10 drunken people ejected from a 21 foot boat - Page 2

psneeld · 08-06-2018, 05:00 PM

Thankfully they didn't cross the road in the boat.

BandB · 08-06-2018, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

Thankfully they didn't cross the road in the boat.

Wifey B: They tried but midway they got confused over which was the other side.

OldDan1943 · 08-06-2018, 07:25 PM

Years ago, there was a wedding party taking and enjoying an after ceremony boat ride on the ICW. A drunk boater and passengers came out of Guest a side canal, at a high rate of speed and T-boned the boat of the wedding party killing some of them serious injuring others. The drunk driver of the boat was tried, found guilty and sentence to a lengthy time in prison for felony drunk driving resulting in multiple deaths. I'd guess maybe 10 years later, he and his attorney appealed for a new trial. The judge threw the attorney and defendant out of the courtroom. Appeal denied.
In FL and GA and many other states, you get a ticket in a boat, the points go on your driver's license.
Drunk boating has a special problem, no real brakes.

markpierce · 08-06-2018, 07:46 PM

If I became drunk and took a cab home "like a good boy," would I be liable for a collision on the way home caused by the cab driver? Would that apply on the subject scenario?

OldDan1943 · 08-06-2018, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markpierce

If I became drunk and took a cab home "like a good boy," would I be liable for a collision on the way home caused by the cab driver? Would that apply on the subject scenario?

Are you sitting on the taxi driver's lap?
Are you covering the driver's eyes with your hands?

markpierce · 08-06-2018, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943

Are you sitting on the taxi driver's lap?

No. I'd imagine I'd be in the back seat

OldDan1943 · 08-06-2018, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markpierce

If I became drunk and took a cab home "like a good boy," would I be liable for a collision on the way home caused by the cab driver? Would that apply on the subject scenario?

Seriously, there are serious differences between "land laws" and maritime laws. The maritime courts will assign %age of guilt, no one gets off scott free.

boatruptcy · 08-07-2018, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

A lot of lives ruined, including the offender's, by alcohol. Young people destroyed. Whatever future she had is no longer possible. By our lack of enforcement, we've made driving under the influence and operating a boat under the influence acceptable. Rather than being proactive, we're reactionary.

Not sure where you're from, but lack of enforcement is not the issue...and neither is punishment. Go sit in a courtroom for a day, you do not get out of dui charges, ever. And enforcement is reactionary by nature, however, there are plenty of proactive measures put in place like sobriety checkpoints and enforcement programs.

psneeld · 08-07-2018, 02:08 PM

Have yet to see a sobriety checkpoint on the water....

must be quite the boat rodeo trying to get everyone to stop and hold position.

boatruptcy · 08-07-2018, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

Have yet to see a sobriety checkpoint on the water....

must be quite the boat rodeo trying to get everyone to stop and hold position.

Sorry that wasn't clear enough for some slow movers here.....His point was a broad one that we don't enforce DUI statutes, not limited to boating if I inferred correctly, thus putting the blame on society for the self destructive behavior of some. I completely disagree.

BandB · 08-07-2018, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatruptcy

Not sure where you're from, but lack of enforcement is not the issue...and neither is punishment. Go sit in a courtroom for a day, you do not get out of dui charges, ever. And enforcement is reactionary by nature, however, there are plenty of proactive measures put in place like sobriety checkpoints and enforcement programs.

Those who end up in court are predominantly ones who either had an accident or were stopped for some unrelated reason. They were not stopped through an enforcement plan aimed at DUI and certainly few are on the water. A very simple thing would be to check everyone leaving a bar at 2:00 AM but that type enforcement has previously been ruled illegal.

As to not getting out of DUI charges, people are given the opportunity to get those charges delayed and/or removed all the time. There are attorneys who are pros in getting people out of DUI's for many reasons. The poor never get out of them but the wealthy do all the time. Furthermore, our penalties are very weak compared to other countries. In France, a .08 is an aggravated criminal offense with 3 years license suspension and 4500 euro fine and up to two years in prison. Most states don't suspend the first time more than 90 days.

Here are a couple of attorney blurbs:

our firm has the experience and training to pick apart the State’s case whether based on an intoxilyzer sample, blood test, or mere standardized field sobriety test (SFST).

