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Old 07-14-2020, 11:18 AM   #1
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Fuel Pricing

Question: what should the differential be between land based gas and that which you buy waterside. Recently I filled my Fishboat with about 100 gallons of regular gas at $3.00 per gallon. On land, at an average gas station on the same day their price was $1.99 equating to 50% increase in cost.
For what its worth the marine gas was Valvtech "certified" whatever that actually means. For perspective, I am located on the South Shore of Long Island about 60 miles east of NYC. There are not many choices of nearby marinas selling fuel so competition is probably a factor. I am sure insurance and EPA requirements drive up the cost but outside of the initial capital expenditure of above ground tanks does it add up to a 50% increase? IMO this is gouging based on a lack of competition or plain ole gouging because its "Marine Gas". Would love to compare across the country....
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Old 07-14-2020, 01:14 PM   #2
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Boat fuel prices are competition driven. A lack of competition increases fuel prices.

https://www.waterwayguide.com/fuel-p...2?orderBy=name

Ted
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Old 07-14-2020, 02:35 PM   #3
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Also fuel prices can vary a LOT by location. Within 30 miles of me I can find gasoline for anywhere between 4.50 and 3.00. Diesel from 2.20 to 4.50.
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Old 07-14-2020, 02:42 PM   #4
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Our marina has non ethanol gas which is way more stable and will last for years if treated with conditioners each year or so. It is called Rec gas here, for recreational vehicles. I never put ethanol gas in our boats since it can phase separate in a month or two. Ask if they have ethanol free gas or not. If they do have it, it is well worth the extra money.
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Old 07-14-2020, 02:56 PM   #5
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Selling fuel is a business. The price is influenced by supply and demand. Some sell fuel as a service, but don't really want a lot of sales and their price is high. Others want to draw you to their facilities and their price is low.
High priced fuel often sits a long time and is old fuel, sometimes it sits long enough for many of the additives to have lost their potency. It may be contaminated with water and organisms.
I buy my fuel where commercial boats buy fuel. It has a high turnover and usually discounts for higher volumes.
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Old 07-14-2020, 02:56 PM   #6
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Most marinas pump non ethanol. The fuel is also higher octane than regular and the equivalent of premium. I normally buy non ethanol at the local Racetrak for the mower and yard tools and pay a substantial premium for it but it is not the same octane as marine gas.
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Old 07-14-2020, 05:04 PM   #7
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There is a land bound gas station a couple blocks from my house in Northern Wisconsin. Regular lead free is about $2.00 a gallon. The lead free premium is also ethanol free(I think 91 octane) is almost $4.00 a gallon. Some, like me, buy the premium to use in outboards, chainsaws, and motorcycles and all small engines.

There are a lot of snowmobiles, ATVs, UTVs and various race cars around here which buy the premium either for the higher octane or the ethanol free aspect.

People pay the premium price so they charge it. I don't see it changing anytime soon. Same with marina gas. If you want to save a few bucks, haul your own. (Until the marina sees you do it or you burn your boat down.)

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Old 07-14-2020, 05:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsan View Post
Most marinas pump non ethanol. The fuel is also higher octane than regular and the equivalent of premium. I normally buy non ethanol at the local Racetrak for the mower and yard tools and pay a substantial premium for it but it is not the same octane as marine gas.

In some places it's only ethanol gas.... be aware and read the pumps.


In NJ I don't think they sell non-ethanol at all.....even in rural gas stations...
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Old 07-14-2020, 06:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
There is a land bound gas station a couple blocks from my house in Northern Wisconsin. Regular lead free is about $2.00 a gallon.) The lead free premium is also ethanol free(I think 91 octaneis almost $4.00 a gallon. Some, like me, buy the premium to use in outboards, chainsaws, and motorcycles and all small engines.

There are a lot of snowmobiles, ATVs, UTVs and various race cars around here which buy the premium either for the higher octane or the ethanol free aspect.

People pay the premium price so they charge it. I don't see it changing anytime soon. Same with marina gas. If you want to save a few bucks, haul your own. (Until the marina sees you do it or you burn your boat down.)

