Hurricane Ian Ripple Effects: Questions for the Professionals on the Forum

[Simi 60]

And then there are the absentee owners... dependent on local support... most of which is already over-subscribed...

But Hurricane/Cyclone season doesn't just appear.
They had a whole year to get their ducks in a row.

To my way of thinking they fit in the couldn't be bothered category
Insurance companies or at least some of them, think the same.

From the earlier article I linked to

“These people who sit at their desk in one of the Southern capitals, and say they could not get to the boat, did not want to pay anyone to do the work, and anyway that’s what insurance is for are on notice. Take that attitude, but do get ready, because your insurer will not respond. If enough people continue in this way, then no one may be able to get cover very soon!”


https://www.pantaenius.com/au-en/in...il/news/taking-responsibility-for-your-craft/

 

[Group9]

Imagine yourself in Ft. Myers several days before Ian landfall... which was at the time predicted to be Tampa area.

At a marina with decent floating docks and a pretty OK track record.

With few places available for haul-out, high enough to handle expected storm surge and with and effective anchoring, most already spoken-for under hurricane planning contract.

Where would you go? When would you have left? Up river and into the Lake would be an option, maybe... but otherwise? And even if you went into the lake, then what?

And then there are the absentee owners... dependent on local support... most of which is already over-subscribed...

We were in Legacy Harbour for June/July 2021... with a dead boat (engine work underway, but not usable). Towing options were limited, and there weren't really viable places to tow to. Given that experience, I can imagine many (most?) owners just couldn't find or execute a viable Plan B...

-Chris

In my boating experience with hurricanes, over forty years, the key thing in my opinion, is to come up with your viable hurricane options, before a hurricane is bearing down on you. Waiting until you are in the cone, three days from landfall, is not the time to be trying to figure out what to do with your boat.

We have a plan A, B, and C for what to do with our boat when a hurricane threatens. And, as far as being absent: This summer, we went to Hawaii for two weeks. Before we left, I put our boat in it’s hurricane hole, with a friend lined up to do Daily checks on it. Because, I wasn’t going to fly back early (there for our son’s wedding).

No, you can’t plan for everything, but you can plan for most things. Especially the ones that happen on a regular basis. Like hurricanes down south.

 

[garbler]

I always find it amazing that most people I know don’t know what a ‘ditch bag ‘ is. Whether it be a hurricane fire or any other catastrophe when the alarms go off and you have to get out NOW. The ditch bag, or bags, is your savior. This is essentially a stash of things you need to evacuate with and remain intact and safe when everything around you is chaos. Basic food, clothing,medications, lights and batteries, first aid kit, a handgun, cash, etc. etc. . Plus ten gallons of extra vehicle fuel. No time to put this together when you’re stressed and confused so put one together.

Rick

 

[ranger58sb]

We live on the Great Lakes and actually love it. No rust from salt water. No harsh south Florida sun. Nothing in the water that will eat you. Yes we do have winter but that is when we get lots of work done on the boat. No hurricanes. Lower insurance rates. We get to dock our boat right behind our house. Lots of great things here.

My comments should have read: Might be nice enough up there, but I wouldn't want to have to keep our boat in the Great Lakes while living here near the Chesapeake.

Didn't mean to make it sound pejorative.

1% ?
Luxury, that was the Dreamtime back in the 90's for us.

We currently pay about 3% of insured value.

Well, it's a variable equation. The insurance $$$ is the insurance $$$. Those percentage just happen to be our current situation. As the boat value goes down over time (or size, or age, or whatever), the percentage goes up. While the insurance $$$ remains the same... or probably increases.

In my boating experience with hurricanes, over forty years, the key thing in my opinion, is to come up with your viable hurricane options, before a hurricane is bearing down on you. Waiting until you are in the cone, three days from landfall, is not the time to be trying to figure out what to do with your boat.

We have a plan A, B, and C for what to do with our boat when a hurricane threatens.

No, you can’t plan for everything, but you can plan for most things. Especially the ones that happen on a regular basis. Like hurricanes down south.

