2100 Hrs on R29 w/Diesel Yanmar - Should I Run?

[CountryBTr]

Hi - Looking at a private sale for a 2010 Ranger R29 with 2200 hours on the clock for its Yanmar 6BY2-260 diesel engine. It's a 1 owner boat - looks to be decently maintained, all mtce records are available. Of course - will do a marine survey and sea trial before purchase if I decided to move ahead?

I know generally diesel engines can go thousands of hours more than say a Mercury gas engine. It seems to me that any boat with 2200 hours will have seen a decent amount of use, vibration, stress on structure, etc.

Is something like this with these higher hours even still worth considering? For other high hour diesel owners - should I be concerned?

FYI - I've been in boating a few years so understand about regular mtce, inspections, etc.

 

[alormaria]

2200 hours on a diesel is not a lot.

 

[tiltrider1]

The boat is 13 years old and has seen an average of 170 hour per year. While that’s more than the average 100 hours per year it is not an excessive number of hours for a Yanmar diesel. Apparently this boat has either done the loop or gone to Alaska and back. This means the boat has been properly sorted out. I wouldn’t be afraid of the boat just By those numbers.

I would use those numbers to pay less than a 1300 hour boat and enjoy the savings.

 

[Comodave]

That isn’t a high hour engine as far as a diesel engine IMO. But it all depends on how it was taken care of. A diesel with a few hundred hours can be ruined or one with thousands of hours can be in great condition.

 

[CountryBTr]

Thx - I think I'm less concerned about the engine wear and more about the overall boat hours? Are there a lot of 2200+ hour trawlers in the market? I have no feel for how much or little the trawler high hour boats come up? I've never paid much attention to this boat segment in the past....

 

[CountryBTr]

The boat is 13 years old and has seen an average of 170 hour per year. While that’s more than the average 100 hours per year it is not an excessive number of hours for a Yanmar diesel. Apparently this boat has either done the loop or gone to Alaska and back. This means the boat has been properly sorted out. I wouldn’t be afraid of the boat just By those numbers.

I would use those numbers to pay less than a 1300 hour boat and enjoy the savings.

Hi -just to clarify. Boat was used 10 yrs - last few not much due to being an older owner. Figure more like 220 hrs/yr used in reality. Not horrible tho...

 

[BruceK]

From previous threads about an R27 there is an owners association,The TugNuts • Home. You might get some information there.
Hours can vary enormously but you are right, the whole boat has 2200 hrs use. From previous info on TF, the Yanmar 6cyl (?6LY) has a big service at 1000 hrs, maybe it`s every 1000, so check that. Vague recall they are higher rpm engines, others here will know more, ? effect on longevity.
Price should reflect higher hours, there are less unused hours to sell. The owner must have liked using it, that`s a plus.
Seems you are checking and thinking about the right issues. Survey thoroughly, hope it goes well.

 

[Comodave]

In general, boats that are used are in better condition than dock queens. They get more servicing. Things can break from disuse. The can also break from use but tend to be fixed on frequently used boats.

 

[draakken]

the engine age doesn't scare me off, but there are lots of other things, hoses for instance that really don't have much more than a 10 year life, that either need to be replaced, or have recently been replaced.



Done/not-done age maintenance items may factor heavily into the price. I've heard that rangers are very compactly built and service can often require more disassembly than a larger boat due to how efficiently the builder packed the systems in, which adds to the labor cost of the job

 

[Iggy]

2200 hours on a diesel is not a lot.

I have a Yanmar 6 cylinder from 2001. Two yr ago when I bought her with 2800hrs on sea trails. At full throttle she did 50RPMs below specs. You could not ask for better.

Everyone I talked to said said the same thing. Yanmar makes a very good engine.

Personally, if you like the Rangers I would look at Cutwater. Same builder but with more room. I almost bought on, had the deposit down. Than came across my current boat.

 

[sunchaser]

2200 hours on a diesel is not a lot.

It depends. If the vessel was run at near WOT a lot that may be a lot of use. If run at 60% load or less that is not many hours. That engine should have an ECU that reveals load usage.

With SN in hand check with a good Yanmar tech as to what a set of monitors may reveal. Some Ranger Tugs are run hard. Maybe the owners log will help reveal some time and distance information.

