How does radar affect my body?

[Pete Meisinger]

I know most boaters mount their radar high for better operation and less obstruction. I get it. However I don't want my radar up on my mast. It makes it very difficult to lower the mast, also makes the dome susceptable to damage while lowering it.

I am debating mounting it just below the windscreen on my flybridge. I know I will lose some, if not all my rear looking capacity and that doesn't concern me. My issue is what might the radar do to my body, or the body parts of the Admiral. We are both in our seventies so are not too concerned about reproduction but there are other things which might concern us (Cancer, eye damage, nerve damage, etc). There used to be a lot of worry or discussion about cordless phones cooking your brain, I have not heard much of this lately though.

Any thoughts ?

pete

 

[backinblue]

I'm no expert, but in your 70's I'd bet something other than radar will likely take you out. I often had similar thoughts about sailboats that had radar mounted on a mast at the rear of the cockpit and not all that high. How about lining your underwear with tin foil? I'm sure other "experts" here will weigh in. Don't mean to make light of a serious concern.

 

[KnotYet]

I know most boaters mount their radar high for better operation and less obstruction. I get it. However I don't want my radar up on my mast. It makes it very difficult to lower the mast, also makes the dome susceptable to damage while lowering it.

I am debating mounting it just below the windscreen on my flybridge. I know I will lose some, if not all my rear looking capacity and that doesn't concern me. My issue is what might the radar do to my body, or the body parts of the Admiral. We are both in our seventies so are not too concerned about reproduction but there are other things which might concern us (Cancer, eye damage, nerve damage, etc). There used to be a lot of worry or discussion about cordless phones cooking your brain, I have not heard much of this lately though.

Any thoughts ?

pete

The manufacturers will surely cover this in the installation notes and I would follow them.

Radars emit microwave radiation which is very well contained in a microwave oven.

 

[HTurner]

Mileage may vary:


https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/electronics/can-your-radar-really-hurt-you

 

[psneeld]

When I attended Furuno factory training for radar installers, I asked what the average 2 to 6 kw was an issue....

The Furuno tech said the only way it would possibly harm you is if you had to keep ducking the radar antenna sweep or stick your head inside the dome.

That p,us other data I have reviewed pretty well convinced me to take precautions but not be silly with fear.

I see the same joke reported in the above link....

 

[jgwinks]

Of interest to me too, I just mounted mine on the front of the fly bridge. No mast or arch, and a canvas Bimini top so no where else to put it. I remember years ago hearing a warning to traffic cops not to put their handheld radar guns in their lap while waiting for speeding cars. Was thought to cause testicular cancer. And the gun would have been in stand by until the speeder came along so not even transmitting at the time. This was about the same time that cell phones were said to cause brain tumors.

 

[markpierce]

If your chocolate bar melts unexpectedly, your radar could be the cause.

I don't worry with the radar 20-some feet above.

 

[High Wire]

If you are really concerned, newer radars have a programmable dead zone where the transmission turns off during part of the arc, or buy a new broadband radar that transmits at a much lower power level such as Simrad 3G and 4G.

 

[twistedtree]

There appear to be a few commonly accepted benchmark for allowed electromagnetic radiation from such devices. OSHA says 100W/sq meter.


Furuno, as an example, publishes the distances to 100W/sq meter, along with 50W, and 10W. Attached is an example for magnatron radars ranging from 12kw to 30kw, and for solid state radars of 600W and 250W.


Most of the distances are about the same as the swing radius of the antenna, if not less. So you would likely get hit in the head before you would get cooked.


You can also see that although the distance is shorter for a solid state radar, it really isn't significant in any practical way.


Now just what the implications are of these radiation levels really are - heck, I have no idea. But you have to go based on something, and this seems as good as anything.

 

[gsholz]

Good news is that electromagnetic radiation at radar wavelengths is non-ionizing, i.e. it won't strip away electrons from molecules (ionizing radiation is known to be cancer causing).

Radar essentially just heats your tissue like a microwave. Military radars can be dangerous at close range due to their power, consumer radars not so much. E.g. a 6kw consumer radar is not continuous, just a very short pulse, otherwise you'd be able to cook in front of your dome. I'd still not hang around an operating radar at eye level.

A level of 1000W/square meter is considered dangerous (eye cataracts, burns, etc). You won't get there with consumer equipment.

 

[psneeld]

Follow the science.....

 

[AlaskaProf]

E.g. a 6kw consumer radar is not continuous, just a very short pulse, otherwise you'd be able to cook in front of your dome. I'd still not hang around an operating radar at eye level.

Many years ago, I visited an FAA long-range radar site. The technicians would amuse visitors by throwing a light bulb in front of the antenna "sail"... of course that was a 5MW transmitter.

 

[MYTraveler]

Since absent a controlled study (and for all I know, various recommendations are based on such studies), theories may be wrong, we stop our 25kw before anyone goes up or down the tower ladder. Alternatively, modern radars have sector blanking, allowing you to program the radar not to emit during the part of its sweep that it could be pointed at a human.

 

[Lepke]

Did you read the story about the woman washed her dog, was in a hurry, so put him in the microwave to dry?


In the navy, we use to bbq steaks with our radar. Took about 5 minutes.


Why not mount the radar on a separate pole mount that can be lowered?