Yep, agree. We too have an A, B, and C... even though hurricanes are less common here where we are.

But at least we have options... that don't necessarily leave only the final "get out of boating" version.

-Chris

 

[Hippocampus]

For decades have had insurance for entire east coast including Canada, Atlantic Ocean out to past Bermuda, Bahamas and Caribbean. Have had various insurance companies. All have had rules about the “Zone” with fairly minor variations in definition and timing. All have had “storm plan” with significant variation as the risk has increased with the years. With rare exceptions we are not in the zone during hurricane season. Neither are the vast majority of my cruising friends. On those rare occasions a invest or significant wave is predicted to impact our area we leave. We pay a lot of attention to the west coast of Africa. We’ve stayed in the south coast of Grenada which is out of the zone but had plans in place to go to Trinidad which is well out of the zone. In short we planned for the seasons not individual named storms.
Elsewhere due to winter storms and freeze risk people from the mid Atlantic through the Maritimes haul seasonally. Again they plan for seasons not named storms. They do not enter the US southeast below Cape Hatteras until after November 1.
People who keep boats below Hatteras during hurricane season are the exception. Perhaps this is too strongly stated but my feeling is they assume this risk with eyes wide open. I think it’s unreasonable for them or insurance companies to ask those who recognize this risk and act to decrease the risk by moving their boats out of the zone or into hurricane moorings or following a strict hurricane plan to assume the risk of those who don’t. As expensive and inconvenient it is for cruisers to act responsibly and respect the zone or for those in colder climes to haul we do it.
I understand there’s not sufficient dry storage in Florida. I understand owners try their best to secure their boats. I do not understand why in advance of the season those boats aren’t either moved out of the zone or the owners are forced to assume the financial, emotional, and legal risks involved. I realize this might decimate the Floridian boating industry and impact the lifestyle of the boaters there. I see this as no different as the impact of winter on more northerly boaters.
Ok rip me apart as being cold and unfeeling. Through the years more than 1/2 my storage/dockage expenses have been driven by the seasons. Yes I feel terrible about those who lost boats. But I feel much worst about Sandy than Ian. The risk outlook was much different.

 

[O C Diver]

People who keep boats below Hatteras during hurricane season are the exception. Perhaps this is too strongly stated but my feeling is they assume this risk with eyes wide open. I think it’s unreasonable for them or insurance companies to ask those who recognize this risk and act to decrease the risk by moving their boats out of the zone or into hurricane moorings or following a strict hurricane plan to assume the risk of those who don’t. As expensive and inconvenient it is for cruisers to act responsibly and respect the zone or for those in colder climes to haul we do it.
I understand there’s not sufficient dry storage in Florida. I understand owners try their best to secure their boats. I do not understand why in advance of the season those boats aren’t either moved out of the zone or the owners are forced to assume the financial, emotional, and legal risks involved. I realize this might decimate the Floridian boating industry and impact the lifestyle of the boaters there. I see this as no different as the impact of winter on more northerly boaters.
Ok rip me apart as being cold and unfeeling. Through the years more than 1/2 my storage/dockage expenses have been driven by the seasons. Yes I feel terrible about those who lost boats. But I feel much worst about Sandy than Ian. The risk outlook was much different.

What's lacking in your analysis is the percentage of boats damaged by a hurricane in Florida. I don't know the percentage, but it's probably quite small. Do you think the percentage of non trailerable boats in Florida destroyed by hurricane Ian was greater than 1%?

I think it's pretty clear that Florida boaters pay rates based on whether they are in state or out during hurricane season. If I would choose to be below Savannah during hurricane season, my rate would double for the same coverage.

Imo, when rates go up in the Northeast, it's far easier to blame a hurricane in Florida as opposed boat theft in your state or liability claims in boating accidents. Btw, with an 8+% national inflation rate, what part of any boat insurance claim (other than total loss on agreed value) isn't going up 8%? Is anyone not expecting their premiums to go up this year or next?

