Heat pump combo washer/dryer

[socalrider]

https://electrek.co/2024/01/25/lg-vs-ge-profile-heat-pump-washer-dryers-compared/

This is interesting - I'd not heard about these heat pump units, which the article claims are vastly better than the electric resistance combo units we're used to. Not mentioned in the article, but it seems ideal for boating:

- Much more energy efficient: ~1kWh for a full load washed and dried (83a-h @ 12V), and only 2hrs for a wash/dry cycle

- No vent required (surprising - would want to verify performance claims, but a big advantage if it actually works well)

- 120Vac only - no 240Vac required

The only downside mentioned is that they're heavy - 300lbs! Installation would be a bear. Regardless, it looks like an option worth considering for anyone looking at adding, replacing, or upgrading a washer/dryer.

I have a heat pump water heater at home. I think a small unit would be great for a boat - vastly less energy required than a resistance unit, and would make going solar only even easier.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Interesting. Sure would be nice to have laundry aboard. 300 pounds does sound like an installation challenge, but far from impossible. Any concern about the build quality and ruggedness of residential equipment in the marine environment and its ability to take a beating?

 

[Jeff F]

I've had a heat pump dryer made by LG in a rental unit for a few years. Ventless and 110v. It works pretty well and is very energy efficient.

I'd love a heat pump combo unit for the boat. When I shopped for one a couple of years ago the only ones I found were made by Splendide. I think they're common in Europe, but there hasn't been much to choose from in North America.

 

[socalrider]

Interesting. Sure would be nice to have laundry aboard. 300 pounds does sound like an installation challenge, but far from impossible. Any concern about the build quality and ruggedness of residential equipment in the marine environment and its ability to take a beating?

I don’t think there are dedicated marine units. It’s not critical equipment so I’d certainly be fine taking the risk.

 

[luna]

As these heat pump clothes dryers are said to be ventless, does the water which was in the wet clothes that must become water vapour (the only way to dry the clothes) simply get dumped into the air adjacent to the clothes dryer? The water has to go somewhere!

If so, that might work OK in a house with lots of volume and ventilation in the laundry room, but on a boat with a cabinet constrained dryer and poor ventilation, I have my doubts as to whether their performance would be acceptable.

Perhaps its like a Splendide ventless dryer that drives up the temperature inside the dryer to create steam, thereby drying the clothes and then it condenses the steam back to liquid water and pumps the liquid down the drain. A painfully slow and inefficient way to dry clothes, but it works.

Either way, I suspect that even on a 65º day in a stiff breeze, the bow rail and a few clamps will dry things quicker and for sure cheaper, although the admiral may take exception to displaying her unmentionables.

 

[CurtD]

Heat pump dryer are common in Europe and much more energy efficient than my vented traditional dryer. The moisture is removed the way an A/C unit removes humidity with a little added heat to help the process. The condensate must also be drained the same way. So, if you have A/C on your boat you probably already have this issue solved. Camping World has a combo unit from Contoure that weighs 160 lbs. Don’t know energy usage or reliability.

 

[rslifkin]

A heat pump dryer is pretty much a dehumidifier in a box from a functional perspective. Air from the hot side of the heat pump gets blown through the clothes, then the cold side condenses water out of the air before it recirculates to get warmed back up and flow over the clothes again.

 

[PierreR]

I can find lots of ventless washer/dryer combos on Amazon and others but not a single one of them tell me whether they are heat pump types of just dump the air into the room.

 

[rslifkin]

I can find lots of ventless washer/dryer combos on Amazon and others but not a single one of them tell me whether they are heat pump types of just dump the air into the room.

Some of the ventless units will say they're condensing dryers. Without a heat pump, those aren't suitable for a boat, as they use power to heat air and then waste cold water down the drain through a heat exchanger, taking advantage of the cold water to condense moisture out of the air in the dryer.

 

[socalrider]

Either way, I suspect that even on a 65º day in a stiff breeze, the bow rail and a few clamps will dry things quicker and for sure cheaper, although the admiral may take exception to displaying her unmentionables.

For sure - the advantages here are that you can hit a button and your dirty clothes will, in two hours, emerge clean and dry, regardless of whether it's raining, freezing, or blowing like stink. You don't even need to move them to a dryer. It's appealing even to replace our existing washer/dryer at home for that reason.

