Protecting our windlass

We have 30’ of chain and 270’ of triple strand nylon line for rode. Do we need to do something to protect our Lewmar windlass from strain at anchor? If yes, what?

Our boat is a 31’ Kingfisher 3125 GFX. It’s an aluminum offshore fishing boat. However, we use it kind of like a water-going Sprinter camper van. This fact just kills our friend who is an avid fishermen. He thinks we’ve neutered an awesome fishing machine.

We plan on practicing our anchoring technique over the next few weeks in the South Puget Sound. We’ve ordered an anchoring book recommended on another thread, and are devouring all the written and video expertise we can lay our eyes and hands on. I’ve also spend an amazing amount of time on this forum!

I realize that our boat is an outlier on this forum. But you folks are the best resource I’ve found for the kind of boating we want to do.

Thanks!

Hal

With a mixed rode, you can simply cleat the rode off to keep the pull off the windlass. Most windlasses aren't meant to hold the boat while anchored, so I definitely wouldn't just let the windlass hold things.

rslifkin said:

With a mixed rode, you can simply cleat the rode off to keep the pull off the windlass. Most windlasses aren't meant to hold the boat while anchored, so I definitely wouldn't just let the windlass hold things.

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Exactly this. Depending on boat design you might need some chafe protection where the rode goes over the gunwale from the cleat.

Yes, just cleat the line off so that it has fairlead and doesn’t chaff. You don’t want that much pull on the windlass.

Do you guys mean that I should cleat the line to that big hefty cleat right behind the windlass? How did I forget about that cleat? Geez, what a major forehead slap moment this morning when I got to the boat.

Thanks for the reminder to use chafe protection on the line!

Use a bridal

Haloo said:

Do you guys mean that I should cleat the line to that big hefty cleat right behind the windlass? How did I forget about that cleat? Geez, what a major forehead slap moment this morning when I got to the boat.

Thanks for the reminder to use chafe protection on the line!

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Cleat the rope off on a cleat on your boat with chafe protection. Not on the windless cleat itself. I only use the cleat on the windless to tie off when the anchor is up and stored.

Sounds like he is referring to a separate cleat, a picture would help.

I personally don't see a need for a bridle on a rope rode, but I suppose you could fashion one using two lines attached to the rode with rolling hitches if you felt the desire.

caltexflanc said:

I personally don't see a need for a bridle on a rope rode, but I suppose you could fashion one using two lines attached to the rode with rolling hitches if you felt the desire.

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Agreed. In really nasty weather I'd probably add a bridle or at least a sacrificial snubber to take the load, just to further reduce chafe concerns on the main rode. But in most conditions, if you have a good way to cleat the line off and lead it off the boat, just cleat it, apply chafe protection and call it good.

I cleat mine and protect as follows (with a 4ft long velcro closure chafe sleeve, much longer than the one shown in the picture).

rslifkin said:

Agreed. In really nasty weather I'd probably add a bridle or at least a sacrificial snubber to take the load, just to further reduce chafe concerns on the main rode. But in most conditions, if you have a good way to cleat the line off and lead it off the boat, just cleat it, apply chafe protection and call it good.

I cleat mine and protect as follows (with a 4ft long velcro closure chafe sleeve, much longer than the one shown in the picture).

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My set up is similar to yours, except that my cleat is welded to the deck about a foot and a half behind and slightly higher than my windlass.

I’ll try to post a picture.

Haloo said:

My set up is similar to yours, except that my cleat is welded to the deck about a foot and a half behind and slightly higher than my windlass.

I’ll try to post a picture.

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Looks very similar, right down to the anchor, although yours is probably a couple sizes smaller.

That cleat isn't necessarily in quite the ideal spot for an anchor rode tie off, but as long as there's nothing in the way between the cleat and the roller, it'll do the job. Definitely make sure to use chafe protection where the line goes over the roller, as there could be significant movement with that much distance to stretch before the cleat.

Also make sure the line can't hit the windlass. If it can, you may have to use a bridle (with chafe protection) through the hawse holes and only cleat the main line as a backup.

Haloo said:

My set up is similar to yours, except that my cleat is welded to the deck about a foot and a half behind and slightly higher than my windlass.

I’ll try to post a picture.

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You could always add an extra cleat around the bowsprit area.