Ted

 

[Hydraulicjump]

Reality check for me. My annual insurance cost as a percentage of insured value through CHUBB is 0.4%. I have some room to adapt thanks to help from a very good insurance broker.

 

[rslifkin]

Cost seems to be a bigger issue for older boats, especially with younger owners. At some point I'll need to get a fresh survey done (costs $$$ of course) so I can shop around more for insurance again. But at the moment, with a 3% deductible, the best I've been able to do for full coverage is 3.5% of the insured hull value. I'm thinking I at least need to look at raising my deductible a bit to see how big a difference that makes, but I don't remember it being a huge difference when I last shopped around.

 

[Hippocampus]

Good points Ted. Suspect payouts are at least in part if not totally shared wider than you suggest. I have no knowledge about this. Perhaps someone in the industry can set us straight.
Boat theft for documented boats is quite low from what I understand in the northeast.Have never heard of a single case myself. Very unlike trailer boats and PWCs.
Fair number of people carry liability and hazmat only and otherwise self insure.
Fort Myers to sanibel is a big area. Not even including damage on the east coast suspect claims to be a very large number exceeding Sandy or Katrina. My next store neighbor up here lost their house down there. They suspect their trailer boat in their driveway is damaged as well. It was locked to the outside of their house.
Have friends who lost boats and houses from Sandy. They are still not made whole now years later. They are responsible people with flood insurance. Remain disappointed as a country we are not adequately doing mitigation projects at a reasonable pace. Are not creating sufficient financial incentives to curtail development of at risk coastal regions. Are not changing codes, and nature of insurance pay outs to enhance rebuilding to increase resiliency adequately.
Locally if you rebuild you must increase resiliency to a defined degree or you don’t get a occupancy certificate. Otherwise you get the payout don’t rebuild and leave after you clear the debris.
End of day in many areas of the country places are at risk from the downstream effects of MMCC. Regardless of any current or future measures to slow MMCC those risks remain. Yes the forest service may have screwed up out west and extreme development has placed the south east at particular risk but at a personal level think there’s still a disconnect between risk and behavior.
Two of my favorite writers are John D. MacDonald and a Carl Hiasen. Both wrote about the transition of Florida to where folks live in denial of the realities of human nature and the environment. John maybe long dead but the complaints of Travis remain

 

[O C Diver]

Cost seems to be a bigger issue for older boats, especially with younger owners. At some point I'll need to get a fresh survey done (costs $$$ of course) so I can shop around more for insurance again. But at the moment, with a 3% deductible, the best I've been able to do for full coverage is 3.5% of the insured hull value. I'm thinking I at least need to look at raising my deductible a bit to see how big a difference that makes, but I don't remember it being a huge difference when I last shopped around.

Without getting into the value of your boat, liability premiums probably aren’t hugely different for 2 identical boats that are 30 years apart in age. So part of your premium consideration is how much is liability versus hull insurance. If the newer boat is worth $500K and the older boat is $100K, the premium as a percentage of hull value will likely be higher on the less expensive boat because the liability portion will be about the same.

Ted

 

[rslifkin]

Without getting into the value of your boat, liability premiums probably aren’t hugely different for 2 identical boats that are 30 years apart in age. So part of your premium consideration is how much is liability versus hull insurance. If the newer boat is worth $500K and the older boat is $100K, the premium as a percentage of hull value will likely be higher on the less expensive boat because the liability portion will be about the same.

Ted

Good point. If I remember correctly, liability is listed as a pretty small portion (like 20% of the total insurance cost). So the bulk of the cost seems to be related to hull coverage on a 36 year old boat.

 

[ranger58sb]

People who keep boats below Hatteras during hurricane season are the exception. Perhaps this is too strongly stated but my feeling is they assume this risk with eyes wide open. I think it’s unreasonable for them or insurance companies to ask those who recognize this risk and act to decrease the risk by moving their boats out of the zone or into hurricane moorings or following a strict hurricane plan to assume the risk of those who don’t.

I understand there’s not sufficient dry storage in Florida. I understand owners try their best to secure their boats.

