Ballast (again)

[angus99]

We have a noticeable list due to galley, A/C equipment and large house bank located on the port side. I can correct by adjusting tank levels but at some point we lose a fair amount of fuel/water capacity to list-correcting.

I’ve read some of the archived threads but would appreciate knowing the options available for adding ballast to a ~55,000-lb full/semi-displacement hull. Some of you use lead shot. I’m not crazy about having 100,000 tiny pieces of a hazardous substance aboard so how do you encapsulate or secure it? For those with lead ingots, how do you restrain it? (Love to see photos.). Also, where can you get lead in quantity?

Sand, is apparently another option; I don’t like to think of the mess if a bag breaks. What else should I be considering?

Thanks in advance.

 

[SteveK]

can the battery bank be moved to SB? I would be looking at redistribution before addition

 

[mvweebles]

Here you go..... $1.79/lb delivered (1000-lb pallet)

https://www.rotometals.com/pallet-lead-ingots-99-9-1000-pounds-freight-included/

I assume you will locate the lead along outer parts of boat - under side decks, etc. Some sort of metal band on each end to capture the 'ear' on the lead pigs.

Good luck - Peter

 

[Portage_Bay]

I’m not crazy about having 100,000 tiny pieces of a hazardous substance aboard so how do you encapsulate or secure it? For those with lead ingots, how do you restrain it?

What about encapsulating the shot in epoxy? The shot will stay put and you will be insulated from the health risks once it's in place.

 

[mvweebles]

What about encapsulating the shot in epoxy? The shot will stay put and you will be insulated from the health risks once it's in place.

I went through this thought process last year when I removed about 1000 lbs of concrete ballast and replaced with lead. But this was low, in the keel. I thought about putting ingots down and lead-shot to fill-in the spaces, then spray-foam insulation. In the end, I just used the brick-sized ingots and glass-over a cover plate without further securing.

But that was for pure ballast deep in a keel, not trim-ballast that would be under the side-decks. That ballast may need to be moved so a removable fastening is strongly advised. No way to do this with shot, and the lead-pigs are made for this. They have 'ears' where a band can be wrapped. Some have holes and can be lag-bolted down.

Peter

 

[Redhook98]

A buddy of mine bought a NavyYard Patrol Craft (YP-655). I grabbed about 3000lb worth of lead ingots off of it. Compensation for all the tankage removed from my boat. I traded a few things for the ingots. Corrected a 1.5 inch list to port.

 

[O C Diver]

This is what I did:

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=403722&postcount=332

Ended up with I believe 20 plates (700 lbs.) double stacked out and fastened to the starboard hull resting on the saloon floor. Pretty easy to encapsulate lead with a vinyl coating if you feel it necessary.

Ted

 

[C lectric]

Much smaller boat but I went for 3 x 65# ingots with the tabs moulded on the ends.
Took out about 80% of my list. Redistribution helped but was not enough.

I had planned to secure them in place. I will do it but it will be a plywood platform which is itself glassed to the hull and then the ingots bolted to the platform.

 

[O C Diver]

Back when I use to own a scuba diving store, the lead king was a guy who owned Sea Perls. 200 pounds (<$200) was freight free anywhere in the USA via UPS. 50 pounds fit in a box about 10" x 8" x 4". UPS loved him, lots of weight in a very small space. His daily pick up was with tractor trailers. He had a railroad siding as his lead was delivered by train. The good old days.

Anyway, the company is still in business but they generally sell wholesale. They do cast weight for other industries. You may be able to work out a deal for boat ballast. If you want it vinyl coated, get the lace through style instead of the pass through as it has more coating where the belt goes through. If you plan to go down this road, know what size and how much you want before calling or emailing. The coated weights are available in increments up to 12 pounds.

https://www.seapearls.com/

Ted

 

[Lepke]

Whatever you do, make sure the ballast can't move, even in extreme circumstances.
Many ships and boats have been lost to shifting ballast.

 

[Comodave]

We put about 1000 pounds of lead ballast in a previous boat. We bought it in 65 pound ingots, I think. Laid it in place and then glassed over it so it would not move and also to encapsulate the lead in case there were some small pieces of it that came loose they wouldn’t get all over. Worked great.

 

[twistedtree]

I’ve always seen ingots used, buttered with 5200, and stacked in place.

 

[angus99]

Thanks, all, for the good counsel. The house bank can’t be moved, unfortunately. Orders of magnitude more disruption to the ER and electrical systems than I want to deal with. Pigs with ears seem the way to go, but first I need to get some heavy folks to stand on the starboard gunwale to see how much ballast is actually needed. Also, I remembered I have a friend who owns a foundry who will see if he has some suitable material. I’ll post what I finally go with.

 

[Comodave]

I did it to a 46’ trawler with a 16’ beam. It took way more lead than I thought it would to make a difference. Good plan with some friends to see how much you need. But you will have to get them to tell you their actual weights…

 

[C lectric]

5 gal pails filled with water will also be a good source of weights.

 

[angus99]

5 gal pails filled with water will also be a good source of weights.

