Navy Destroyer tee boned by a Freighter?

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dhays said:
Lots of speculation, very little information.

It just doesn't seem credible that so many watch officers and seamen would have completely failed at their job. We may or may not every find out what really happened.
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A cruise ship (Norwegian Dream) on which we were passengers, rammed a barge in the Montevideo harbor channel, sinking several SUVs and containers which were knocked off the barge. Our captain was fired by the time the two-day temporary repair was completed.



http://www.fromthedeckchair.com/2010/03/03/whatever-happened-to-the-norwegian-dream/

http://cruisetalk.org/norwegian-dream-some-thoughts-about-the-new-collision/
 
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When I worked on a cruise ship that was large for the day, but nothing like the behemoths of today, we would occaisionally do "man over-board" drills. It was amazing how long it took to turn around. It was a good 10 minutes before there was even any perceptable course change. I don't think a collision avoidance alarm can deal with an erratic course pattern like the one shown above. I'm thinking this was like when the squirrel runs in front of your car and you try to avoid it as it goes back and forth....left..right...left...squish.

I can't imagine what its like being on the bridge and knowing you're going to collide....and knowing that there's nothing you can do about it.

ps.

don't ever fall off a cruise ship....on calm sunny day by the time we slowed and turned the ship...got a lifeboat down...... it was sometimes 45 minutes before we could retrieve the floating dummy.
 
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It's hard to understand this collision...it looks like the ACX Crystal has mostly port side damage and the destroyer has starboard damage. So it seems like they were traveling in somewhat the same direction, right? (Converging at an angle?). I could see the Navy ship making a hard turn to port in an effort to avoid ACX Crystal?
And would that collision have turned the container ship 90 degrees starboard?
Maybe I'm reading the courses wrong...using my phone screen.

Also, did the 7 missing sailors get accounted for?
 
With two ships under power, am I correct the right hand ship (stbd) has right of way, and the left (port) ship must steer to avoid?
 
Acheron2010 said:
With two ships under power, am I correct the right hand ship (stbd) has right of way, and the left (port) ship must steer to avoid?
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Yes, and no.

In open waters the vessel to starboard is the "stand on" vessel. Meaning it should maintain its course and speed. The vessel to port should navigate so as to avoid a collision.

However there are other circumstances such as rule of tonnage, deep draft vessel in a restricted channel. sail vs. power, etc. etc.. Chapmans is a great resource.

Over all these is one overriding rule - all captains MUST do everything in their power to avoid a collision. So even if you have right of way, you should conduct yourself in the boating version of defensive driving!

There are even grey areas there. For example if you are the stand-on vessel but believe the other vessel and your's are about to collide and you take evasive action by changing speed or course, and then a collision occurs since the other vessel was also takin evasive action, you can be assigned a percentage of the blame as you were the stand on vessel and should have held your course.

Stay safe out there!
 
The freighter was all over the place, but the US Navy vessel should have never allowed this little distance to begin with. This is a symptom of something else- you would have thought someone was watching.
 
I think the freighter was all over the place... After the collision. Looks like steady course and speed up to 1630 UTC, time of the collision.
 
Ski in NC said:
I think the freighter was all over the place... After the collision. Looks like steady course and speed up to 1630 UTC, time of the collision.
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The Marine Traffic plot seems to indicate the container ship on steady course, until 1630Z, at which point Fitz crosses in front and get's itself T-boned.
Abrupt right angle turn of cargo ship seems to indicate that.??

Yes? No?

Many times, Sh... happens and I feel sorry for the crew who will lose their jobs/careers.
In this case, this was a Sh.. show and everyone needs to find new careers.
 
You guys know that if agreements are made on the radio or there is an "operation" by the Navy that the rules are flexible right up to the point of collision.

So the regular Navrules are out the window except for rule 2.
 
I don't know about rules for big boats but if I saw a navy (any navy) vessel coming towards me I would move as fast as possible.
 
Ski in NC said:
I think the freighter was all over the place... After the collision. Looks like steady course and speed up to 1630 UTC, time of the collision.
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Exactly how I read it. I bet after the collision he returned to assist, if needed. Next, he proceeded on his way.
 
Sad news:

YOKOSUKA, Japan -- A number of Sailors that were missing from the collision between USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) and a merchant ship have been found. As search and rescue crews gained access to the spaces that were damaged during the collision this morning, the missing Sailors were located in the flooded berthing compartments. They are currently being transferred to Naval Hospital Yokosuka where they will be identified. The families are being notified and being provided the support they need during this difficult time. The names of the Sailors will be released after all notifications are made.
 