I do not understand why in advance of the season those boats aren’t either moved out of the zone or the owners are forced to assume the financial, emotional, and legal risks involved.

I suspect some percentage of damaged boats down there will have been owned and managed in exactly that way: liability only insurance, and the owner writes off the rest. Don't know how large a percentage of damaged boats that might be.

As to moving, yes, I think theoretically easy to choose that option. Practically speaking, not as easy, given that the movement should probably happen a week before landfall... otherwise you're in a washing machine during transit.

Using this case as an example, where would you move to? Tampa? No wait, that's where landfall was predicted. Key West? That might well have worked this time, but it's almost never a good choice given existing pressure on Key West infrastructure. Apalachicola, or points further west? Not bad, although the predicted zone likely meant guessing further west (Pensacola?) would be decent -- even if it did eventually turn out that far west wouldn't have been necessary. Anyway, on it goes...

At the same time Harry Home/Boatowner down there is maybe also dealing with home issues. (I think it took us two days to just put up our storm shutters when we lived in South Florida...)

Our plans up here are easier, but not perfectly straightforward. Our own boatyard can haul us, at the rate of 5-7 boats/day; with ~400 boats on site, gotta decide way early. And then if storm surge exceeds about 8' (a guess) we'd float off the blocks. Other boatyards can be higher, but then everybody and his brother is competing for slots there, too.

There are a few local marinas with new floating docks and VERY TALL piles, some even in slightly wind protected areas. Good, but getting there comfortably means leaving home at least 4 days early. (Not horrible, actually.) Larger changes in area are a crapshoot. When Sandy was coming north, moving to Delaware Bay looked like an alternative... but it turned out Sandy came ashore on Delaware Bay... so we'd have been slightly screwed. And on it goes.

I guess bottom line for me is just that I can recognize the quandary for owners in the Ft. Myers area... and I expect a percentage of owners weren't just sloughing it all off...

-Chris

 

[Hippocampus]

Totally agree with you Chris. That’s why I think plans should be seasonal. Not for a individual event. So many people snowbird to avoid winter cold and nor’easters. Don’t understand why people don’t stormbird coming north for hurricane season. Added benefit is the cruising in northern waters is real nice in summer and fall. The waters stay warm for quite awhile.
Previously for the boats of documented size in the Caribbean the routine was either Grenada or Trinidad if you wanted to avoid passage. Or Chesapeake/ New England if you didn’t mind passage. Or for the bigger brethren Maine or the Med to capture some charters seemed popular. . My impression is in many places other than Florida it’s pretty routine to just leave the area during hurricane/typhoon/cyclonic storm season. My impression is Doc Ford didn’t have to worry about strong hurricanes as much as we do now. But behavior hasn’t changed. Perhaps between inflation, the upcoming recession and this or future major hurricanes attitudes may change.
Also agree those southern boaters mothers had no dumb kids. Clearly a “eyes wide open” decision. Perhaps the culture may change with time and a seasonal migration north by southern based boaters will increase. Or the volume of midsized boats in the south east will decrease.
With Sandy our plan was to go up past Albany on the Hudson. Fortunately it wasn’t a risk we were subject to. Floridians are in a tough spot being so flat even going way in to someplace like indiantown doesn’t completely eliminate risk. Unfortunately the real answer is to not be in the zone. Should treat it like Barbados, PR, BVI or other places that get hit time and time again.

 

[Hippocampus]

To put it another way. You’re looking at ~$10-15k and 3 weeks or less for most of us to leave the zone and go somewhere for secure storage or use. Not a extreme hardship given humid summers in Florida aren’t most peoples cup of tea. That includes fuel. I understand for many hardworking people it’s time not money that makes that onerous. But the trip doesn’t mean you’re depending upon satellite communication nor does it require it need be done all at once. Yes breaking it up adds expense but at some point if you can’t ante up don’t let them deal to you.

 

[O C Diver]

Don’t understand why people don’t stormbird coming north for hurricane season.

