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07-14-2020, 11:18 AM
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#1
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Veteran Member
City: Long Island
Vessel Name: Sea Change
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 77
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Fuel Pricing
Question: what should the differential be between land based gas and that which you buy waterside. Recently I filled my Fishboat with about 100 gallons of regular gas at $3.00 per gallon. On land, at an average gas station on the same day their price was $1.99 equating to 50% increase in cost.
For what its worth the marine gas was Valvtech "certified" whatever that actually means. For perspective, I am located on the South Shore of Long Island about 60 miles east of NYC. There are not many choices of nearby marinas selling fuel so competition is probably a factor. I am sure insurance and EPA requirements drive up the cost but outside of the initial capital expenditure of above ground tanks does it add up to a 50% increase? IMO this is gouging based on a lack of competition or plain ole gouging because its "Marine Gas". Would love to compare across the country....
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07-14-2020, 01:14 PM
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#2
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Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
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Boat fuel prices are competition driven. A lack of competition increases fuel prices.
https://www.waterwayguide.com/fuel-p...2?orderBy=name
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
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07-14-2020, 02:35 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,259
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Also fuel prices can vary a LOT by location. Within 30 miles of me I can find gasoline for anywhere between 4.50 and 3.00. Diesel from 2.20 to 4.50.
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07-14-2020, 02:42 PM
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#4
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
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Our marina has non ethanol gas which is way more stable and will last for years if treated with conditioners each year or so. It is called Rec gas here, for recreational vehicles. I never put ethanol gas in our boats since it can phase separate in a month or two. Ask if they have ethanol free gas or not. If they do have it, it is well worth the extra money.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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07-14-2020, 02:56 PM
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#5
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Guru
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,021
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Selling fuel is a business. The price is influenced by supply and demand. Some sell fuel as a service, but don't really want a lot of sales and their price is high. Others want to draw you to their facilities and their price is low.
High priced fuel often sits a long time and is old fuel, sometimes it sits long enough for many of the additives to have lost their potency. It may be contaminated with water and organisms.
I buy my fuel where commercial boats buy fuel. It has a high turnover and usually discounts for higher volumes.
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07-14-2020, 02:56 PM
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#6
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Guru
City: Satsuma FL
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,300
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Most marinas pump non ethanol. The fuel is also higher octane than regular and the equivalent of premium. I normally buy non ethanol at the local Racetrak for the mower and yard tools and pay a substantial premium for it but it is not the same octane as marine gas.
__________________
Buffalo Bluff Light 28
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07-14-2020, 05:04 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,145
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There is a land bound gas station a couple blocks from my house in Northern Wisconsin. Regular lead free is about $2.00 a gallon. The lead free premium is also ethanol free(I think 91 octane) is almost $4.00 a gallon. Some, like me, buy the premium to use in outboards, chainsaws, and motorcycles and all small engines.
There are a lot of snowmobiles, ATVs, UTVs and various race cars around here which buy the premium either for the higher octane or the ethanol free aspect.
People pay the premium price so they charge it. I don't see it changing anytime soon. Same with marina gas. If you want to save a few bucks, haul your own. (Until the marina sees you do it or you burn your boat down.)
pete
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07-14-2020, 05:14 PM
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#8
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsan
Most marinas pump non ethanol. The fuel is also higher octane than regular and the equivalent of premium. I normally buy non ethanol at the local Racetrak for the mower and yard tools and pay a substantial premium for it but it is not the same octane as marine gas.
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In some places it's only ethanol gas.... be aware and read the pumps.
In NJ I don't think they sell non-ethanol at all.....even in rural gas stations...
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07-14-2020, 06:01 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
City: Florida
Vessel Name: Chez Reagan
Vessel Model: Cargile Cutter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger
There is a land bound gas station a couple blocks from my house in Northern Wisconsin. Regular lead free is about $2.00 a gallon.) The lead free premium is also ethanol free(I think 91 octaneis almost $4.00 a gallon. Some, like me, buy the premium to use in outboards, chainsaws, and motorcycles and all small engines.
There are a lot of snowmobiles, ATVs, UTVs and various race cars around here which buy the premium either for the higher octane or the ethanol free aspect.
People pay the premium price so they charge it. I don't see it changing anytime soon. Same with marina gas. If you want to save a few bucks, haul your own. (Until the marina sees you do it or you burn your boat down.)
pete
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"The lead free premium is also ethanol free(I think 91 octane)" - good point but do you believe your engine runs better on 91 octane fuel? I believe most of our toys state 87 octane as the "go to" fuel. My chainsaw, my lawn tractor, my hurricane generator all say 87 octane and no mention of ethanol.
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07-14-2020, 07:24 PM
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#10
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,738
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I use the 91 octane ethanol free gas for lawn mowers and outboards. Have no use for the 91 octane but it’s only a mile up the road. It should be cheaper .. not more expensive.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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07-14-2020, 11:02 PM
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#11
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Guru
City: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Island
Vessel Name: Capricorn
Vessel Model: Mariner 30 - Sedan Cruiser 1969
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,019
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33 percent increase.
