Ais on or off

[fgarriso]

Can you point me to those rules please?

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-33/chapter-I/subchapter-P/part-164/section-164.46

 

[psneeld]

Going by the rules your AIS is to be "ON" 24/7 unless your in drydock.

This was shown to be incorrect by the rules posted several times now.

Even just docked, you only have to turn it on when departing.... just a few minutes before.

 

[koliver]

But FWIW, I think the Mark I* Eyeball also fits into that "all available means appropriate to..." thing, too.



-Chris

Rule 5
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper lookout by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

 

[Porgy]

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-33/chapter-I/subchapter-P/part-164/section-164.46

Only for vessels that are required to have AIS. Recreational vessels are not required to have AIS by paragraph (b) so therefore not required to have it on at all (other than prudent use of all means available to avoid risk of collision…) much less 24/7 by paragraph (d)(v) which cites paragraph (b).

 

[OldDan1943]

Personally, I set up one MFD with chart, the other MFD with RADAR and AIS. 3 displays all with course up. Just my preface.

 

[HTurner]

More grist for the mill:


https://www.atlanticarea.uscg.mil/O...-Houston-Galveston/Units/VTS-Port-Arthur/AIS/

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

You folks that keep posting the rules are misleading the group. Except Porgy.

You fail to post NOT REQUIRED on recreational vessel. (Unless in a VTS area) Required on on commercial.

 

[Simi 60]

You folks that keep posting the rules are misleading the group. Except Porgy.

You fail to post NOT REQUIRED on recreational vessel. (Unless in a VTS area) Required on on commercial.

Correct

 

[OldDan1943]

Correct

Yes, the 20 meter rule

 

[Simi 60]

Yes, the 20 meter rule

Can you quote that rule and how it relates to rec vessels?

 

[sunchaser]

A boat broker I spoke to two weeks ago stated that he had personally had multiple dinghies stolen in Bellingham Washington in the last few years. I don't know any more specifics than that, but if you PM me, I'd be happy to give you his contact info. Maybe you can ask him if Bellingham is in the PNW as well!

A few years ago a TF member was sleeping aboard his Hampton 65 in Lake Union. He woke up as his vessel was moving away from the dock. Our daughter was asleep on our boat when the next door boat was stolen, in the St Louis area.

In several BC marinas high end coolers left on deck are favorite targets as are outboards on transom mounted dinghies per insurance company.

 

[OldDan1943]

Can you quote that rule and how it relates to rec vessels?

No I cant.
As I understand it, if your boat under 20 meters, the required electronic is nada,zero, There are rules addressing, the required safety equipment.
I think there is an additional phrase about something about, ‘not involved in commercial trade‘ but, dont quote me on that.
I will add, if you are trying minimally equip your boat, I will catch the next boat.

 

[Simi 60]

No I cant.
As I understand it, if your boat under 20 meters, the required electronic is nada,zero, There are rules addressing, the required safety equipment.
I think there is an additional phrase about something about, ‘not involved in commercial trade‘ but, dont quote me on that.

Well, the regs have been listed in this post before

I will add, if you are trying minimally equip your boat, I will catch the next boat.

And then there's those that have "all the gear but no idea"

 

[psneeld]

Well, the regs have been listed in this post before




And then there's those that have "all the gear but no idea"

 

[Greg QS]

On all the time. Hidden switching, In the event of a thief stealing the boat, I will be able to track the location.

 

[Hippocampus]

Hope those with high end security systems, tracking devices and such have installed harden power sources for these systems independent of the boats standard battery and electrical system operation. My understanding is organized rings of thieves target a vessel and are sophisticated enough to disable the security systems very rapidly. Depending upon local law enforcement tracking devices are of limited value.
Unlike dinghies and particularly dinghy engines documented vessels aren’t liquid assets that can be turned into cash rapidly. Rather theft may be more likely result in gutting the vessel for valuable components and abandonment. By the time anyone responds to the tracking (if anyone ever does) the thieves are long gone.
It’s said locks and security systems prevent honest people from doing dishonest things. Now with battery powered saws and hydraulically augmented cutters have come to think no cable, chain nor alarm will prevent theft. However, do firmly believe you only need to be faster than the slowest person running from the bear. Using a chain instead of a cable and locking an engine independently using an harden device means the thieves will go to the next dinghy over. Same with the boat. Simple pressure pads, lights and horn means you’re just a little bit harder to steal from than the next guy. When cruising we leave all the jewelry at home. We dress subdued not flashy. We use our street sense to avoid “Bonfire of the Vanities” situations. Got friendly over the years with local Caribbean islanders. They told me with a glance they knew who was off a cruise ship, who was wandering away from their resort and who was a cruiser. The friends I made were good honest people who also had to deal with local crime risks. Although cruisers were at risk if they used their common sense and followed the advice above they were at lower risk than the tourists off cruise ships and resorts. Noonsite is a great resource as is talking with locals about your plans. Local knowledge both in your home country as well as elsewhere is extremely helpful in avoiding crime.

 

[SteveK]

On all the time. Hidden switching, In the event of a thief stealing the boat, I will be able to track the location.

Greg, Why would you want to have this information readily available for a thief?