Thanks for the idea. At 40 lbs or so per pail, though, that would take up a lot of space.

 

[BruceK]

I`ve available 11 bars of lead marked with the letter "M" removed from a previous boat. They were unrestrained and presumably balancing something the PO had onboard, or maybe the PO who I heard was quite large. Removing them corrected a modest list. Guessing they weigh about 20-25kg each. Free, but freight could be a consideration.....

 

[AZ2Loop]

can the battery bank be moved to SB? I would be looking at redistribution before addition

I agree. If not the battery bank, look for other options if you have not already exhausted this possibility. Removing weight from the "heavy" side is great, but redistributing is even better and results come quickly. Every item redistributed not only makes the heavy side lighter, but the lighter side heavier for very fast results, and you still keep the item on board. I looked for every opportunity to redistribute. It worked. No ballast added, and no list at all now. Adding ballast would have been easier, but I much preferred the redistribution approach.

 

[SteveK]

Thanks for the idea. At 40 lbs or so per pail, though, that would take up a lot of space.

On that note what about a water bladder, dual purpose use. Can always list until refill.

 

[Jeff F]

On that note what about a water bladder, dual purpose use. Can always list until refill.

I was thinking that as well. A reserve tank, normally kept full, installed on the high side.

 

[Bmarler]

the wakeboard folks are all about the water ballast. i looked at different ballast options for a long time for my old boat. water is certainly the cheapest.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FBQ88J...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

there's steel shot bags too, but a bit more expensive per pound
https://wakelife.co/products/10-wak...vkDupshZdU828jDfaRxFLIIBBUyeWN-waArIfEALw_wcB

also look at aircraft ballast, they use rubber ingots frequently.
in the end, for my situation, i cut up rubber horse mats from tractor supply. cheapest price per pound for solid ballast i could come up with. i needed a lot as i was replacing the old sand bags that i hated.

i'm wrestling with what i'm going to use on my new boat. i'm leaning toward water bags or shot bags so they conform to the shape i have available.

 

[Jeff F]

My sailboat has port and starboard water ballast tanks, and can be heeled about 15 degrees at rest by filling one side. Pretty neat, but overkill for the case at hand.

On my power boat I've found that keeping one fuel tank more full than the other is enough to trim out the static imbalance. When I fill up or both tanks are empty there is a list, but the majority of the time is spent between those two states, and I draw fuel from the low tank according to my inclinometer, switching back and forth as required to maintain the boat trim.

 

[angus99]

Thanks again for all the replies, folks.

To clarify, this boat can displace somewhere between 55,000 and 60,000 lbs when fully loaded, so carrying a few hundred pounds of ballast securely will be meaningless.

The only workable space I have for installing ballast well outboard is a cavity behind the saloon wall and running most of the length of it. It’s far enough outboard that I should get a lot of bang for the buck with any weight I install. (another option would be resting ballast on top of the Stbd water tank, but . . . nah.)

Moving the house bank is really not an option I’m willing to consider. As I noted earlier, it would require the reconfiguration of too many components as well as my oil change and fuel transfer systems. Not gonna do that.

The problem exists because of equipment that was added over the years by POs and myself, so correcting the list with more added weight (ballast) doesn’t seem unnatural to me. My addition of a house bank, while heavy, is almost the same weight as the generator on the stbd side and is only three feet outboard of the keel centerline and well below the waterline, so I don’t think the house bank is a major contributor to the list. In fact, the boat had to be corrected for a slight list when we bought her—which is only incrementally worse with the repositioned house bank.

I’ll post my solution when I eventually choose one.

 

[angus99]

I`ve available 11 bars of lead marked with the letter "M" removed from a previous boat. They were unrestrained and presumably balancing something the PO had onboard, or maybe the PO who I heard was quite large. Removing them corrected a modest list. Guessing they weigh about 20-25kg each. Free, but freight could be a consideration.....

Thanks very much for the offer, Bruce. Next time you’re coming to the northern hemisphere could you check them along with the rest of your luggage? (Might be too heavy for the overhead.) I’ll even meet you at Ground Transportation to pick them up.

 

[catalinajack]

We have a noticeable list due to galley, A/C equipment and large house bank located on the port side. I can correct by adjusting tank levels but at some point we lose a fair amount of fuel/water capacity to list-correcting.



I’ve read some of the archived threads but would appreciate knowing the options available for adding ballast to a ~55,000-lb full/semi-displacement hull. Some of you use lead shot. I’m not crazy about having 100,000 tiny pieces of a hazardous substance aboard so how do you encapsulate or secure it? For those with lead ingots, how do you restrain it? (Love to see photos.). Also, where can you get lead in quantity?



Sand, is apparently another option; I don’t like to think of the mess if a bag breaks. What else should I be considering?



Thanks in advance.

Ian, I guess you know that I use 25# bags of lead shot as movable ballast. The bags are very sturdy and are moved quite infrequently. I now have our DeFever 44 balanced quite nicely and only have to move a few bags when something significant in weight has been added or subtracted. I stuff them all the way back in the aft hanging lockers out of the way where they absolutely cannot shift no matter the cruise conditions. Sure, the heavy synthetic canvas bags in which the shot is packed may (perhaps) someday dry rot but that day is likely decades away, if ever. Plus, the lead being in bags, moving them is fairly easy and at will. If you permanently secure ballast, the next time a weight change is made, well, you get it.