pete
"The lead free premium is also ethanol free(I think 91 octane)" - good point but do you believe your engine runs better on 91 octane fuel? I believe most of our toys state 87 octane as the "go to" fuel. My chainsaw, my lawn tractor, my hurricane generator all say 87 octane and no mention of ethanol.
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Old 07-14-2020, 07:24 PM   #10
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I use the 91 octane ethanol free gas for lawn mowers and outboards. Have no use for the 91 octane but it’s only a mile up the road. It should be cheaper .. not more expensive.
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Old 07-14-2020, 11:02 PM   #11
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33 percent increase.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:28 AM   #12
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Besides marina's charging more per gallon there's no "highway tax" on it, so they're getting an extra 50 cents or so compared to auto gas stations.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:43 AM   #13
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If you stop and think about the extra costs involved with marina fuel costs there is a reason it costs more than a gas station. The insurance costs must be astronomical since a spill goes into the water and not on the cement in a gas station. They have to have cleanup material onsite. They almost always have an attendant there compared to a self serve gas station. They still have to maintain their fuel infrastructure on a much volume than a gas station. We used to be at a marina in Arizona that literally over a half mile of piping from shore to the fuel docks, what does that cost? Our current marina has to maintain their systems on a 6 month season of sales. We can all complain about the price but there are some justifiable reasons it is more expensive. Not that I don’t wish it was cheaper but it is what it is...
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Old 07-15-2020, 05:33 AM   #14
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In Scandinavia, the diesel fuel prices seem to be 10-20% more at the dock than at the gas station. I've been told that this is, in part, due to the fact that boats do NOT want diesel with bio-additives. So, there are a lot of extra inventory logistics for low-volume marine diesel.
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Old 07-15-2020, 06:23 AM   #15
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Don't forget just the cost of waterfront property to sell fuel vs land based.
Waterfront taxes.
Limited season (in yours and many locations)
Manned vs self-serve
Different fuel as mentioned
Supply & Demand

All adds up to higher cost.

Some factors favor lower costs
Off road use taxes vs highway
?
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Old 07-15-2020, 07:10 AM   #16
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Be cautious in using high test in today's cars.


I ran 91 octane in my motorhome (2019 Ford V10) and it got worse mileage and ran rougher compared with 87.


My son who helps manage a 300 (or so) vehicle fleet....told me today's car computers adjust well enough to 87 Octane and just no reason to use higher unless for the additives which often with good gas at stations,you are better off just running a cleaner, conditioner occasionally.


Small engines I really can't say but my older Yammie 4 stroke 8hp doesn't seem to care either way.


As far as higher costs...well somewhat true to why the prices are all over the map...another reason is some marinas need it to make money and lack of competition allows them to make a handsome profit where some club type marinas do it for convenience and will take a loss/break even on the price as long as they make it up somewhere else.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:11 AM   #17
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Sorry, GlennR, but, unlike dyed diesel fuel, the Federal excise tax on gasoline is the same for both highway use and motorboat use, 18.3 cents/gallon. So, Marina's are not getting over on boaters.
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Besides marina's charging more per gallon there's no "highway tax" on it, so they're getting an extra 50 cents or so compared to auto gas stations.
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Old 07-15-2020, 11:42 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE View Post
Question: what should the differential be between land based gas and that which you buy waterside. Recently I filled my Fishboat with about 100 gallons of regular gas at $3.00 per gallon. On land, at an average gas station on the same day their price was $1.99 equating to 50% increase in cost.
For what its worth the marine gas was Valvtech "certified" whatever that actually means. For perspective, I am located on the South Shore of Long Island about 60 miles east of NYC. There are not many choices of nearby marinas selling fuel so competition is probably a factor. I am sure insurance and EPA requirements drive up the cost but outside of the initial capital expenditure of above ground tanks does it add up to a 50% increase? IMO this is gouging based on a lack of competition or plain ole gouging because its "Marine Gas". Would love to compare across the country....
We are on Long Island as well - why not just put it on a trailer and fill it up at a land based station?
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Old 07-18-2020, 06:56 PM   #19
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I buy the 91 octane ethanol free gas for my motorcycles, outboards and all small engines (chainsaws, lawn mower, weed eater, etc) These engines may run better or they may not. To me it does seem they run a bit better but I may be brainwashed.

There are really two reasons I buy the 91, ethanol free gas. A lot of my older small engines have rubber parts which would get eaten up by the ethanol. And I usually fill all my portable tanks at once and sometimes the supply lasts well into the winter. I just feel the ethanol free gas keeps its octane rating higher, longer that the lower octane gas with ethanol in it.

I may be totally wrong but it works for me and it is a very small part of my gas/fuel annual expense.

pete
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Old 07-19-2020, 11:23 AM   #20
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Sorry, GlennR, but, unlike dyed diesel fuel, the Federal excise tax on gasoline is the same for both highway use and motorboat use, 18.3 cents/gallon. So, Marina's are not getting over on boaters.
Marine fuel tax varies from state to state. From my years running charters in Maryland, there is a state tax on marine fuel along with the federal tax, but then the total is subject to state retail sales tax. So yes, you get to pay sales tax on federal and state tax.

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