Maybe this might help you understand.
I own a home in Fort Myers. It's about 20 years old and built to the Broward County hurricane standards. Ian tore a couple of screens in the lanai and destroyed some landscaping. I was lucky. In choosing my home 15 years ago, high ground, 7 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, and hurricane resistant design were high priorities. The house and contents are fully insured.

If I had been there when Ian was approaching, I would have left several days in advance. Everything is insured. It's either going to be fine, not be fine, or gone. That's what insurance is for.

How is a boat different? My marina is protected by a barrier island, has floating docks that handled the storm surge, and survived 3 hurricanes including Irma without any significant boat damage. Around 80 to 90% of the boats survived with some or no damage. The boat owners I know, in my marina probably took extra precautions to secure their boats and have them fully insured. For most, it worked out well. For some, there will be an insurance claim. How is this different than the house that they own? Why should owning a boat in Fort Myers in hurricane season be different than owning a house there? This is where they live and boat.

Ted

 

[rgano]

To the original post; I don't think Ian was a major boating loss event (it was to those who lost, for sure) because the area of coast affected is small, and a good portion of it is NOT lined up with boat after boat waiting to be destroyed. We are just seeing the same photos over and over. Most boats are on trailers at homes. I predict a ripple in the insurance industry re: boating because of Ian.

Regarding the idea of prep; I believe we have seen all sides of that argument cussed and discussed especially concerning various owner motivations and limited availability of both haulout (which I will NEVER do having seen a few blown over boats in yards) and convenient hurricane hole locations. There isn't much left to say about it except that either you are deadly serious about protecting the boat and know how, or you are not - luck has a very little to do with avoiding damage/loss in a hurricane. Bowing to the man with the boat's engines being repaired, I think placing yourself out of range and leaving a big boat at a mooring or in a marina in Florida during hurricane season without a dedicated and knowledgeable crew (NOT marina dock boys) to care for it in the event of an approaching storm is simply irresponsible, and your insurance company should not be liable to pay you one red cent for named storm coverage if that is your method.

 

[Group9]

Maybe this might help you understand.
I own a home in Fort Myers. It's about 20 years old and built to the Broward County hurricane standards. Ian tore a couple of screens in the lanai and destroyed some landscaping. I was lucky. In choosing my home 15 years ago, high ground, 7 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, and hurricane resistant design were high priorities. The house and contents are fully insured.

If I had been there when Ian was approaching, I would have left several days in advance. Everything is insured. It's either going to be fine, not be fine, or gone. That's what insurance is for.

How is a boat different? My marina is protected by a barrier island, has floating docks that handled the storm surge, and survived 3 hurricanes including Irma without any significant boat damage. Around 80 to 90% of the boats survived with some or no damage. The boat owners I know, in my marina probably took extra precautions to secure their boats and have them fully insured. For most, it worked out well. For some, there will be an insurance claim. How is this different than the house that they own? Why should owning a boat in Fort Myers in hurricane season be different than owning a house there? This is where they live and boat.

Ted

Unfortunately, a lot of hurricane knowledge is gained the hard way, when finding out we were wrong. But, I don't know how anyone who saw the damage that Katrina and Michael did to marinas could feel good about leaving their boat in one in a Cat 4 or better hurricane.

I suspect most of the people who leave their boats in marinas during Hurricanes, are the people who don't care if insurance rates go up. The last hurricane we had at our marina, about a dozen boat owners just refused to move. Every bit of damage our marina took, was from those boats hitting things, before they sunk. It just made it harder for the rest of to bring our boats back after it was over. The marina threatened to go after them for the damage, but I don't think it ever happened.

 

[backinblue]

I'm at about 0.6% in CT with Progressive

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

We live on the Great Lakes and actually love it. No rust from salt water. No harsh south Florida sun. Nothing in the water that will eat you. Yes we do have winter but that is when we get lots of work done on the boat. No hurricanes. Lower insurance rates. We get to dock our boat right behind our house. Lots of great things here.