You have a DeFever 44. As you know, the port and starboard fuel and water tanks are identical in size and shape. Fill your water tanks with the crossover closed. Fill your fuel tanks to the same level with supply valves closed. Move the 25# bags from side to side until the the boat is balanced. Adjust as necessary from time-to-time. Once you have the boat balanced using this method you won't have to mess around moving fuel from one tank to another. If you don't like the idea of lead shot in bags, then get yourself some lead ingots. Trust me, placed where I do, wedged in place, that lead is NOT going to move, ever. Don't overthink this.

 

[angus99]

Ian, I guess you know that I use 25# bags of lead shot as movable ballast. The bags are very sturdy and are moved quite infrequently. I now have our DeFever 44 balanced quite nicely and only have to move a few bags when something significant in weight has been added or subtracted. I stuff them all the way back in the aft hanging lockers out of the way where they absolutely cannot shift no matter the cruise conditions. Sure, the heavy synthetic canvas bags in which the shot is packed may (perhaps) someday dry rot but that day is likely decades away, if ever. Plus, the lead being in bags, moving them is fairly easy and at will. If you permanently secure ballast, the next time a weight change is made, well, you get it.

You have a DeFever 44. As you know, the port and starboard fuel and water tanks are identical in size and shape. Fill your water tanks with the crossover closed. Fill your fuel tanks to the same level with supply valves closed. Move the 25# bags from side to side until the the boat is balanced. Adjust as necessary from time-to-time. Once you have the boat balanced using this method you won't have to mess around moving fuel from one tank to another. If you don't like the idea of lead shot in bags, then get yourself some lead ingots. Trust me, placed where I do, wedged in place, that lead is NOT going to move, ever. Don't overthink this.

Thanks, John. Always a fine line for me between thinking and over-thinking .

If I go with lead, it will be ingots. As I noted above, I’m leaning toward the cavity behind the reefers on the starboard saloon wall. Good access and it puts the weight as high and far outboard as I can carry it. (Also, I don’t need any more weight aft since I’m now hanging a dinghy off the transom.) Like your location, once I secure it there, it’s going nowhere.

 

[Jeff F]

Fill your water tanks with the crossover closed. Fill your fuel tanks to the same level with supply valves closed. Move the 25# bags from side to side until the the boat is balanced. Adjust as necessary from time-to-time. Once you have the boat balanced using this method you won't have to mess around moving fuel from one tank to another.

This would require you leave the crossovers open all the time and allow the tanks to self level as you draw down, if I understand you correctly.

 

[SteveK]

This would require you leave the crossovers open all the time and allow the tanks to self level as you draw down, if I understand you correctly.

I understood it to mean leave them closed until it is level so they are not self leveling while you are adding ballast.

 

[Jeff F]

I understood it to mean leave them closed until it is level so they are not self leveling while you are adding ballast.

Right, but what happens as you start drawing down the tanks? Either you let them self level by leaving the crossover open and rely on the initial trim 100% of the time, or you take over the role of maintaining trim by selecting the appropriate tank to draw from as you consume fuel/water.

If you do the latter, the initial trim doesn't matter once you start consuming. At anything less than full tanks, the trim is dictated by the relative tank levels, not the ballast.

A lot of the decision to ballast is based on this, it seems to me. My boat requires that I keep one fuel tank 1/4 tank fuller than the other to maintain trim. I have a single centerline water tank. But since I always draw (and return) from a single fuel tank and don't have any crossover, in practice there are only two times when I'm out of trim - when both tanks are full and when both tanks are empty.

The empty case is easy - in practice I fill up before I'm at 1/8 total capacity (one tank empty, one at 1/4 full) so it never happens. If it does I accept it as temporary while I look for a refueling opportunity.

When both tanks are full I'm out of trim until I use 1/8 of capacity. That's where ballast would help. But in practice that's the only time it would help. The rest of the time it serves no useful purpose.

So in my case there are 3 possible courses of action:

1) add ballast and be balanced at full tanks, recognizing that the ballast is redundant once I'm below 7/8 capacity

2) limit fill-up to 7/8 capacity (one tank full, one tank 3/4 full) and always be balanced

3) fill both tanks and be out of trim until I use 1/8 capacity by drawing down one to 3/4.

I go with option 3, because it doesn't take long for me to burn the first 1/8 of capacity, so I live with the trim imbalance during that period. But option 2 seems viable as well.

This isn't an argument against leveling the boat. I wish mine was better balanced. But in my use case the ballasting would only make a difference when I'm carrying more than 7/8 of my fuel capacity. I'm not jumping to make changes based on that.

 

[SteveK]

I understood it to mean leave them closed until it is level so they are not self leveling while you are adding ballast.

I think I meant to say is leave crossover closed until ballast is added to make level, then open crossover to work as designed to self level as used.