Markel/USAA Insurance Non-Renewal Notice today-

[STB]

Can you imagine having your boat hauled for every named storm? Seems like more and more storms are named.

Nope. I can't.

My current marina wants me to agree to remove the boat during every named storm (not legal by statute in Florida, actually). I've told them I won't agree.

They haven't threatened to throw me out or non-renew me, yet. So far they tell me that the issue isnt going to go away and they'll ask again next month.

Been going on for months. Ultimately, it is their marina and their choice. But I wont promise what I can't promise. As I told them, me backing the boat up 200' and dropping anchor is bad for everyone.

And, if I tell my insurer that, although I have a home marina, I can't be in my slip during a named storm, I bet they drop me or send my rates through the roof. I don't think they'll find that particularly low risk.

 

[Blissboat]

My current marina wants me to agree to remove the boat during every named storm (not legal by statute in Florida, actually). I've told them I won't agree.

Just for context and to maintain my local knowledge, would you mind sharing any clues at all about the general location in Florida where you keep your boat?

Not to beat a dead horse here, but the old TF showed our locations at the city / metro level. The new TF now defaults to "USA." Maybe that was an intentional change to satisfy members who prefer to be more anonymous, but I regret the diminished info.

 

[O C Diver]

Ted,

I'm not taking anything personally. I'm just very surprised.

Unlike residences, there is no statutory risk pool for boats in Florida. My rates relate to my vessel's risk. And yours relate to your vessels risks, etc. They aren't pooled together.

My insurance company knows where I live. They know where my boat lives. They know that I'm not a liveaboard. They know exactly where my boat is likely to be during a storm. They know I'm not expected to move it for a storm. They know the liklihood of storms and their intensity, at least as well as anyone does.

I got a discount for diesel engines (vs gas) and a boaters safety course and for being at a marina with 24 hour staffing and for my claim history, etc. And, curiously enough, for not being a liveaboard. I got charged extra for living far away and, for a while, for my lack of experience. And so on.

My rates have very little to do with yours. And, given the risks I've ask my insurer to accept, I am quite happy with my rates.

If your rates seem to incorporate more risk than you think they should, it is probably because the insurance company is estimating your success in protecting your boat more modestly than you are. That has little to do with any other class of boater, except maybe those nearby without liability (e.g., folks without insurance travelling and anchoring next to you during the storm).

You can try a different insurer, but if they are all less confident in you than you, you can, as you suggest, self-insure and accept the risk.

Maybe you know something they all don't. Maybe they know something you don't. I can't say. But beating nature is often harder than it seems, at least to me.

As for moving boats, only what is possible is possible. The amount of safe river that can be reached within the time window is shorter than the coastline. And that coastline has about as many unteailerable boats as ants.

Be glad others don't move their boats more often...leaves the space available for you and less likely to be a disaster full of folks who don't normally anchor and now need to do so for weather.

STB,
Your rates don't only relate to your vessel and neither do mine. If that were the case, my insurance would be near zero cost as I have 45 years with zero claims. Instead, insurance is based on the area you operate in, the vessel, your qualifications and track record.

For the record, I sold my boat in April. I always considered my rates to be very reasonable as a function of 35 years with a 100 ton masters license and over 4,000 days of sea time. They were also based on the boat being North of Savannah June 1st through November 1st for the 10 years I owned it.

"As for moving boats, only what is possible is possible." That's probably what the insurance company hears before they cancel the policy and only offer "no coverage for named storms". Insurance companies are in the business to make money. As such, part of the goal is to remove high risk boat / owners. When the owner says, "I live in New York and won't be able to move my boat before a hurricane. So my boat will stay at the fixed (as opposed to floating) dock irrespective of how bad the storm surge will be". Those are the owners that "high deductible" or "no coverage for named storms" is designed for. Why shouldn't it be that way?

Ted

 

[O C Diver]

Can you imagine having your boat hauled for every named storm? Seems like more and more storms are named.

My guess is that it would be based on proximity to the storm and the cat size. Really doubt you would be required to haul for one in the Gulf of Mexico or one going to hit Bermuda.

Ted

 

[STB]

STB,
Your rates don't only relate to your vessel and neither do mine. If that were the case, my insurance would be near zero cost as I have 45 years with zero claims. Instead, insurance is based on the area you operate in, the vessel, your qualifications and track record.

