Changes at Nordic Tug

32 NT is my favorite!

BTW, this was the last 32 built before the temporary shutdown in 2010.

tallswede said:

You know, Volvo must know of this problem they have of perception of their product. I guess it hasn't bitten them hard enough for them to change it. I know some folks who have newer Volvos and are happy with them but they don't puft huge hours on them to not have to work on them much. Like someone said, down the line is where it bites people. I guess most people who buy new boats don't keep them long and pass the problem on.

Kevin

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Good post tallswede,
It costs tons of money to carry inventories of old engine parts. I have had lots of old cars and it always amazes me how I can easily walk into a parts store and get parts that probably have been sitting on the shelf for years. Wonder how much it costs to warehouse all those parts?
Some time ago perhaps Volvo decided it cost too much. Scraped the old engine support and no doubt reduced the cost of their product. They seem the only one going that route but it may be a good business place to be. So they could be the smart one.

It never ceases to amaze me how Volvo gets tossed under the bus by people who are fans of the Ford Lehman. Here's a thought, if legacy Volvo marine diesel engine parts are in such high demand why don't one of you with manufacturing experience open a business supplying them.

North Baltic sea said:

Volvolla is a few model of good and strong designs. Earlier boat had 2 x kad44 supercharged engines. Work flawlessly, but maintenance work difficult vs qsb cummins. For example, every 200 hours valve adjustment. Need to take off the oil filter to the foot, all fuel pipes, that allows you to adjust the valves (24), there's a not fine line.

Professional maintenance man to spend a long day engine rooms for about 10 hours with 2 hours of adjust the valves. In addition, it is a lot of money.

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I agree that access to the 44's valves for adjustment is a pain, removing the injector tubes etc. But after my 1998 vintage 44's second adjustment, at 600 hours, in another 17 years and ~6,000 more hours of use, the valve adjustments have needed almost no tweaking. Per one of Volvo America's traveling tech wizards, every 600 hours or so should be plenty. Another mech recommended every 1,000.

Paid for the 2-3 hours to do them several times over the years. Every time, little or no adjustment was required. Don't know why they don't change the official recommendation.

Except for access, very similar to my 24-valve Cummins ISB truck engine, which I have always done myself.

BTW, I have never had any trouble getting a 44 engine part.

On the other hand our 1995 NT42 has a Lugger based on a Komatsu block. Pushing 12,000 hours and still going strong; we don't expect to see anything significant happen during our ownership which is far from over.

As far as I know we have the only NT with a Lugger.

Dvd congratulations to the Nordic Tug 32! Enjoy the trip new tug...




To you with problems with volvo spare parts, you should look at making parts from Sweden or from other parts of Europe, volvo is so common here. In a few places. Please note you have the option to buy tax free to the U.S. so prices can be 19-25% cheaper what is reported, this tax is for us in the EU peoples, a small US Customs and delivery charge may be? ... easy to inquire by email. I have personally subscribed to and then you US the stuff, in a surprisingly easy ...
Volvo Penta -varaosat ja lisätarvikkeet - MarinePartsEurope.com?
https://www.marineparts.se/reservdelar/inombordare/vs-volvo-penta/
Volvo Penta Parts, Volvo Penta Spares – KEYPART

Volvo may currently be making a good line of engines and may have changed their business model on parts availability, but that doesn't address all the people who were kicked to the curb with their legacy motors. Doubt there is anyone here who doesn't expect the engine in their boat to still be running strong 10+ years after the engine is out of production. That's just the nature of our boats and use. Guess we will have to wait and see how they treat the engines made in this century when they become legacy motors. Personally, I'll walk rather than owning anything Volvo.

Ted

Re: Volvo. I´ve owned 10+ boats with inboards, all Volvo Penta. I have never experienced a specific Volvo problem. I work on Caterpillars, MTU an MAN engines all the time - they all have their own problems - not brand related but rather specific model related. Being/chatting on several boat forums, this anti - Volvo US concensus comes through as somewhat defensive. Volvo Penta is HUGE in Europe and not small in North America, Asia and many other parts of the world. Many, yeah, many, builders spec their boats with Volvos - must be a reason for it - huh? It smells like inferiority complex to me. Popcorn bag is in the micro..