 

[garbler]

Oil and coolant analysis a must. A sea trial and good visual and that should answer any concerns. Like the man said this is not a lot of hours if the records indicate proper maintenance

Rick

 

[Nick14]

I've found (the late) David Pascoe's writings to be very educational. He wrote a few articles on diesel engines, including how modern diesels can be a different animal from the old-school motors of past eras:

https://www.yachtsurvey.com/engines.htm

 

[Cargile]

Hi - ...............Is something like this with these higher hours even still worth considering? .......

I would not consider that "higher hours". Maybe just mincing words. Also curious no one asked. Did I miss the asking price?

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Buy it, nice low hours !!

pete

 

[DavidM]

I've found (the late) David Pascoe's writings to be very educational. He wrote a few articles on diesel engines, including how modern diesels can be a different animal from the old-school motors of past eras:

https://www.yachtsurvey.com/engines.htm

David Pascoe’s article was interesting but since it was based on DD 6V71s of 475 hp that we’re ovrpropped, ie overloaded, by as much as 35% it wasn’t entirely relavent to this situation and trawlers in general.

First, if the boat/engine is over propped by 35%, run not walk away. Even 10% over proping can cause excessive wear.

So how do you catch these things on a survey. A cold start can tell you a lot. If the engine won’t fire up after a couple of seconds cranking, watch out. After it has warmed up a simple hand blow by test can tell you if the rings are shot.

Overloading can be determined on a sea trial. First determine how far the dash tach may be off by comparing against a phtotach and correct its readings accordingly. Then run the engine at wot and see if it makes rated rpm’s. Also leave it at wot for a few minutes to see if it overheats.

These simple tests can usually catch an abused engine.

David

 

[rslifkin]

I also think Pascoe's thoughts on how long engines last are a bunch of crap. Both for gas and diesel engines. He seems to look at the lifespan as the worst case that's seen in boats with awful maintenance, poor engine installation, and abusive operators and treat that as the "normal" lifespan. In reality, I've got gas engines with more hours than he says a typical diesel will last in a recreational boat (and more than double what he expects from a gas engine).

 

[DavidM]

Pascoe surveyed a lot of sportfishers with DD engines that were run hard and were never expected to last more than a few thousand hours.

David

 

[sunchaser]

CBT
The 6BY260 is a 3 liter, 4,000 RPM 260 HP diesel. It is then with 85.6 HP per liter. Check out the Boatdiesel or Seaboard archives for some interesting Q&A. It is safe to say that this engine is designed to be a hot rod diesel obtaining its high HP from a small light block. Exactly what the RT needs to push it to 25 knots, but for how long is your question and a valid one.

 

[DavidM]

Boatdiesel considered the question as to how hard you can push a diesel and still get acceptable life. Acceptable can mean many things, but I took it to mean thousands of hours, maybe 10,000.

Tony Athens when he was active on BD responded that he cruising at 30 hp per liter is all you can run continuously and get acceptable life.

But recreational diesels rarely hit 10,000 hours without something other than wear doing them in.

If I had a boat like the OP is considering and I wanted to run it fast most of the time, I would run it at 50-60 hp per liter and live with the shorter life.

But if I only wanted to run slowly most of the time, I would run at 6-7 kts at maybe 20 hp per liter and could expect 10,000 hours of wear limited life.

It all depends on how the PO ran it and what the new owner wants to do with it.

David

 

[rslifkin]

Tony Athens when he was active on BD responded that he cruising at 30 hp per liter is all you can run continuously and get acceptable life.

Even that isn't a great guideline though, as different engine designs will tolerate a different power density before things start to wear quickly. A Cat 3208 has far more displacement than a Cummins B series, for example. But it makes less power than the later electronic Cummins and if looking at the higher ratings for both engines, the Cat doesn't have any better a reputation for longevity. In other words, the Cummins seems to handle high power density much better due to its design.

 

[DavidM]

Agreed. The Cummins 6BTA is a very well built engine, one of the few to pass the Navy’s torture test.

David

 

[AdamC]

Hi CountryBTr,

I've got twin Yanmar 4LHA engines on my 1999 Mainship. They've got over 3500 seasonal, salt-water hours on them and I'm very impressed with how they've held up. I'm in the process now of changing all the original hoses on both the coolant and sea-water circuits right now because they're showing their age but everything else is looking good. I'm into the cooling systems pretty far and have been impressed with how little corrosion there is on the metals. Even the wet exhaust elbows show little, if any corrosoion. Last oil analysis came back clean on both engines.