For the record, I sold my boat in April. I always considered my rates to be very reasonable as a function of 35 years with a 100 ton masters license and over 4,000 days of sea time. They were also based on the boat being North of Savannah June 1st through November 1st for the 10 years I owned it.

"As for moving boats, only what is possible is possible." That's probably what the insurance company hears before they cancel the policy and only offer "no coverage for named storms". Insurance companies are in the business to make money. As such, part of the goal is to remove high risk boat / owners. When the owner says, "I live in New York and won't be able to move my boat before a hurricane. So my boat will stay at the fixed (as opposed to floating) dock irrespective of how bad the storm surge will be". Those are the owners that "high deductible" or "no coverage for named storms" is designed for. Why shouldn't it be that way?

Ted

Okay. We agree that our rates relate to our own vessel's risk, which I certainly agree includes the attendant risks of its geographic location.

If the insurance companies choose not to insure certain risks, I agree that is their choice. Same w.r.t. the rate. No argument there.

I'm in approximately the situation you describe w.r.t. geography, but fortunately, I've found insurance companies have been able to rate the risk and I've had no trouble at all with getting reasonably unrestricted full coverage. The price is what it is and I think it is totally fair.

As I've mentioned, I protect my boat pretty effectively in place, but I assume my risk is, in part, being pooled with those who don't, since it is easier to validate location than preparation once a loss occurs. Having said that, I suspect I am partly insulated by my decades long (no) claim history across policies that shows I'm pretty careful with people and things. In any case, my rates are determined by whatever the insurance company case tease out about my risk.

As for floating vs fixed docks, I've weather storms in both, and "it depends" is my personal answer. I've seen it go both ways.

All things being equal, I'd prefer a floating dock. Obviously easier to get right.

But it seems that among those I've seen, the floating docks are more likely to be newer, pre-fab systems, and installed with economy as a primary concern. They, in my experience, for what little it is, are more likely to be shorter, less stout, and less protected.

I've been at some floating docks that were barely stubs or stern dock-only, some without additional pilings. Don't like those one bit. I have greater exposure to my neighbor's decisions and greater exposure for my own choices. Lots resting on few cleats. Yuck!

And some floating docks I've been at "top out" well below those hurricane storm surge.

My current slip doesn't float, but has a truly full length finger dock on one side and lots of pilings on the other. Tying up involves more choices and compromises than on a floating dock, and I'm probably more at risk for minor damage, which had occasionally happened at a prior fixed slip, but I'm pretty well insulated from being able to damage the dock or my neighbors and as protected as I can be from the world around me.

As for insurance w/wreck removal, that woukd be nice. At least marinas and mooring fields, and other managed storage typically have such requirements.

 

[STB]

Just for context and to maintain my local knowledge, would you mind sharing any clues at all about the general location in Florida where you keep your boat?

Not to beat a dead horse here, but the old TF showed our locations at the city / metro level. The new TF now defaults to "USA." Maybe that was an intentional change to satisfy members who prefer to be more anonymous, but I regret the diminished info.

St Pete area.

But, it isn't a geographic thing. As of January it is being managed by a property management company that manages hundreds of properties -- but only one other marina, also a small one, somewhere in the northeast.

This is something that they want to do as part of making both marinas the same. But, they aren't the same geographically. The situation is different. That might be reasonable in a place where most boats are stored all winter long and storms are rare, but might not be equally reasonable in a place where most boats are in the water all year long and passing storms are common.

As of last time I checked, about half of us hadn't signed. I think we are hoping they'll become more acclimated and change their minds before they tire of us and force the issue. For all I know, they are giving us a little more time to show patience, but are already resolved to force the issue. Time will tell.

 

[psneeld]

......am not so sure there are "pools" for boat owners that really a.

When the ONLY questions they ask about your experience is "are you a member of the USCGA or ABC?" another is whether you took a safe boating class. I think there are people out there with experience that dwarfs either of those. Lastlly they also base experience on years boating... totally a waste when it comes to whether a boater is in over their head in SO many categories.

If many boaters are getting policy costs based on a handful of just these simplistic questions...when there are huge differences in real experience...I do think there are pools

Okay. We agree that our rates relate to our own vessel's risk, which I certainly agree includes the attendant risks of its geographic location.

If the insurance companies choose not to insure certain risks, I agree that is their choice. Same w.r.t. the rate. No argument there.