..After I saw the AIS erratic course of the merchant, the frigate captain have a very little chance not finish flipping hamburger in McDonald on 6 month...
 
Yea, saw some of same discrepancies. Not sure of the time.
 
FlyWright said:
Exactly how I read it. I bet after the collision he returned to assist, if needed. Next, he proceeded on his way.
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1630Z collision also explains the right angle turn at that time. Pretty hard to get a container ship to slip sideways.
 
"Sean P. Tortora, a veteran merchant marine captain and consultant who said he had sailed through the area of the collision many times, said that evidence suggested the Fitzgerald was at fault.

Captain Tortora described the collision as a “T-bone” in which the bow of the Crystal hit the starboard side of the Fitzgerald. “From what I’ve seen, the Fitzgerald should have given way and passed to the stern of the container ship,” he said.

He added that a common cause of collisions, at sea or on the simulators used for training, is a misjudgment of distance and speed on the part of a captain trying to cross in front of another vessel. “They think they can make it and they make a run for it,” Captain Tortora said."

This is from the NYT's story.

But what strikes me is that in my travels, I have once-in-a-while decided to pass in front of a passing boat, BUT after the fact, every time, I wonder what was I thinking and to not do that again.
But that's with boat's my size, with larger ships, I never pass in front, that's on the the lessons I learned in the USCG Aux.
 
Wxx3 said:
1630Z collision also explains the right angle turn at that time. Pretty hard to get a container ship to slip sideways.
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Right. If you reject the news report that the collision was at 17:30, and just look at the freighters track, it would seem that:

- 16:30 collision, knocking the freighter 90 deg off course.

- freighter continues on it's way, getting back on course.

- freighter realizes that the navy ship is in distress, so turns and doubles back to assist.

- freighter arrives back at navy ship around 17:30, slows to a stop, zig zags around to see if it can assist.

- freighter then gets back underway, resuming course and speed.
 
psneeld said:
You guys know that if agreements are made on the radio or there is an "operation" by the Navy that the rules are flexible right up to the point of collision.

So the regular Navrules are out the window except for rule 2.
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Regardless, it's a tragic accident and lives were lost. We don't yet know the circumstances, but should soon I would guess since there are many survivors.
 
Would be interesting to know if there was other traffic in the area at the time that may have limited their maneuvering options.

Ted
 
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True, rules are between 2 vessels, a 3rd in the mix changes a lot.

Love to hear the radio exchanges if any.
 
Good point Ted. I also wonder if there were any designated lanes.

Lots of facts we don't know that I'm sure will come out in time.
 
O C Diver said:
Would be interesting to know if there was other traffic in the area at the time that may have limited their maneuvering options.

Ted
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The entrance to Tokyo wan probably sees, literally, a thousand ships a day. Every thing from 60 to 80 ft fishing vessels to supermax tankers and freighters. In short it's busy. I'd guess they both had scheduled pilot pick up times and were planning their arrivals based on that. The 180 turn of the freighter would indicate to me they were a bit early.

If Fitz wasn't tracking 30 -50 contacts with in 10 miles I'd be surprised. This one, when it made it's reversal, got missed by combat and the bridge team. Complacency costs lives.
 
MRRiley said:
... In short it's busy. I'd guess they both had scheduled pilot pick up times and were planning their arrivals based on that. The 180 turn of the freighter would indicate to me they were a bit early.

If Fitz wasn't tracking 30 -50 contacts with in 10 miles I'd be surprised. This one, when it made it's reversal, got missed by combat and the bridge team. Complacency costs lives.
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Certainly more questions than answers.

This will probably be one of those cases where too much data obscured the critical.
 
Based on that plot, collision occurred after u-turn.. interesting..



Ski in NC said:
Here's another interesting discussion with expandable track. Seems a lot of discussion centers on the 0130 vs 0230 JST collision time. Presumably the Fitz coms were disabled and the freighter may have not have made a timely reporting of the collision, possibly due to third world type reasoning. Who knows.

Vessel of Interest | наблюдаемое судно: Mapping the ACX Crystal's collision with the USS Fitzgerald using publicly available info
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kev_rm said:
Based on that plot, collision occurred after u-turn.. interesting..
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Wifey B: The sequence of events should be easy to determine with crew. Sure makes it look very different if U Turn was before or after. :ermm:
 
Could have been an act of a militant ship captain.
 
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