We are fresh water in the winter and salt in the summer. The PNW is a great place to be, but

Greetings,
Mr. C. Regards your post #55...

DITTO

 

[Hippocampus]

Maybe this might help you understand.
I own a home in Fort Myers. It's about 20 years old and built to the Broward County hurricane standards. Ian tore a couple of screens in the lanai and destroyed some landscaping. I was lucky. In choosing my home 15 years ago, high ground, 7 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, and hurricane resistant design were high priorities. The house and contents are fully insured.

If I had been there when Ian was approaching, I would have left several days in advance. Everything is insured. It's either going to be fine, not be fine, or gone. That's what insurance is for.

How is a boat different? My marina is protected by a barrier island, has floating docks that handled the storm surge, and survived 3 hurricanes including Irma without any significant boat damage. Around 80 to 90% of the boats survived with some or no damage. The boat owners I know, in my marina probably took extra precautions to secure their boats and have them fully insured. For most, it worked out well. For some, there will be an insurance claim. How is this different than the house that they own? Why should owning a boat in Fort Myers in hurricane season be different than owning a house there? This is where they live and boat.

Ted

Appreciate the education. Like you there are many thoughtful people on both coasts of Florida. One of my best friends was borne in Delray. He keeps his boat on the east coast not the west. He’s fortunate being able to secure a good resistance place though his connections and having the necessary funds. He has paid the annual fee even when cruising has taken him elsewhere due to fear he would lose that berth. Unfortunately that’s not always the case. Friends in Englewood lost their lanai but nothing else. Like you some plan for eventualities, some don’t. My live aboard friends with no dirt dwelling rotate cruising grounds with the season.

 

[O C Diver]

Unfortunately, a lot of hurricane knowledge is gained the hard way, when finding out we were wrong. But, I don't know how anyone who saw the damage that Katrina and Michael did to marinas could feel good about leaving their boat in one in a Cat 4 or better hurricane.

I suspect most of the people who leave their boats in marinas during Hurricanes, are the people who don't care if insurance rates go up. The last hurricane we had at our marina, about a dozen boat owners just refused to move. Every bit of damage our marina took, was from those boats hitting things, before they sunk. It just made it harder for the rest of to bring our boats back after it was over. The marina threatened to go after them for the damage, but I don't think it ever happened.

Unfortunately, hauling out isn't necessarily better. Hundreds of boats floated off the blocks during Sandy and other hurricanes. Boats over 35', especially with high superstructure get blown over by hurricanes while on blocks. I have weathered a couple of hurricanes with the trawler in the water as I felt it was safer in the water than in available boatyards. My charter boat rode out 3 or 4 hurricane in water at Ocean City, MD. Yards with concrete slabs and anchors to strap the boats down are the exception not the majority.

All that being said, you need to follow the marina contract or be liable for the consequences. Too many people pick a marina based on the Tiki bar or distance from the parking lot..

Ted

 

[Hippocampus]

Briefly had a boat in the zone (st.Vincent) during the season. Keel in a pit.immensely strong straps every 10’ anchored to huge concrete blocks. Although had a sun cover for UV protection that and the external AC unit were removed by yacht management for any named storm. 30’ above high water and buttoned up. Didn’t see a hurricane but did see storm force multiple times. She did fine. Friend in Sopers had significant damage during that same period. Following year he lost the boat as another cruising cat landed on top of his at that same BVI yard. Still think you make bulletproof plans as best you can or leave. Leaving still seems the better odds to me.
My son in-laws childhood house in Rockaway was decimated by Sandy. They had it for four generations. He and his brother are skilled in construction. Over a number of years they were able to rebuild it for their mom. They had effective flood insurance but many of their neighbors didn’t due to cost. You see the same be it Texas, Louisiana, Florida and elsewhere. Continue to think storms are more severe and will continue to be so. You may have gotten by but unfortunately in so many places our fellow Americans do not. They neither have the money nor due to attachments of various sorts to have options at present to lower their risk to their property and lives.
One of the cases before the Supreme Court’s new session involves whether owners can fill in wetlands for development. In many areas they are our barrier to severe storm damage. Definite conflict. Housing on shorelines or mitigation of storm effects.