I'm in approximately the situation you describe w.r.t. geography, but fortunately, I've found insurance companies have been able to rate the risk and I've had no trouble at all with getting reasonably unrestricted full coverage. The price is what it is and I think it is totally fair.

As I've mentioned, I protect my boat pretty effectively in place, but I assume my risk is, in part, being pooled with those who don't, since it is easier to validate location than preparation once a loss occurs. Having said that, I suspect I am partly insulated by my decades long (no) claim history across policies that shows I'm pretty careful with people and things. In any case, my rates are determined by whatever the insurance company case tease out about my risk.

As for floating vs fixed docks, I've weather storms in both, and "it depends" is my personal answer. I've seen it go both ways.

All things being equal, I'd prefer a floating dock. Obviously easier to get right.

But it seems that among those I've seen, the floating docks are more likely to be newer, pre-fab systems, and installed with economy as a primary concern. They, in my experience, for what little it is, are more likely to be shorter, less stout, and less protected.

I've been at some floating docks that were barely stubs or stern dock-only, some without additional pilings. Don't like those one bit. I have greater exposure to my neighbor's decisions and greater exposure for my own choices. Lots resting on few cleats. Yuck!

And some floating docks I've been at "top out" well below those hurricane storm surge.

My current slip doesn't float, but has a truly full length finger dock on one side and lots of pilings on the other. Tying up involves more choices and compromises than on a floating dock, and I'm probably more at risk for minor damage, which had occasionally happened at a prior fixed slip, but I'm pretty well insulated from being able to damage the dock or my neighbors and as protected as I can be from the world around me.

As for insurance w/wreck removal, that woukd be nice. At least marinas and mooring fields, and other managed storage typically have such requirements.

Pretty sure geography and incidence of storms does play a huge factor in insurance risk management....

Also, typically other than some almost rediculously simplistic questions about an owners experiece, determining a boats chances of survival absolutel depends on geography and what your "hurricane plan" they request says.

Even then many different owners are lumped together as stats have shown well taken care of boats are sunk because of marina facilities or thr neglected boats tied up there.

I am to the point where all boats in some places should NOT be able to get named storm insurance or pay numbers most couldnt afford.

 

[rslifkin]

Lastlly they also base experience on years boating... totally a waste when it comes to whether a boater is in over their head in SO many categories.

Even better, many only care about years of boat ownership. A lot of insurance companies didn't care at all about experience on boats I didn't own and many wanted to require a training captain. Didn't even matter that I'd spent many hours at the helm of the exact boat I was insuring prior to me owning it, they considered my experience as pretty much zero because I'd never personally owned a boat.

 

[SteveK]

Even better, many only care about years of boat ownership. A lot of insurance companies didn't care at all about experience on boats I didn't own and many wanted to require a training captain. Didn't even matter that I'd spent many hours at the helm of the exact boat I was insuring prior to me owning it, they considered my experience as pretty much zero because I'd never personally owned a boat.

The people we get insurance from may not be boaters.
@rslifkin your post reminded me that indeed I spent time on other peoples boats usually larger than my current boat at the time and asked to take the helm. Experience gained bit by bit.
You are correct, years of owning a boat trumps experience as that experience cannot be measured as easily. But owning a boat that hardly ever leaves the marina does not create experience.

 

[tiltrider1]

I have run into the same issue. I thought it was humorous that my friend was on my insurance company’s approved captains list. I called him and told him I needed his help for insurance reasons. He agreed but only if I continued to give him advice on how to cross the river bars.

Now, my insurance company is fine no matter what I want to do with the current boat but heaven forbid should I buy a boat that is 10’ longer.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

For every person there is a number that they are willing to assume the risk.

Very true

 

[PMF1984]

Jeff,

Short Story: Contact your local State Farm agent.

Long Story:

In 2015, I got insurance for the value of the hull ($80,000) from Brit International. Insurance was for the east coast of the US. After the devastating hurricane in the islands, Brit International quit the boat business. BTW, I was not allowed to south of Virginia during hurricane season.

In 2019, I switched to Chubb, although I had a survey showing a hull value of $157,500, Chubb would give me coverage of only $125,000 as they felt the increase from 80k to 157k was too much. ( the fact that the boat was no longer a wreck because of the improvements did not matter.) Insurance was for east coast, but not allowed in Florida during hurricane season.

In 2023, I crashed the boat due to operator error. Payout from Chubb was 125k, less hull value. (They said at this point that the boat was worth 145k - cute trick) Chubb cut me off (bad risk).