You can always just run the wash cycle and air dry if you need to conserve energy. Seems to me like an excellent retrofit solution for one of the old units that requires a generator running to power.

 

[twistedtree]

Do these heat pump combo units have equal wash and dry capacities? That's one of the hassles with the Splendide units. You can wash two socks at a time, but you can only dry one at a time. So you run a wash load, then pull half of it out, dry (sort of) the first half, then dry (sort of) the second half.

In my experience, you settle for these different types of machines only when you absolutely have to. They all suck compared to a heated, vented dryer. But on a boat, you often have to settle because there just isn't space. Been there, done that.

 

[ranger58sb]

We have a new vented Splendide combo, installed last summer, first used yesterday. Tried a "full" load of whites; our first front loading unit, wifey eyeballed quantity to guess at what "full" means. Turned out to be about 2 weeks' worth of my tidy whities and white socks.

Anyway, once we puzzled out how to start the dryer function, the unit dried the "full" load easily enough.

Have always read the vented units work OK, non-vented units suck. Never heard of "heat pump" versions before. Since ours is vented, I guess it's not a heat-pump version. ?

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

Have always read the vented units work OK, non-vented units suck. Never heard of "heat pump" versions before. Since ours is vented, I guess it's not a heat-pump version. ?

-Chris

Correct, the vented units are just standard resistance heat dryers, no heat pump. And I don't think the older (and often complained about) ventless Splendide units are heat pump units either.

 

[PierreR]

Some of the ventless units will say they're condensing dryers. Without a heat pump, those aren't suitable for a boat, as they use power to heat air and then waste cold water down the drain through a heat exchanger, taking advantage of the cold water to condense moisture out of the air in the dryer.

The things I was reading don't say anything period. I have no idea if they are heat pump or not and I am not buying without knowing. I don't want a bunch of condensation in my boat.

 

[rslifkin]

The things I was reading don't say anything period. I have no idea if they are heat pump or not and I am not buying without knowing. I don't want a bunch of condensation in my boat.

None of the units vent into the boat as far as I know, so that shouldn't be a concern. It's more a question of power use, water use, and drying performance.

 

[Jeff F]

Correct, the vented units are just standard resistance heat dryers, no heat pump. And I don't think the older (and often complained about) ventless Splendide units are heat pump units either.

I bought a used Splendide ventless dryer assuming it was a heat pump model and it's not. It uses resistance heat and condenses the steam using cold water. They may still make both types. It's useless as a dryer, and consumes water on the dry cycle. I didn't install it on the boat.

 

[luna]

So, after a bit of reading it seems that all of these ventless dryers are of the condensing design that capture the liquid water and discharge it somehow down a drain. The real energy savings comes from the method of heat delivery, resistance (Splendide) or by way of a heat pump with its COP of likely around 4.0 (LG or others).

There are however some other things to consider.

-All of the power used during the drying cycle is turned into heat and is delivered into the room, except that portion of the heat that is contained in the cool condensate water that is discharged. This could be a generally good thing in the the PNW and not so good in Florida. A vented dryer with its cool down cycle removes most of this heat but it also, while it's running discharges your lovely cool conditioned air. There is no free lunch, ever.

- The heat pump design uses what is said to be a much higher air velocity to speed the drying. Any medium that is moving at high velocity is increasingly difficult to filter as the medium just forces the crap through the filter.
Understanding that this air is recyled through a lint producing clothes filled dryer, I would expect that there is an effective filter (not just a lint screen) protecting the Evap. and Cond. coils that would require regular service. Access to this filter, if it exists could prove difficult with a cabinet constrained dryer. If the filter or coils get loaded up with lint you can expect significantly reduced performance and likely have quite a task to clean the two coils that reside down low in the steerage section of the machine.

Call me a cynic, but manufactures who build stuff overly complex, even to achieve some energy savings, when simple works just fine are doing so with one eye on the increased service revenue for their dealers.

For me, I'll stick with my old fashion resistance heated vented dryer that is simple to fix, blows all of the unwanted stuff overboard and drys the clothes in about the same time as a wash cycle.




-

 

[Lepke]

People I know with ventless, condensing dryers say the clothes don't get completely dry and it takes a long time to get there.
Splendie has a washer with a dryer included that is vented. You can program the drying when you start the wash and end up with mostly dry clothes. So you only have the footprint of one appliance. Roughly 24"x24".
I still have a dryer so I can do multiple loads while my generator is running.

