Electric Boats

[Bob Cofer]

Nice design by Sam Devlin. Is this the future?

[boathealer]

That's what I would do with the TT35 if I were to buy one of those.

[Fletcher500]

Interesting to see how the clean energy boats develop. I was on a Hybrid at a boat show last year.

With that said, A single, Tier 3 diesel is also fairly green.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Fletcher500

Interesting to see how the clean energy boats develop. I was on a Hybrid at a boat show last year.

With that said, A single, Tier 3 diesel is also fairly green.

Hinckley is introducing the Dasher. More like a limo boat or oversized tender. It's 28'. They're showing it at FLIBS. The reports I've gotten have been mostly, "Why?" Not bad for the canals and ICW. Range at 8-9 knots is 35 nm and at 20-22 knots is 20-22 nm.



And the transom I don't like on it or any other boat.

[Benthic2]

I would not bet on them selling a lot of them. I suppose you could have them as the tender to your mega yacht, but that seems like such a small market.
Great transom for landing a fish, I guess...or diving.....not typical Hinkley-ish activities though. A following sea is going to get the captain's $500 Italian leather loafters all wet.

Hinkley has made so many models that are just the pinacle of beauty afloat that I guess they can afford a miss once in a while. Their picnic boat is, for me, the most beautiful boat ever.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Benthic2

I would not bet on them selling a lot of them. I suppose you could have them as the tender to your mega yacht, but that seems like such a small market.
Great transom for landing a fish, I guess...or diving.....not typical Hinkley-ish activities though. A following sea is going to get the captain's $500 Italian leather loafters all wet.

Hinkley has made so many models that are just the pinacle of beauty afloat that I guess they can afford a miss once in a while. Their picnic boat is, for me, the most beautiful boat ever.

Something tells me one of their customers asked for it. They may sell one if that's the case. I could see it for cruising the Fort Lauderdale Canals, the same thing some have bought Duffy's to do. I'm sure it fits a need, but I haven't identified what need yet.

Oh, and one point too about the transom. The boat is very noisy as a result when one of the beauties of electric is quiet. But not quiet when you're hearing your wake.

Where Mega Yachts have to anchor often you need a seaworthy tender to carry people to and from. In that size range you can buy a lot more boat than it is.

[Benthic2]

The upside is the more fully electric boats that hit the market....the better off the consure is. The first electric cars weren't great...but they were stepping stones to better vehicles. I'm hoping e-boat evolution is the same way.

I surprised they don't have some sort of swim platform that folds up to a transom like a pickup truck tailgate.

Its probably a great boat, but the asthetics are all wrong for me. I am usually a practical guy and prefer function over form....but Hinkleys, with the pronounced tumblehome and sloped sheerline reach me on some visceral level that I can't explain, and this boat doesn't have that. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I'm sure someone will love it.

[FF]

"I surprised they don't have some sort of swim platform that folds up to a transom like a pickup truck tailgate."

I have always thought the tailgate would make a great platform to access the boat , and a very simple method of carrying the dink, just drive it up into the cockpit .

On an electric boat with limited range and speed the dink pushing could be the second engine to operate between daily solar charges.

[markpierce]

Where's the gotta-have-to-have pilothouse?! ... Is it just a sunny-day, day-boat or does it have lots of batteries?

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by BandB

Hinckley is introducing the Dasher. More like a limo boat or oversized tender. It's 28'. They're showing it at FLIBS. The reports I've gotten have been mostly, "Why?" Not bad for the canals and ICW. Range at 8-9 knots is 35 nm and at 20-22 knots is 20-22 nm.

Attachment 70011

And the transom I don't like on it or any other boat.

I much prefer the 1960-70s sailboat designs from Hinckley. The company has definitely devolved (or is it their anticipated customers?).

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by BandB

Hinckley is introducing the Dasher. More like a limo boat or oversized tender. It's 28'. They're showing it at FLIBS. The reports I've gotten have been mostly, "Why?" Not bad for the canals and ICW. Range at 8-9 knots is 35 nm and at 20-22 knots is 20-22 nm.

Attachment 70011

And the transom I don't like on it or any other boat.

Watching a boat's wake can be stupifying. But don't pass out and drop through the absent transom.

[Genecop]

https://www.trondheimtrawlers.com/trondheim-43

[DavidM]

Originally Posted by Bob Cofer

Nice design by Sam Devlin. Is this the future?

Let's do some engineering analysis on that design:

Looks like there are 18 solar panels on that boat and lets be generous and call them 300 watts each. So at lower latitudes, midday in the summer those panels will produce 18*300 = 5,400 watts. But on average for a six hour day of cruising from 10:00 to 4:00 they will produce a bit more than half of that or 3,000 watts.

That 3,000 watts with a very efficient motor will produce a bit more than 3 hp. I have a three hp outboard. I suspect it will push that 45' hull at a couple of knots at best. The electric motor will be more efficient at propulsion than my outboard, so let's call it three knots.

Solar powered boats have crossed the Atlantic, but one I am familiar with, the Sun 21, is a 42' catamaran which has double the panel area of the one under discussion and weighs about half. It averaged 5 kts (during daylight of course) on the crossing.

So solar powered boats might work, but they need to be efficient and light weight cats or tris to do it. Not this normal looking monohull.

David

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Genecop

https://www.trondheimtrawlers.com/trondheim-43

A concept isn't it? Not a real boat having been built?