BTW, nothing wrong with using a fishing oriented boat as primarily a floating camper. We did the same thing with a Bertram and fishermen didn't approve, but we wanted good seakeeping and occasional fishing, so built a full length hardtop with side covers over the cockpit.

Enjoy your boat

caltexflanc said:

Sounds like he is referring to a separate cleat, a picture would help.

I personally don't see a need for a bridle on a rope rode, but I suppose you could fashion one using two lines attached to the rode with rolling hitches if you felt the desire.

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The windless has a job to do and that is to lower and raise the anchor. The windless is not designed to take the stresses and strains imposed by mother nature, especially if you have an all chain rode (chain does not stretch like rope). The bridle acts as a shock absorber when you have an all chain rode and distributes these forces over 2 cleats. With an all rope rode, the bridle and cleats distributes the forces to the 2 forward cleats. (Note: Make sure the cleats have a backing plate, unless the cleats are welded to a steel deck)

The bridle physically protect the windless from the stress of the of the boat's motion.

I can think of some exceptions but, I shall leave that for others' to share. The one arm or two arm bridle.

I couch the above with my usual disclaimer, "Do I actually look like I know about this?" The correct answer is "nope". A lot of boating involves common sense.

I tie the bridle to the bollard which is welded to the steel deck. Have no forward cleats except for the useless-to-me atop the windlass. Underway here, picturing windlass and bollard.

markpierce said:

I tie the bridle to the bollard which is welded to the steel deck. Have no forward cleats except for the useless-to-me atop the windlass. Underway here, picturing windlass and bollard.

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When you pass a line through those two hawseholes, port and starboard, to what do you cleat the two fwd lines, onboard the boat?

OldDan1943 said:

When you pass a line through those two hawseholes, port and starboard, to what do you cleat the two fwd lines, onboard the boat?

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The bollard.

markpierce said:

The bollard.

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Get out the welding torch and a couple of cleats. That should give you greater flexibility, if you so desire.

Haloo said:

We have 30’ of chain and 270’ of triple strand nylon line for rode. Do we need to do something to protect our Lewmar windlass from strain at anchor? If yes, what?

Our boat is a 31’ Kingfisher 3125 GFX. It’s an aluminum offshore fishing boat. However, we use it kind of like a water-going Sprinter camper van. This fact just kills our friend who is an avid fishermen. He thinks we’ve neutered an awesome fishing machine.

We plan on practicing our anchoring technique over the next few weeks in the South Puget Sound. We’ve ordered an anchoring book recommended on another thread, and are devouring all the written and video expertise we can lay our eyes and hands on. I’ve also spend an amazing amount of time on this forum!

I realize that our boat is an outlier on this forum. But you folks are the best resource I’ve found for the kind of boating we want to do.

Thanks!

Hal

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Hal, my personal preference is to not end up with the fiber rode taking the strain of anchoring directly to a cleat for a couple of reasons. Using a braided snubber to take the strain will place any chafing on the more expendable snubber (to which you certainly can add chafe protection)rather than on your expensive long rode which you'd rather not have to splice. Also, in an emergency where you may have a huge amount of tension on the rode secured to a cleat, you may not be able to safely release tension on it to let it go free or to start reeling it in with the windlass. Cutting the snubber is a better option, if cutting is required. To make such a snubber, you simply unlay the last six feet of a triple twist line of equal strength of your fiber rode and braid the three strands as is done when braiding hair. You can use this end with a taut line hitch on both chain and rope rode.

markpierce said:

I tie the bridle to the bollard which is welded to the steel deck. Have no forward cleats except for the useless-to-me atop the windlass. Underway here, picturing windlass and bollard.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I think mine would work kind of like yours. Just a cleat instead of a bollard.

rgano said:

Hal, my personal preference is to not end up with the fiber rode taking the strain of anchoring directly to a cleat for a couple of reasons. Using a braided snubber to take the strain will place any chafing on the more expendable snubber (to which you certainly can add chafe protection)rather than on your expensive long rode which you'd rather not have to splice. Also, in an emergency where you may have a huge amount of tension on the rode secured to a cleat, you may not be able to safely release tension on it to let it go free or to start reeling it in with the windlass. Cutting the snubber is a better option, if cutting is required. To make such a snubber, you simply unlay the last six feet of a triple twist line of equal strength of your fiber rode and braid the three strands as is done when braiding hair. You can use this end with a taut line hitch on both chain and rope rode.