I would not be at all concerned about 2200 hours unless there are indications that the engine was not properly cared for.

-Adam

 

[SoWhat]

An elderly owner was probably not cruising around at 20+ kn.
2200 hours is appropriate for the age of the boat.
Well maintained diesel should go 10-20,000 hours before major overhaul.

 

[Snug Harbor]

I wouldn't be concerned with the engine hours, get it checked and be sure to include engine and transmission oil analysis. That's not a crazy amount of hours, I've sold trawlers with 9000 hours that were in really good shape and ran fine. The engine itself has a long, long life...it's the peripherals like cooling, charging, etc. that wear and need attention.

If I understand your original question, you're more concerned with the boat in general being used for 2100 hours. Those are engine hours, the boat itself has been occupied/used for far more than that. I look at every boat as an individual to be judged on it's own merits. So if the boat passes your eyeball and sniff test - move on to a rigorous marine survey to see what you are dealing with.

 

[r baker]

This engine was not designed as a marine engine; but I guess many are not. It’s primary application is (was) in BMW autos. It was made by Styre in Austria. With mine I found filters etc were identical and less costly if bought from a BMW dealer. Mine was on a Ranger 29 (2012) and was smooth and without vibration. The installation was a bit odd in that it was shoe horned in and partially under the aft end of the coach house with tight access. The hull had a bulge to accomodate the engines shape.
If I had any criticism, it was the Ranger engine room was crammed with equipment and therefore awkward to work in - that is my complaint but I am tall . The marina mechanic was a tiny sort and managed to fit himself into the nooks and crannies.
The 29 was a great boat, well mannered and easy to single hand, even thru locks on the Trent-Severn with the sliding door at the helm.

 

[ronobrien]

Hi - Looking at a private sale for a 2010 Ranger R29 with 2200 hours on the clock for its Yanmar 6BY2-260 diesel engine. It's a 1 owner boat - looks to be decently maintained, all mtce records are available. Of course - will do a marine survey and sea trial before purchase if I decided to move ahead?

I know generally diesel engines can go thousands of hours more than say a Mercury gas engine. It seems to me that any boat with 2200 hours will have seen a decent amount of use, vibration, stress on structure, etc.

Is something like this with these higher hours even still worth considering? For other high hour diesel owners - should I be concerned?

FYI - I've been in boating a few years so understand about regular mtce, inspections, etc.

Off road construction equipment puts many more hours on than they do miles. An approximation we would use to provide some point of reference was 30 miles to the hour run. You have about 66,000 miles. Barely broken in.

 

[mbdana]

Third Reef

Third Reef is a 1988 36' GB Classic with a single CAT 3208NA 7500 hour, still running strong. We just had the 1000hr maintaintance which included all hoses, belts, heat exchange clean and test, coolant, valve adjust and whatever else but John Pride, our CAT expert suggested that this diesel along with most are good to at least 20000hr if maintained properly. Lobster boats in our area, only ever have single engines (Mostly diesels) that are way beyond 20000hr. So your diesel most likely will be the least of your boating issues.

Happy cruising!
Best regards,
Mike Dana
Third Reef
36' Grand Banks Classic #819
Potts Harbor Maine (South Harpswell)

 

[C lectric]

Thx - I think I'm less concerned about the engine wear and more about the overall boat hours? Are there a lot of 2200+ hour trawlers in the market? I have no feel for how much or little the trawler high hour boats come up? I've never paid much attention to this boat segment in the past....

Will my 7,000+ hr boat and engine suffice. Mind you my much larger, heavier engine is run quite easily, not abused. THe boat has not planed in over 30 yrs.
I expect it will live many years yet unless I goof up. The biggest problem for me is pars availability is having an effect. But the engine starts within a few seconds even in freezing weather and when it too is freezing.

A lot depends upon how it is looked after but also how it is run.

I will comment that the lighter built, higher HP engines run hard I do not expect them to live as long as mine. THese engines to me are built more along the lines of race car or high performance car engine.

Fast but shorter life if pushed like that.

So find a GOOD engine surveyor of that engine lineup.

Sunchaser AND DAVID M make several very good points to look into.

 

[sunchaser]

With an idle few minutes I pulled up this BMW badged (likely not a BMW build) diesel engine and related comments on the boatdiesel website. To the OP, if you're really serious might I suggest a $25 subscription to that site? What I see there speaks for itself with better engine choices suggested.