[Nomad Willy]

Sure it’s the future ..
Well maybe only 99% sure.
A surprising fuel source may step in and displace both diesel and electric.
But not likely.

Most seem to think e this and e that is either here or right around the corner. I disagree. E power for boats and cars exists today but not in a cost effective way. I don’t think people buy Toyota Prius’s to save fuel money on fuel. I don’t think they do save money on fuel.

People buy e things as a political and/or social expression. The Tesla car is a good example. People want to be seen “leading the way” for “other people” because they see themselves as leaders. There’s a bit of criticism in my opinion and there probably are some e things that are cost effective but very few IMO.

I think diesel, gasoline and others like propane and natural gas will still be our prime movers for several decades or more. In the 60’s we thought we’d have regular flights back and forth between outposts on the moon and Mars. Takes time. So will a power revolution.

[Bob Cofer]

The world is flat, automobiles will never replace horses, the speed of sound is absolute, mankind cannot live in space...you can’t start a journey without the first step. Maybe this will work and maybe it won’t, going to be fun to watch.

[DavidM]

Eric:

Yes, you are right. But different people have different motivations.

We have two cars: one a practical mid size SUV that will tow our camper nicely as well as carry big stuff from the big box store. But last year we bought a convertible Mini for fun. We drive it around town and rarely go more than 30 miles from home. That profile is perfect for a plug in electric car.

So when that one wears out (or I crash it more likely) I would consider the new Tesla Model 3 for about $35,000 before incentives. After incentives (if this crazy tax bill doesn't pass or otherwise gets eliminated) it will cost the same as the Mini. And it is a really nice looking car.

So lets compare fuel cost for the Mini and the Tesla. We used the Mini for 8,000 miles this past year and averaged 35 MPG. Not bad. So gas cost about $600 which in the grand scheme of things isn't so much.

Figuring cost of recharging at home is a little more difficult, but let me give it a try. Our Mini averaged 35 MPG at an average speed of 35 MPH (those electronics are good for something!!), so it burned 1 gallon per hour. Since most gasoline engines make about 12 hp per gph of fuel that means it was making 12 hp on average for one year.

So, lets assume 15 for the Tesla as it is a little heavier (but it is more aerodynamic than the Mini). The theoretical (no efficiency adjustments, bear with me for later) power requirement is then (15*.745)*(8000/35)= 2,600 KWH all supplied from my home's electrical system. Figuring efficiency is a little tougher. Let's assume that the charging system is 95% efficient; it takes 100 watt hours of charging to add 90 watt hours to the battery (Peukert's factor applied to lithium batteries); and that the motor is 85% efficient. So multiplying all of those factors through gives a gross of 3,800 watt hours.

At our house we pay the second highest KW cost in the country, about 18 cents/KW, so that much power will cost me $684 each year, a bit more than gas for the Mini. Where we used to live would cost about $400 per year.

Who knows what the maintenance requirements will be. I suspect Tesla offers a maintenance/warranty program for five years. We will see how long their batteries last. I wouldn't count on anything more than ten years. I can't imagine the electric motor failing, but electronics sure can. But so can those in the Mini. So lets call maintenance a wash.

So the new Tesla does seem competitive with the MIni for short range driving.

Does it save the planet? Well probably some. Most power is now made in the US from natural gas with a cogeneration cycle that turns 45-50% of the energy in the gas to KWs and produces 20% less CO2 than equivalent liquid fuels. But then you have all of the efficiency factors above to add in. As a wild ass calculation, the overall cycle is .45*.95*.9*.85 = 33% efficient. That is better than a gasoline engine which is in the mid 20s plus the CO2 production benefit of 20%.

So yes I would consider buying a Tesla for $28,000 net, pay about the same for electricity as gasoline, save about 30-40% of the CO2 I would otherwise dump in the atmosphere and have a very nice looking car to impress the neighbors with.

But an electric boat?? Not to cruise in. But maybe for the same operating profile as the Tesla above- putting around within 5 miles of the marina. Duffy sells them for that purpose.

David

[Hamrow]

Greenline has been doing this hull form with hybrid power since about 2009, plus someone asked about a "tailgate"; Greenline has this too, you can see it operate partway into the video of the Greenline 40, that is if you can tear your eyes away from the youngster they've hired to help promote the product in the video
We actually looked at these at a couple boat shows but we weren't ready to make this leap. One scary thing with the complex hybrid system is how do you maintain this thing or how big is the repair bill if you can even find a shop that can work on it....?
However I will say we talked to a new buyer of the 40 and (We didn't know this was an option) he had one built without the electric motors and ran strictly on conventional Volvo Penta. He seemed very happy with it and though it was 100% diesel, he claimed because of the hull, it was still extremely efficient...

[Benthic2]

[QUOTE=djmarchand;607100

Solar powered boats have crossed the Atlantic, but one I am familiar with, the Sun 21, is a 42' catamaran which has double the panel area of the one under discussion and weighs about half. It averaged 5 kts (during daylight of course) on the crossing.

So solar powered boats might work, but they need to be efficient and light weight cats or tris to do it. Not this normal looking monohull.

David[/QUOTE]

Are you saying a boat is no good if it can't cross the Atlantic ?

[Genecop]

Originally Posted by BandB

A concept isn't it? Not a real boat having been built?

I wrote them and inquired about Hull #1 completion, in broken English they said " 6-8 months after I give a deposit of 25%...