So if you go to some places as a transient, you need proof of insurance, and if you want to leave your boat just about anywhere reputable for any length of time, you need proof of insurance. At the same time you need a homeport to get insurance. You also need a recent survey. So after repairs were completed, a survey was done and I started looking for an insurance carrier. I used the repair yard in the Chesapeake as the home port.

I did an internet application with the following:
Progressive _ No, hull value was over 75k and boat was over 20 years old
Cincinatti -No - the boat was not in my state of domicile
State Farm - No, no reason

I then went to TF pages on insurance:
Boat Insurance Agency - No, west coast only
Gowrie Group - No, past claim
Marine Underwriters Agency - No, past claim
Johnson & Johnson - No
Risk Strategies - No, past claim
Progressive - Yes. I contacted Peter Ricks at Novamar in Seattle. He was able to tap into possibilities at Progressive that were unavailable to me through their webpage. I got coverage for the surveyed hull value of 112k for less than $1000. I was restricted to no more than 4 moths away from my homeport in Maryland. So while I was able to go to Florida in any time of year, I was not able to stay there as a homeport.

I wanted to leave the boat in Jacksonville at Lamb's Yacht Center in Jacksonville. Lamb's requires hull, liability and environmental insurance coverage. So you can't get a slip there without insurance. One of the things important to the insurance company is exactly where you will leave the boat. So you can't get insurance without a slip.

I contacted Novamar about changing my home port from Solomans, Maryland to Jacksonville, Florida for the Progressive policy. No.

Novamar was able to get binders from two companies, Kemah, and Markel.

The Kemah application required a Absentee Owner Plan and a Named Storm Plan. Their offer was no wind coverage and a hull value of 50K. Aside from the fact that Lamb's requires insurance for the whole hull value, I don't see the point of 50k of insurance on a 112k boat where a claim of 50K totals the boat and to keep your boat you have to buy back the hull.

The Markel policy was for the 112k hull value at a cost over $4000 and required a hurricane haul out contract. Initially, I just felt this was too much and did not act on this in a timely manner. Upon reflection and looking at the alternatives, I finally got back to Novamar as the binder expired. They called Markel and Markel said they would go forward with the policy. I then started looking for a place that had Hurricane haul out contracts. There is only one place a hurricane haul out contract was available and I paid the non-refundable fee. Also was sent a "Windstorm Haul-Out Condition Disclosure" form to sign, wrote a "Storm Tie-Down Plan", filled out an "Absentee Owners Caretaker Plan" form (Markel doesn't want the marina folks listed as responsible parties as they are "too busy" with their own stuff when a storm is coming), and a "Windstorm Preparedness Plan" ( 7 pages). I filled these all out and sent them back with the signed Hurricane Haul-Out" contract.

After receiving the requested materials, Markel decided they did not want to offer me coverage after all.

Peter Ricks told me the problems with the Florida market is based on the Hurricane Ina experience. Immediately after the storm an agency trade group estimated 500 insured boats had been totaled. It was more like 5000.

A Happy Ending. My son-in-law play tennis with a fellow who owns a State Farm branch office in Jacksonville. I was told to call Deborah Addis (904-221-1161). Underwriting at State Farm took their time, but I got coverage for full hull coverage in about 6 week from time of first contact with Deb

 

[Slider70]

Hello,

Bad news seems to come all at one it seems lately.

I just received an this email today from Markel/USAA insurance -

Quote-

-This email notice is being sent to you since this risk no longer meets our yacht program’s windstorm coverage criteria for a tropical depression, tropical storm of hurricane. As such, this policy is scheduled for non-renewal effective 7/8/2024. The formal notice should be mailed out to you by 6/3/2024.

Please contact us if you wish to consider a windstorm included policy with a higher windstorm deductible, with a windstorm haul out condition during a windstorm event (tropical depression, tropical storm or hurricane). The yacht would not be required to be hauled ashore if the yacht was moved outside the windstorm watch or warning area. Coverage would be suspended if the yacht remained afloat while in a windstorm watch or warning area. Please note that we do provide windstorm extra expense coverage, for no additional premium, if a windstorm watch or warning is issued for the area that your yacht is moored, that would reimburse you 50% of your actual haul out expenses, up to a maximum of $1,000 for any one windstorm event, and $2,000 total in any single policy period. A blank windstorm preparation form is attached in case you wish us to review your plans.