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This approach makes a lot of sense to me. I’m just trying to visualize how you make the snubber and then use it. I do know how to tie a tautline hitch. I’ll do an online search for making your own snubber.

My wife asked me earlier today if the folks on this thread knew I was a newbie. I told her that by now they do!

rgano said:

...To make such a snubber, you simply unlay the last six feet of a triple twist line of equal strength of your fiber rode and braid the three strands as is done when braiding hair. You can use this end with a taut line hitch on both chain and rope rode.

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Haha! My wife figured it out right away!

Do you finish the end you are hitching to the rope rode in any particular way?

I’m thinking about making my own anchor bridle. I’d splice together two lines and run each end through a hawsehole (using chafe protection) and to the cleat behind the windlass. Then I’d braid the leg of the “Y” the way Rich suggests to add in snubber-ability, and tie it off to my anchor line with a rolling hitch. While this may be a bit of overkill, since learning line splicing to make my own dock lines I need another opportunity to practice splicing before I forget how to do it.

This would keep extra pressure off the roller, and preserve my anchor rode. Does this sound reasonable? Am I missing something?

Haloo, welcome.
We will not knowingly steer you wrong.
Read all the responses, ask questions.

Southern Boater said:

You could always add an extra cleat around the bowsprit area.

BTW, nothing wrong with using a fishing oriented boat as primarily a floating camper. We did the same thing with a Bertram and fishermen didn't approve, but we wanted good seakeeping and occasional fishing, so built a full length hardtop with side covers over the cockpit.

Enjoy your boat

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Those Bertram and Hatteras sportfish make great cruising boats.

We bought a Bertram 42 MY, but if we did it again, we would really look hard for a SF 42 (it was apparently an option on the 42, to have a steering station in the cabin, but not many were built that way). Just for a little bit more speed when we needed it, and the ease of access at the dock.

Southern Boater said:

You could always add an extra cleat around the bowsprit area.

BTW, nothing wrong with using a fishing oriented boat as primarily a floating camper. We did the same thing with a Bertram and fishermen didn't approve, but we wanted good seakeeping and occasional fishing, so built a full length hardtop with side covers over the cockpit.

Enjoy your boat

Click to expand...

We had the cockpit enclosed with canvas this spring and had a davit installed up top. It almost doubled our living area. Now it is plenty big enough for us and we can easily get a dinghy or kayaks off the top.

We got the boat late last summer and haven’t had much time in it yet. But we’ve found the boat to be amazingly stable and comfortable. It’s pretty Spartan by most trawler standards these days, but a perfect fit for us. It goes back in the water on Monday!

OldDan1943 said:

Haloo, welcome.
We will not knowingly steer you wrong.
Read all the responses, ask questions.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the help everyone!

I have constructed an anchor bridle. Two arms of the bridle attach to the center cleat behind the windlass and extend out a hawsehole on each side of the boat. I spliced the two arms together at 16 feet, leaving an additional twelve feet to the bitter end. I’ll use a rolling hitch to attach to my 3 strand anchor line. Overall the anchor bridle is 30’ from cleat to bitter end.

Next comes testing it out. If I find I need more snubber action, I’ll do as rgano suggests and unlay the final six feet and re-braid it. In the meantime I’ll practice my rolling hitch.

Haloo said:

I have constructed an anchor bridle. Two arms of the bridle attach to the center cleat behind the windlass and extend out a hawsehole on each side of the boat. I spliced the two arms together at 16 feet, leaving an additional twelve feet to the bitter end. I’ll use a rolling hitch to attach to my 3 strand anchor line. Overall the anchor bridle is 30’ from cleat to bitter end.

Next comes testing it out. If I find I need more snubber action, I’ll do as rgano suggests and unlay the final six feet and re-braid it. In the meantime I’ll practice my rolling hitch.

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One additional improvement would be to braid the last six feet or so where you are tying the rolling hitch. It will then hold chain as well as nylon rode.

rgano said:

One additional improvement would be to braid the last six feet or so where you are tying the rolling hitch. It will then hold chain as well as nylon rode.

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How do you finish the braid at the bitter end? Do you whip the end? Or finish it some other way so it doesn’t unravel?

I place a whipping at the point I want to start; unravel the three strands and whip or temporarily tape the three ends and then whip all three together and burn off the end beyond the whipping.