 

[Shrew]

Go to Amazon and read the reviews on this machine.

https://www.amazon.com/LG-WM3998HBA...cr_unknown?filterByStar=one_star&pageNumber=1

 

[Xlantic]

As a mechanical engineer student, I specialised in HVAC, and when I first heard of heat-pump dryers I immediately recognized them as a very elegant solution.

Heat-pump dryers are much more energy efficient than other electrical dryers. According to the UK's Which magazine they consume a third of the electricity:

"Which? tests reveal that, on average, vented tumble dryers cost around £162 a year to run and condenser dryers will add £150 to your energy bill over a year.

But energy-saving heat pump tumble dryers are much cheaper, with recently reviewed models costing less than £50 a year to run on average. The most energy-efficient heat-pump dryers cost even less."

And in addition, a heat-pump dryer makes the heating or cooling of the house or boat more efficient. The heat-pump dryer's lower energy consumption also means less heating of the room where the dryer is when compared to traditional vent-less dryers. And, because they are vent-less, heat-pump dryers don't create the need to draw in outside air which has a negative impact on the efficiency of the cooling or heating of the house or boat.

Another advantage is that because they operate at a lower temperature they cause less damage to the clothes.

This is what the Wirecutter has to say:

The other type of ventless dryer uses a heat pump, as in our upgrade pick. This is better technology. It relies on an active heat exchanger, filled with refrigerant, to remove moisture very efficiently. Though the dry times are about the same as in condenser dryers, heat-pump dryers use about half as much energy and are much gentler on clothes because they work at much, much lower temperatures than any other kind of dryer. They have almost no effect on your home’s climate control either.

We installed a heat-pump dryer in our house a couple of months ago and are very satisfied with its performance. There is a lint filter that needs to be cleaned regularly, as with any dryer. The condenser is automatically cleaned by a clever system that uses the condensated water to periodically flush it.

 

[JAllen]

We bought the Equator combo from Home
Depot. Not a heat pump but allows for vented and non-vented. Plus it was the right size.
https://equatorappliances.com/produ...sher-dryer-silver-2021-431-1528&category_id=2

 

[socalrider]

As a mechanical engineer student, I specialised in HVAC, and when I first heard of heat-pump dryers I immediately recognized them as a very elegant solution.

Thanks! Very helpful and encouraging. I love heat pumps & have them for our home water heater and HVAC. This is the first I'd seen for clothes dryers - I'm tempted to get one for our house since we live in San Diego, with the most expensive electricity in the country.

 

[CaptTom]

One question: How much longer do heat pump dryers take to finish a load? That seems to be an issue that's being danced around by the proponents. Makes me suspicious.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

I would not have one without a vented dryer - had a ventless one in one our rental units - worked ok for a year, then was impossible to keep clear. We had a vented one on our boat and it worked great.

 

[dutch-barge]

we have an LG washer/dryer combo
yes it is ventless
yes it pumps out water when drying
Heavy stuff like jeans dont get fully dry, so a little bit longer on the line
No this combo is not 300 LBs but 125 Lbs
Yes it is a normal European home model, 220V working happily on a Victron Multiplus ( 3000).....Actually a MultiGrid ....was able to snatch 2 new ones for a steal with 10 year warranty

 

[socalrider]

I would not have one without a vented dryer - had a ventless one in one our rental units - worked ok for a year, then was impossible to keep clear. We had a vented one on our boat and it worked great.

The point here though is that the heat pump tech is fundamentally different from the old school ventless resistance heater tech (which everyone agrees sucks). Heat pumps don't need a vent because the water is condensed out and goes down the drain. The older ventless just pumped the water vapor out into the cabin.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

The point here though is that the heat pump tech is fundamentally different from the old school ventless resistance heater tech (which everyone agrees sucks). Heat pumps don't need a vent because the water is condensed out and goes down the drain. The older ventless just pumped the water vapor out into the cabin.

I understand, but the one we had in our rental unit was a heat pump one - still got clogged up continually.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Certainly makes sense from an engineering perspective. What about from a marine perspective? Can domestic models handle the rigors of boat life?

 

[hollywood8118]

Certainly makes sense from an engineering perspective. What about from a marine perspective? Can domestic models handle the rigors of boat life?

I don't know about yours but mine is just fine on a boat


HW

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I'd say so!