 

[Group9]

Did you read the story about the woman washed her dog, was in a hurry, so put him in the microwave to dry?


In the navy, we use to bbq steaks with our radar. Took about 5 minutes.


Why not mount the radar on a separate pole mount that can be lowered?

One of the assistant scoutmasters I worked with was assigned to an Aegeis cruiser and told amusing stories about finding birds on the decks that had been roasted and killed in flight by their phased array radar when it was operating at full power.

I also had a friend in the army who accidentally got irradiated by a large radar that was supposed to be off that they were all standing in front of and he said he could actually feel his body start to heat up.

I'm guessing but nothing I could afford would have any kind of power like that!

 

[jleonard]

Follow the science.....

This and the manufacturer's installation guidelines. They put those in the instruction manual for a reason.

 

[OldDan1943]

Raise your "sea state" a bit. Yes, it will create blind spot a bit depending upon the adjustment.

I would not trust the manufacture too much. Example: the current developing history of various agriculture chemicals. Lots of lawyers are buying time on the TV touting how they can get you big bucks. At the time, 'they' thought the chemicals were safe and later it was determined they were not safe.
Many vets have and are dying due to their exposure to Agent Orange. The Feds fought that settlement hoping all the vets would die before the cases made it through the courts.

 

[psneeld]

Big difference between specific chemicals and very generic non ionizing radiation that has been studied extensively and has had a lot of practical experience for the last 80 years.

 

[Landfall]

Most radars, especially the domes, are very light. I have mounted radars on the mast of two different trawlers and found little to no difference in raising or lowering the mast. If you are talking a large unit it may matter more.

 

[firehoser75]

Pete,
I am a cautious type. For me, I would not install the radar dome right in front of where I plan to sit all day. Plus, I would not be happy with a radar that only showed about 180 degrees (only in front) of my situation. In fog, especially in a slow trawler, you can be overtaken from astern or at an angle that your radar would not show! This would mean that the radar would only be about 50% effective and in a way give a false sense of security.

Minimizing your personal exposure to any form of radiation is never a bad thing!! Mount it on your mast where radiation exposure would be basically non-existent, where it can operate as designed giving a complete "picture" of your "environment", and figure out a way to lower the mast in a safe, easy manner.
Why would you want to operate in a "lose/lose" manner where the radar operates way less than optimally and at the same time might actually be causing damage to your long term health? Just my humble opinion.

 

[SteveK]

My radar installation guide showed and suggested mounting so the beam is not going through your body. While newer radar are less risky, and no longer fry steak, play it safe.

BTW, how many of you are using a laptop.

Laptops emit EMFs in many different frequencies, and these EMFs can be extremely harmful to your health. Your vital organs also get an unhealthy dose of electromagnetic radiation from your laptop computer, if you make a habit of actually putting it on your lap.

 

[JWellington]

Pete, yes there had been lots of worry, but no evidence its harmful.

 

[OldDan1943]

A lot of things used to be considered safe.... Hand me another cigarette.

 

[oscar]

I can not talk about the jokes we made pulling up to a terminal in an airplane...... (The radar is in the nose cone.)

I've owned my boat for a year now and have yet to use the radar. Done enough night and shitty weather navigating in my lifetime. If I can't see enough there's no need to be out there.

As far as the "if you have it it must be on" stuff..... it's in a dome.

 

[backinblue]

Just a quick comment on the radar showing boats overtaking you. I'm fairly new to radar so please correct me if I am wrong. I only have a single display, so when I use radar I use it in overlay mode over my GPS chart. My boat is shown pretty close to the bottom of the screen so there is very little visibility to what is behind me. In my case, if the radar was not transmitting for 45 degrees or so astern, I don't think I'd really be missing anything.

 

[Group9]

And, from what I have read, the newer 4G radars are even safer.

 

[firehoser75]

Like plotters, radar displays can be adjusted. It sounds like you are using an "offset". My radar positioned my boat in the middle of the screen. I rarely used the overlay, as I preferred to have 2 separate displays.
I agree with Dan, why risk it? Why trust manufacturer's trying to sell a product to be totally honest or even to have completely studied the issue?
Personally, I would rather error on the side of caution when it comes to my health and I have a choice. To each his own.

 

[backinblue]

Like plotters, radar displays can be adjusted. It sounds like you are using an "offset". My radar positioned my boat in the middle of the screen. I rarely used the overlay, as I preferred to have 2 separate displays.
I agree with Dan, why risk it? Why trust manufacturer's trying to sell a product to be totally honest or even to have completely studied the issue?
Personally, I would rather error on the side of caution when it comes to my health and I have a choice. To each his own.

Like I said I only have 1 display. If I use just the radar screen, my boat is in the center. If I use the chart overlay, my boat is at the bottom of the screen as it normally is using GPS, and the radar returns are shown on top of it, hence, no real radar images astern.

 

[OldDan1943]

Ideally, any boat that will overtake you, will alert you via VHF and or a horn. A backdown camera, adjusted a tad bit higher will help also.
It is nice to have a RADAR scanning aft but, is it really necessary if you are on the fly bridge?

 

[backinblue]

I don't know, I don't have one of those either! I don't remember ever being in a situation of being rear-ended on the water, but I guess it's possible.