No DUI arrest is perfect. DUI law Enforcement officers are human. They make mistakes. DUI Breath Test Operators are human. They also make mistakes. DUI Breath Test Inspectors are human. They too can make mistakes. The DUI breath test machine isn’t perfect. It often makes mistakes and in some circumstances can be flat out wrong. Our Group knows Orlando and West Palm Beach DUI cases. Our Group knows the mistakes that occur in DUI cases and we will expose those mistakes to the judge and jury

Firms like the ones above keep 90% of their clients driving.

While I do not drive while drinking, I have been driving for 32 years and never been stopped for a DUI check. Never a checkpoint. Nothing.

Benthic2 · 08-07-2018, 04:31 PM

I have often times seen LEO's at the boat ramp at the end of the day. Its not an official "checkpoint" but they are walking around talking to lots of boaters. I am sure they aren't just trying to be friendly.

boatruptcy · 08-07-2018, 04:36 PM

Well of course an attorney is going to advertise he can help get you out of the charge you are hiring him to work on, what does that prove? Like I stated earlier, go sit in the actual courtroom for one day instead of looking for blogs and you will see these offenses are treated more harshly than even domestic violence and a lot of felonies.

The pressure applied to courts (and rightfully so in my opinion) from groups such as MADD and others is overwhelming and judges and prosecutors feel the weight. Again, go see for yourself, it's free and open to sit for the day, it will change your perspective.

I'm sorry but your personal experience isn't a big enough sample size to broadly paint all jurisdictions with the same brush, and I don't think our society is to blame for the self destructive behavior we see here. Checkpoints are out there, they happen all the time. Stopping all patrons leaving a bar is no simple or constitutional task.

boatruptcy · 08-07-2018, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

Firms like the ones above keep 90% of their clients driving.

This is patently false, show me any metric you have on this. You can't just assert something as fact because it supports your opinion.

BandB · 08-07-2018, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatruptcy

Checkpoints are out there, they happen all the time.

How many times have you been stopped at checkpoints?

boatruptcy · 08-07-2018, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

How many times have you been stopped at checkpoints?

Twice, but my sample size is just as small as yours and my personal interactions are about as relevant as jack crap. I have better things to do than fight an internet battle about whatever, but have some facts before you just throw out such a broad generalization.

BandB · 08-07-2018, 05:29 PM

Just a few numbers, mostly not current. Connecticut introduced a program allowing dismissal upon completion of a course and in 2011 had a dismissal rate of 70%. Washington has a dismissal rate of 32%. Most states are more in the 10-15% range and some have very few, but dismissal is the first attempt of an attorney. It's often done with agreements for courses and maintaining a clean record.

Then it comes to convictions. Some states have conviction rates as low as 65-70%. Others are as high as 85-95%.

In Florida, in 2017, there were 43,899 DUI tickets issued. There were 24,344 convictions. That is only a 55% conviction rate. Barely half. Those without the money or unwilling to spend the money as well as repeat offenders were convicted. However, I have no problem believing that some attorneys had very low conviction rates, as low as 10%. If you can afford the costs, you do have an excellent change of getting either a dismissal or a deferred adjudication or a non guilty. It's very unfortunate that we have two levels of justice, one for the poor and one for the wealthy. Oh, and those who have jury trials have a greater chance of getting off than those before judges.

Florida has an ignition interlock program on the second conviction. Why not the first? Or why not on all cars? Breathalyzers are easy and cheap so to install systems on all new cars would add very little to the price. It would inconvenience us when starting the car but perhaps worth it.

Before you think how bad Florida's conviction rate is, Georgia has a 36% conviction rate based on 10 years data through 2015. Fulton County, GA (Atlanta) had only a 24.4% conviction rate.

I stand by my initial statements as to the lousy job we're doing with enforcement, and in general with reducing driving under the influence.

BandB · 08-07-2018, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatruptcy

Twice, but my sample size is just as small as yours and my personal interactions are about as relevant as jack crap. I have better things to do than fight an internet battle about whatever, but have some facts before you just throw out such a broad generalization.

Facts just posted for FL and GA.

boatruptcy · 08-07-2018, 05:35 PM

Ha, I haven't read your response yet but you are definitely that guy that can never be wrong I see.

I live in this world, I have more first hand experience and more statistical data than you would ever be interested in seeing so forgive me if your google search does not impress.

boatruptcy · 08-07-2018, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

Firms like the ones above keep 90% of their clients driving.

I'm still waiting on the stats to back this up, oh that's right you literally made this up. And you are omitting a very important piece in your "stats" about FL, you fail to mention the pleas, guilty's and lessors that result in license revocation.

I think I'm done here, have a great day.