Please contact us if you wish to consider a windstorm excluded policy, with a much-reduced annual premium, with a windstorm haul out condition during a windstorm event (tropical depression, tropical storm or hurricane). The yacht would not be required to be hauled ashore if the yacht was moved outside the windstorm watch or warning area. Coverage would be suspended if the yacht remained afloat while in a windstorm watch or warning area. Windstorm extra expense coverage is not available for windstorm excluded policies. A blank windstorm preparation form is attached in case you wish us to review your plans.​

I called and a representative there and they suggested I fill out and submit the attached Windstorm Preparedness Plan to be reconsidered? Did I miss that somewhere in the email above??.....what am I missing?

I suppose I am not the first boat owner to get this kick in the shin.....

Suggestions welcome please...

Jeff

I have no love for insurance companies but I have been expecting a heavy increase in premium costs with the amount of claims over the last few years. I did get an increase on mine here in BC, Canada.

Insurance companies are in business to lose money over numerous years. Maybe not even one year? I have a 37 year old boat that has been thoroughly up graded and kept in prime condition as certified by the insurance companies accepted surveyor. Still, I am concerned that at some point they may feel the risk of loss is too great for their bottom-line.

I would be unhappy but still understand they are a business not a charity or government tax payer funded entity.

 

[rwaldrop13]

Frankly, I'm surprised insurance companies haven't done this sooner. Lots of boats were destroyed in SWFL from hurricane Ian. Lots of people simply left there boats in place with the notion, "Eh, it's insured". I can see this motivating people to have a real storm plan.

Would really like to see this for other movable assets like automobiles. Car insurance in Fort Myers has gone up significantly to cover the costs of people too stupid (or just wanting a new car) to move their cars out of Ian's flood surge. To put this in perspective, 5 to 10 miles inland at a shopping mall or big box store, would have been all that was necessary.

Really don't like people too lazy to protect their assets, that in turn drives my premiums up.

Ted

A lot of us DID NOT just say "eh, it's insured" and leave it in place. Up until 8 hours before Ian struck Fort Myers, FL where we were with our liveaboard 1986 54' Hatteras, the storm was projected to strike Tampa or north of Tampa. 6 hours before it hit Fort Myers, they changed the track drastically. We lost the boat and everything we owned, and a marina that had been there for 30+ years was completely wiped out along with 130 other boats. If we hadn't evacuated under order from the marina, we would have been statistics. As it is we watched the storm take the marina apart, and our home get crushed under the floating concrete dock sections. Before you assume people "left their boats in place" please take the time to research the actual circumstances. I spent 7 months fighting with my insurance company to get my claim approved, and if it hadn't been for the state of Florida I'd still be waiting. We knew we were taking a risk but at that point we didn't have a choice. There were no available haulout or storm holes up the Caloosahatchie, as the CoE had stopped operating the locks the day before. We were out of options and were fortunate to get the last 2nd floor room in the marina hotel.

 

[psneeld]

Don't take it personally. Ted also makes prep but is in the same area, he knows some people do go to great lengths to protect their property from storms.

BUT......I have discussed this with several insurance adjusters during major salvage jobs.

Unfortunately for every one person that does prep their boat for a storm, there are many more that don't and every day I hear the old expression "I am not worried, it's insured". The adjusters all agreed that it sometimes the simple stuff like canvas that costs a ton to replace that should have been taken down, but it's not so rates go up.

Bottom line...boats near the coast of Florida during Hurricane season really are in a spot. Thus why so many insurance companies require it north of Florida.

 

[Bud]

After Hurricane Irma here in the Florida Keys we have had an overwelming abundance of derelict boats down here. The state has cleaned up some but you can not really tell. It really is ruining the area, everywhere you look whether it is at the sunset or just the horizon there is a derelict boat in your view.