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07-15-2020, 12:28 AM
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#12
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Veteran Member
City: Denver, NC
Vessel Model: Avalon 24'
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 27
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Besides marina's charging more per gallon there's no "highway tax" on it, so they're getting an extra 50 cents or so compared to auto gas stations.
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07-15-2020, 12:43 AM
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#13
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
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If you stop and think about the extra costs involved with marina fuel costs there is a reason it costs more than a gas station. The insurance costs must be astronomical since a spill goes into the water and not on the cement in a gas station. They have to have cleanup material onsite. They almost always have an attendant there compared to a self serve gas station. They still have to maintain their fuel infrastructure on a much volume than a gas station. We used to be at a marina in Arizona that literally over a half mile of piping from shore to the fuel docks, what does that cost? Our current marina has to maintain their systems on a 6 month season of sales. We can all complain about the price but there are some justifiable reasons it is more expensive. Not that I don’t wish it was cheaper but it is what it is...
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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07-15-2020, 05:33 AM
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#14
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Guru
City: Malmö
Vessel Name: ABsolutely FABulous
Vessel Model: Greenline 33 Hybrid (2010)
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,504
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In Scandinavia, the diesel fuel prices seem to be 10-20% more at the dock than at the gas station. I've been told that this is, in part, due to the fact that boats do NOT want diesel with bio-additives. So, there are a lot of extra inventory logistics for low-volume marine diesel.
__________________
Scott
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07-15-2020, 06:23 AM
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#15
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TF Site Team
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,808
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Don't forget just the cost of waterfront property to sell fuel vs land based.
Waterfront taxes.
Limited season (in yours and many locations)
Manned vs self-serve
Different fuel as mentioned
Supply & Demand
All adds up to higher cost.
Some factors favor lower costs
Off road use taxes vs highway
?
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
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07-15-2020, 07:10 AM
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#16
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
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Be cautious in using high test in today's cars.
I ran 91 octane in my motorhome (2019 Ford V10) and it got worse mileage and ran rougher compared with 87.
My son who helps manage a 300 (or so) vehicle fleet....told me today's car computers adjust well enough to 87 Octane and just no reason to use higher unless for the additives which often with good gas at stations,you are better off just running a cleaner, conditioner occasionally.
Small engines I really can't say but my older Yammie 4 stroke 8hp doesn't seem to care either way.
As far as higher costs...well somewhat true to why the prices are all over the map...another reason is some marinas need it to make money and lack of competition allows them to make a handsome profit where some club type marinas do it for convenience and will take a loss/break even on the price as long as they make it up somewhere else.
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07-15-2020, 11:11 AM
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#17
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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Sorry, GlennR, but, unlike dyed diesel fuel, the Federal excise tax on gasoline is the same for both highway use and motorboat use, 18.3 cents/gallon. So, Marina's are not getting over on boaters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR
Besides marina's charging more per gallon there's no "highway tax" on it, so they're getting an extra 50 cents or so compared to auto gas stations.
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07-15-2020, 11:42 AM
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#18
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Guru
City: Northport
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE
Question: what should the differential be between land based gas and that which you buy waterside. Recently I filled my Fishboat with about 100 gallons of regular gas at $3.00 per gallon. On land, at an average gas station on the same day their price was $1.99 equating to 50% increase in cost.
For what its worth the marine gas was Valvtech "certified" whatever that actually means. For perspective, I am located on the South Shore of Long Island about 60 miles east of NYC. There are not many choices of nearby marinas selling fuel so competition is probably a factor. I am sure insurance and EPA requirements drive up the cost but outside of the initial capital expenditure of above ground tanks does it add up to a 50% increase? IMO this is gouging based on a lack of competition or plain ole gouging because its "Marine Gas". Would love to compare across the country....
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We are on Long Island as well - why not just put it on a trailer and fill it up at a land based station?
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07-18-2020, 06:56 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,145
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I buy the 91 octane ethanol free gas for my motorcycles, outboards and all small engines (chainsaws, lawn mower, weed eater, etc) These engines may run better or they may not. To me it does seem they run a bit better but I may be brainwashed.
There are really two reasons I buy the 91, ethanol free gas. A lot of my older small engines have rubber parts which would get eaten up by the ethanol. And I usually fill all my portable tanks at once and sometimes the supply lasts well into the winter. I just feel the ethanol free gas keeps its octane rating higher, longer that the lower octane gas with ethanol in it.
I may be totally wrong but it works for me and it is a very small part of my gas/fuel annual expense.
pete
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07-19-2020, 11:23 AM
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#20
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Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinajack
Sorry, GlennR, but, unlike dyed diesel fuel, the Federal excise tax on gasoline is the same for both highway use and motorboat use, 18.3 cents/gallon. So, Marina's are not getting over on boaters.
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Marine fuel tax varies from state to state. From my years running charters in Maryland, there is a state tax on marine fuel along with the federal tax, but then the total is subject to state retail sales tax. So yes, you get to pay sales tax on federal and state tax.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
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