outside to cook smelly things or vent steam from a boiling pot. We have not used induction outside yet.

 

[Hippocampus]

Will say electric, especially convention, has it all over propane for baking. Propane ovens aren’t even close. A lot of pro chefs have moved to induction so think that’s an unfair hit as well. Once you learn it and have the right set up it does a fine job.

 

[Frosty]

My personal preference: I like to cook with propane on any boat larger than say, a runabout. Goes without saying that the installation is completely by the book.

Without going into every last in and out of propane vs. induction (I'm sure you will get plenty of good comparison info), I'll just speak to a couple of factors having to do with propane.

(I won't speak to installation "hassles" because it doesn't sound like you'd be DIY-ing it, so your interest is more in the usage from what I can tell.)

So you do have to fill propane tanks from time to time. There's no practical way to "make your own" (in the way that solar or generator can "make" your own electricity and you are making fuel stops for diesel anyway). That can be a minor hassle stateside (or wherever home is for you - sorry I don't know what country Lockhart is in). It can be a bit more of a hassle if in foreign countries with no car (but then the ratio of helpful taxi drivers seems to go up).

So how often is "time to time"? Well here is one data point.

Capacity: Two 11# propane tanks for 22# total (a standard ubiquitous barbecue tank in the US is 20# for comparison).

Cooking activity: LOTS (offshore trip). Oatmeal for breakfast, cups of coffee or tea about 6x per day, lots of dinner cooking of time-consuming ingredients (rice, lentils, beans, etc.) Every single day we baked either bread, a dessert, or both from scratch (we don't cook much at home but at sea it's suddenly the thing to do!).

Over 60 days we almost used up one of the 11# tanks.

Unless you are a cooking fiend, this seems like the most a person could use over a 60-day period.

So with this amount of usage, a standard 20# propane tank (the type people exchange at gas stations and etc.) would last 4 months.

*************

I don't list the above to convince you one way or the other. Food can be cooked in a number of different ways. Just, since re-filling propane can be a bit of a hassle (sometimes), I think it's key to know just how often this would occur. If it were weekly, I'd say no way. Since it isn't (for me), I do like to cook with propane.

 

[rsn48]

I use most electrical goodies at the marina, and propane when on the hook. A portable induction plate is my poison of choice. It is rare for me to use more than one burner of either inclination; I use this in conjunction with either a microwave, or BBQ when on the hook. Convection stove and induction plate and microwave when at the marina.

 

[FF]

Electric is great for cooking tied to a dock with plenty of power.

Propane means you are not forced to install 2 noisemakers , just to get a hot meal.

The biggest advantage to me is Propane can also power the reefer , the biggest power hog on most boats.

Many newer reefers will consume a single US so called 20 lb bottle a month to keep a good sized reefer hard ice cream cold.

No noise, no repairs , no dead batts , just for the price of a proper installation , and about 50c a day , and you get to cook for free!

A cruising boat is a system , the simpler the easier to maintain.

Our reefer was a Motorola, built before Dometic took them over , perhaps 40-50 years ago. Biggest maint was changing lever on bottle to switch tanks.

 

[timb7734]

I have had both. Induction is my choice for small spaces and where more cabin heat is not desired. Current boats: one is electric via a dirt house stove/oven, with a backup induction hob, the other is all marine propane. I prefer the propane but not appreciative of burnt gasses in small spaces. As noted above, cooking two meals per day, two 11 lb. tanks last me most of a year, so the filling thing isn’t a problem. The genset must run in the boat with electric galley. Motor home is electric/induction powered by an 800 amp hr lithium bank and inverted. That’s also the smallest galley.

 

[Lepke]

I use a diesel stove or induction depending on the weather. My inverter will run the induction. At anchor, I can go 2-3 days without running a generator. I have a propane bbq, but I don't use propane inside the hull for obvious reason. Eventually the gas line gets old, the battery goes dead in the detector, and you get a propane leak. I got more pictures...