 

[rgano]

I had Markel-USAA on my Grand Banks 42 before I sold it in 2015 and acquired this MS 30 Pilot II. Just as I had done with the GB, I insured this new-to-me vessel through Markel-USAA without named storm coverage. Why? Because I am not an absentee boater and always move my boat to a safe haven when hurricanes threaten us here in the Panama City area. When I was working before 2012, I had a couple of anxious times when I had to leave town for work during hurricane season for a week or two at a time, but there was somebody in place to handle things. In any event, my boats survived just fine in their hurricane holes during the two worst hurricanes to hit this area in many years; cat 3 Opal in 1995 (flooded my current house to the knees) and cat 5 Michael in 2018. Having a good hole to go to hereabouts depends on the fact that most people do not take the same level of care I do because there are probably 5 good holes to every hundred boats here which could benefit from one. One year, I moved the big boat to its hole four times, and we had to do so early because we would see what we knew were smaller scout boats coming up into our area looking for places to run charter boats to. We could tell these boats were scout because 10 they were out in less than nice weather as the storm approached, 2) they were not rigged for any on-water activity like fishing or skiing, 3) usually two men would be standing up scanning the docks and coves. When we saw these scouts, if we had not already moved, we boat owners in the bayou would notify each other and immediately stop other hurricane preps and runs the boats around to claim our spots before the foreigners could return with their bigger boats. So if you are passing through some place and think you can secure a hurricane hole, my recommendation is to do so at least three days before landfall which is a tough one since landfall predictions wobble all over the place, You get the idea. I am personally strongly opposed to the idea of hauling a boat for storm avoidance and was proven correct when during Michael the winds were so strong that boats in the boatyard a half mile from my boatlift were toppled over in a domino effect which took months to clear away. I had wandered through the yard immediately after other storms to witness the tie downs and don't remember seeing the vessels secured with ground anchors screwed into the soil. I bet they do now.

 

[rgano]

Location

 

[Bud]

We live on a canal here in the Keys. To prepare for a hurricane we cannot outrun. All boats left on our canel we take off their docks and tie them across the canal with a lot of scope as to account for surge. Hurricane Irma I had 4" of water in my house, 1ft of water outside my house and my Boats were fine no damage.

 

[Bud]

The moral of the story is to have a hurricane or storm plan thats effective and it may be different for different areas. First and best is to get out of harms way. The cone is the thing to pay attention to. We look at the individual models down here and have found the euro model the best for predicting tracks and landfalls. Ted and others shared their efforts they made to avoid being in harms way. This is good information to know and have for future events. I pay attention down here to what people did and how they avoided harm from these hurricanes. Having been through two major hurricanes here the information I have now for the next hurricane is encouraging and calming to me. I won't bore with all the details most of it is common sense.
Have a plan and share it with others that have boating experience.
There is only one thing that can keep a man everlastingly ignorant and that is " Contempt prior to investigation" Herbert Spencer

 

[O C Diver]

A lot of us DID NOT just say "eh, it's insured" and leave it in place. Up until 8 hours before Ian struck Fort Myers, FL where we were with our liveaboard 1986 54' Hatteras, the storm was projected to strike Tampa or north of Tampa. 6 hours before it hit Fort Myers, they changed the track drastically. We lost the boat and everything we owned, and a marina that had been there for 30+ years was completely wiped out along with 130 other boats. If we hadn't evacuated under order from the marina, we would have been statistics. As it is we watched the storm take the marina apart, and our home get crushed under the floating concrete dock sections. Before you assume people "left their boats in place" please take the time to research the actual circumstances. I spent 7 months fighting with my insurance company to get my claim approved, and if it hadn't been for the state of Florida I'd still be waiting. We knew we were taking a risk but at that point we didn't have a choice. There were no available haulout or storm holes up the Caloosahatchie, as the CoE had stopped operating the locks the day before. We were out of options and were fortunate to get the last 2nd floor room in the marina hotel.

I am truly sorry for the loss of your boat.

On the morning of September 25th storm Ian in the Southern Caribbean turned North Northwest tracking towards Cuba and SWFL. It was projected to turn into a hurricane. At that point, anyone with a boat in South to Southwest Florida should have been following the every 6 hour updates from the National Hurricane Center. Boat evacuation or preparation should have been planned for the next day.

On September 26th at 6AM Ian became a hurricane. It was forecast to be a major hurricane hitting Cuba on the 27th and the SW Florida coast. Residents had 2 days and 9 hours to move or prepare their boats before Ian made landfall at near Fort Myers. I would have left on the morning of the 26th and been in Moore Haven by 6pm.

On the 27th I would have crossed the Okeechobee and been in Stuart. While Ian was making landfall on Cuba.

When Ian became a hurricane (September 26th) it was forecast to be a major hurricane (cat 3 to 5) with substantial storm surge from the Florida Keys to Panama City. The track was generally within 100 miles of Fort Myers and Fort Myers was within the cone of possible landfall. Hunkering down on a fixed dock within 100 miles of a cat 3 to 5 hurricane within a projected storm surge of 9' wasn't a good hurricane plan.