39° 47' 59.8" N, 074° 11' 00.1" W
The vessel is currently at port FRESH CREEK, US after a voyage of 1 month, 25 days originating from port NEW YORK, US.

There are security systems that can alert you of the boat position without letting everyone else also know.

 

[Hippocampus]

SK makes a good point. For the 1%ers on their mega yachts and targets of potential kidnappings it’s forbidden to disclose ownership or if the principals are on board from what I’ve been told. They are stuck with the >20m rules but still do what they can to lower their profile.
You see folks using a cute permutation of their boats name or T/T on their dinghy. Never understood the motivation. It’s like advertising to thieves - no one on my boat. Come on in and steal what you want.
For the trip between Grenada and Trinidad the threat of piracy is a real concern. Several approaches. One is to assemble a flotilla of many cruising boats staying within vhf range of each other with AIS on and hopefully tracked by the authorities. Other is to go it alone and black. No AIS, no communication with the outside world. Some even remove their radar reflectors. I hear (no personal knowledge) same with the ABCs. Like Trinidad run way offshore making a perpendicular approach from far offshore and again either buddy boat or go black.

Doubt there’s more than a few here >20m. But all here could decrease their risk by being seen as well as seeing. Both radar and AIS allow both. When I first started sailing there was a device that had 8 little lights marking relative points of the compass. It detected radar kind of like a radio detection finders. Think that’s much like the current AIS receivers. Although the RDF had some utility in navigation always thought any receiver had little benefit. In a trawler or sailboat you’re a slow moving target to another vessel. You generally need time to get out of the way. Having the other vessel knowing who you are and where you are greatly facilitates are you getting out of the way or they are. Often it avoids the need for any VHF communication. Preferred passes and crossings are defined in the rules of the road. But more followed in the exception by many. Too many don’t know them. Too many don’t monitor their VHFs. Too many don’t know signals. Understand many have chosen to not have transceivers. Some hold to what I think is the mistaken belief a receiver addresses all the risks. Still implore those here to blow the few bucks to get a transceiver and leave it on when underway (except when piracy is a realistic concern). View it the same as having an adequate radar return.

 

[mvweebles]

I'll date myself here as most of my experience predates affordable AIS. Assume AIS is for vessel identification and collision avoidance. If so, why on earth would you leave it on 24/7? Are there not other apps to leave location breadcrumbs for friends and family?

I know it sounds rhetorical, but it's a legitimate question.

Peter

 

[Hippocampus]

We don’t Peter except as said before on the exceptional occasions when you’re anchored and there’s continuing traffic close by. The other occasions have been when we’ve arrived at a large anchorage (Rodney Bay and LeMarin come to mind) and we’re expecting other boats to join us. Then it’s useful so they can anchor nearby and avoid long dinghy trips to socialize. Generally speaking my cruising friends all have transceivers so the AIS is much easier than any app or breadcrumb device.

 

[ranger58sb]

I'll date myself here as most of my experience predates affordable AIS. Assume AIS is for vessel identification and collision avoidance. If so, why on earth would you leave it on 24/7? Are there not other apps to leave location breadcrumbs for friends and family?

I know it sounds rhetorical, but it's a legitimate question.

Peter

Well, the original question here was about anchorages. And it's theoretically possible an AIS signal in a dark anchorage could help an incomer avoid collision/allision.

-Chris

 

[mvweebles]

Well, the original question here was about anchorages. And it's theoretically possible an AIS signal in a dark anchorage could help an incomer avoid collision/allision.



-Chris

Bit of a stretch but a fair point.

I think the bottom line is binary: do you leave AIS on unless a reason to turn off? Or do you leave off unless a reason to turn on? It's a gizmo - guessing people turn on because they can, not because it's useful.

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

I think the bottom line is binary: do you leave AIS on unless a reason to turn off? Or do you leave off unless a reason to turn on? It's a gizmo - guessing people turn on because they can, not because it's useful.

Could be an artifact of installation, too. I now know I could have a "silent switch" added to our new one... but I didn't know that during initial shopping, installation, etc...

So in the meantime, the 24VDC power shut-off routine -- to the AIS transponder, not just the viewing MFDs -- isn't very elegant...

So the thing stays on all the time. At least for now. Low priority, changing that. Not sure it'd offer any real improvement, anyway.

-Chris

 

[Simi 60]

Bit of a stretch but a fair point.

I think the bottom line is binary: do you leave AIS on unless a reason to turn off? Or do you leave off unless a reason to turn on? It's a gizmo - guessing people turn on because they can, not because it's useful.

Peter

Option 2 for us
Leave off unless a reason to turn on

Easy as it has a switch

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

My system is Raymarine. I have a physical switch and an electronic switch on my MFD to turn off/on my AIS.

 

[fgarriso]

Why would you want to turn it OFF?

Are you a smuggler ?

 

[psneeld]

Why would you want to turn it OFF?

Are you a smuggler ?

When moored/docked.

 

[SteveK]

Why would you want to turn it OFF?

Are you a smuggler ?

I must be a smuggler, I plan to keep AIS send & receive physically off the boat.
Must be the ornery come with age attitude.

 

[BruceK]

Why would you want to turn it OFF?

Are you a smuggler ?

Budgie Smuggler.