 

[hmason]

I really love this Monday morning quarter backing. I was up north for Sandy, my boat in the water. Boats that were hauled were destroyed as the domino effect introduced itself. I was in Virginia for Matthew and in the water with no damage. I was in our FL marina on the east coast for Ian and had some canvas stitching let go but not a big deal. The problem living in FL is there is NO PLACE TO GO!! People left to head north for Dorian and it followed them.

I’m in a well built FL marina, 5 miles up river. I tie up the best I can, put out a ridiculous number of fenders and then get my family in the car and drive to wherever I think is out if the path. When you live aboard you need one hell of a ditch bag. If you don’t live in FL you can’t truly understand.

 

[psneeld]

Sandy hit at less than a Cat 1 with damge pretty extensive for what it really was. Ian was like 2 mph less than a Cat 5.

Not sure how you remotely compare the 2.

 

[Simi 60]

. The problem living in FL is there is NO PLACE TO GO!! .

.

Well, if you choose to boat in an area where there is no where to run and no where to hide and remain there during season, insurancee companies should be hitting up these high risk areas with appropriate premiums that cover the losses instead of jacking up rates for others who aren't even in the same country.
.

People left to head north for Dorian and it followed them

Clearly they didn't go north far enough.

Over here, many people move their boats 1000 miles or more to be out of the cyclone belt each and every year.
Constant stream on AIS heading south daily for the last few weeks

 

[psneeld]

Well, if you choose to boat in an area where there is no where to run and no where to hide and remain there during season, insurancee companies should be hitting up these high risk areas with appropriate premiums that cover the losses instead of jacking up rates for others who aren't even in the same country.
.



Clearly they didn't go north far enough.

Over here, many people move their boats 1000 miles or more to be out of the cyclone belt each and every year.
Constant stream on AIS heading south daily for the last few weeks

Dorian paralleled the coast between 25-80 miles offshore for at least 800 miles up the coast. No one expected that...they thought it was going to slam SE Florida.

My insurance said leave Florida that year and I did...... I went all the way up to almost North Carolina (around 700 miles) and I still had Dorian storm effects and 3 storm generated tornados withing a mile of my marina.

The US East coast gets some real wanker storms that those of us who have studied hurricanes for a lifetime still have a hard time dealing with our boats.

 

[backinblue]

New England weather is often the accumulation of all other weather in the US

 

[Simi 60]

We get similar here as the map shows
White line used to be approx stay south of line
Purple line is new one

Saying that, we are in the middle of the two
To go South to the purple involves several dodgy bar crossings
Plus they get some pretty nasty weather down south coming up from the ice
Safer for us to stay here as at least there are a few good hidey holes in the mangroves for our 7.5ft draft if needed

 

[garbler]

Sandy hit at less than a Cat 1 with damge pretty extensive for what it really was. Ian was like 2 mph less than a Cat 5.

Not sure how you remotely compare the 2.

You compare these storms by where they land. If you’re on the right side of the eye the storm is pushing water and the big surge into you. If it lands at high tide or even worse a high Spring tide then levels will be much higher. Tampa dodged a bullet with Ian as they caught the left side of the eye which blew all the water out. Many people don’t understand this and proclaim my boat and my house rode out Hurricane - - - - with little damage but the fact is worst case damage always occurs on the right side of the eye. So you can have a bad blow pass you with minimal damage if your on the good side.

If I was on the East coast of Florida and had enough time based on storm forecast I’d run for the St John’s River and go up so far I couldn’t find anything but mullet boats. A lot of commercial guys still consider this big river good shelter.

Rick

 

[DDW]

We get similar here as the map shows
White line used to be approx stay south of line
Purple line is new one

Same thing has happened on the US east coast. It used to be, north of Georgia or Grenada and south. Then a big hurricane hit Grenada. Now it's Trinidad or south, and I think the north line has moved as well.