You probably could have left on the morning of the 27th and gotten out of harms way. The 27th was the last day of locking.

Ted

 

[mvweebles]

There was a point in time a few days before Ian hit that the "M" for major hurricane was seemingly covering my house in Madeira Beach, at least 100 miles north of Ft Myers. Recent forecasts had it skewing offshore with possible landfall near Pensacola.

My good friend who I mention frequently with a 52-ft power cat about a mile from me seriously considered moving his boat out of harms way. Had he done so, he would have started southward towards Cayo Costa - Ft Myers. I don't recall the exact dates like Ted does so perhaps he had plenty of time and would have simply reversed course.

Last week, I attended a NHC webinar on hurricane forecasting. Lots of good information. One of the interesting tidbits was the Cone of Certainty captured one sigma of likely scenarios. Meaning that 1/3rd of the scenarios will fall outside the Cone. They showed one storm in the Atlantic where the forecast wasclose to 1000 miles off.

And then there was Hurricane Otis that decorated Acapulco when it went from a tropical depression to Cat 5 in something like 36 hours.

My point being hindsight is pretty accurate. But often times, the path forward is far from clear on what to do, and if you decide to do something, whether you'll have time or move in the right direction. That said, for the Ft Myers area, scooting up the Caloosahatchee is a pretty easy and safe mitigation plan.....if there's room.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

Isn't the real point (which I often have some issue with) that the risk managers well schooled in this (insurance companies) feel having a boat in Floriday (anyplace) during hurricane season is a bad idea...

Especially because people don't tend to get that it's the "hurricane hole" that is more important than the actual landfall and intensity that makes it a "hole". That hole could be miles away....not necessarily hundreds of miles away. Most people aren't gonna do shi* because they are insured...but if you don't want to lose your "home" or prized possession.... there are things you can do, the primary one is get out of Florida during cane season and after that have a good hole picked out (if there aren't any, why are you still in Florida?)

 

[sunchaser]

Location

Yup. Given the hurricane loss risk, experience, boat type etc pales in comparison.

There is an answer though if you moor or travel in risky locations. Self insure but carry liability if possible. Buy accordingly so that a total boat loss can be financially managed.

 

[Blissboat]

Jeff,

Short Story: Contact your local State Farm agent . . . A Happy Ending. My son-in-law play tennis with a fellow who owns a State Farm branch office in Jacksonville. I was told to call Deborah Addis (904-221-1161). Underwriting at State Farm took their time, but I got coverage for full hull coverage in about 6 week from time of first contact with Deb

Recently I also received a prompt, affordable quote for hull, liability and medical payments coverage from my local State Farm agent here in Jacksonville. I was pleasantly surprised, although two factors were helpful: 1) the 2006 model year boat is less than 20 years old, and 2) the slip location is up in the Ortega River, out of the coastal velocity zone.

On the other hand, there is nothing magical about that company. I formerly owned property in St. Petersburg, Florida that was above the flood plain and outside the velocity zone, amply insured by State Farm. After 21 years of faithfully paying my premiums and with never so much as a single claim, State Farm sent me a notice of non-renewal. Apparently their actuarial department calculated that the odds were increasingly in favor of me experiencing a covered loss for which they would have to pay a claim. In other words, they decided that the company had made all the profit off of me that they were likely to get. (It wasn't just me - they withdrew from the whole market).

Obviously, I am not bashing State Farm here in particular - it can happen (and does) with every insurer. Unlike life insurance, property and casualty insurance coverage is year-to-year, if that. When I evaluated the boat coverage recently offered to me by State Farm, I asked what would happen three years from now, when the boat reached 21 years of age. No guarantees, was the predictable answer.

Any risk can be insured, for a price, but at a certain point, the juice will no longer be worth the squeeze, so to speak. From now on, I believe that all of us who boat in Florida have to prepare ourselves to self-insure for risks other than liability.

 

[psneeld]

Liability, salvage and environmental protection were cheap if you dropped hull insurance and the miscellaneous. That's what I was about to do but sold the boat unexpectedly before renewing.

I I buy big again and have to spend cane season in Florida...it will be the best boat for the most amount of money I can afford to lose and just go with the 3 basics that are inexpensive for what they ultimately could cost.