A good friend & cruising buddy has a 2010? Tiara w twin Volvos and has had lots of problems.
Mostly Volvo electronics / computer issues and communication w Raymarine equip.
Engines stalled frequently until he found that had a fuel recall/upgrade but never contacted him.
Service has been a problem...only certified dealer isn't very good and 3 hr drive away.
Boat has to be hauled to check / change IPS lube?
Personally I wouldn't take a chance...it's not just the high cost for parts/ filters.

My experience with Volvo comes from the mid '90s. Was chartering a boat that had been repowered with Volvos in the spring. Volvo was having problems with injector pumps. You could get all the new engines you wanted; warranty injector pumps were non existent. The owner went through 3 pumps in 8 months. The dealer to his credit, pulled pumps off his new inventory to help his customers and then had to wait till winter for replacements from Volvo. The lost charters cost me a couple thousand dollars. The owner sold the boat the following spring and bought one with 6-71 Detroits. Probably can't buy parts for those Volvos anymore; still can get anything you want for a 6-71.

Ted

First, congrats to the new NT 32 owner, and welcome to the club! As for the NT switch to Volvo, my understanding is that it related at the time to what engines were available in the sizes they needed that met emissions standards. I belive there was a gap where Cummins didn't have anything in the market until the new versions came out (Tier 2 or 3, can't recall, nor do I recall the size). I think the issue lasted for a year to two.

Personally, we have a cummins, as do many of our boating friends. We have all been very happy with them and parts has never been a problem. Given how many of the 5.9 cummins there are out there, it makes parts easy to locate and quite affordable. I wouldn't necessarily walk from a Volvo, but based on the experience of people we know getting parts, and the price of the parts, I would need a really good reason to get a boat powered by them. We also have a friend who just got a Cabo sportfisher with Cats and he is also very happy (as is another friend with a Searay with twin cats).

dvd said:

After cruising the East Coast/Caribbean for three years on my PDQ 34 I sold it and have come back home to the Left Coast. I've been looking for a NT 32 for several months and have to admit a Volvo engine eliminated a few possibilities. Yes, it's a bias, and I know some people who are pleased with their Volvo engines, but I have to feel comfortable with my choice, even if there's a bit of irrationality involved. Part of that irrationality is my history with 3 Volvo cars in the past. I kept wanting them to hold up to their reputation, but all three cars ended up being problems.

So this week I bought a 2010 NT 32 with a Cummins engine...

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Contrats on the new boat. NT 32s are wonderful boats.

Hmmm. American Tug seems to be doing fine.

Darlin,
What are you looking for ... a ford chevy fight?
This IS a NT thread. Hmmmmm

I have had several boats and must admit that the engines remain a mystery.

I have heard:

Volvo parts are expensive.
Cat 3100 series have bad blocks
Yanmars are wound too tight.
John Deere service is hard to find.

After formally surveying this year (enough $$ spent to buy a good used car) some of the above in my search search I now feel this:

Volvo parts are still expensive but tough engines.

Cat 3100 series are not anything I would ever buy because most owners have no clue how important after cooler service is. I caused a survey a pair of 3126B's and the seller was clueless to what he should have done on PM. The soft block issue is long gone. Aftercoolers are the issue of the day.

I tried to buy a boat with a couple of 600 hp Yanmars and discovered that the aftercoolers had four dissimilar metals inside and six zincs to try to forestall problems. They can't be easily serviced. New ones cost over $5000. Passed on that boat. Only small Yanmars may be wound too tight.


The bottom line is that I went back to Cummins because they are tough and parts are reasonable.

I like my 120 Ford Lehmans. Natrually aspirated and mechanically fuel injected. Easy to maintain. Call American Diesel for parts.

seasalt007 said:

...
John Deere service is hard to find....

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Chose my servicing boatyard since it works on John Deere engines (have a JD 4045), despite being four hours away from home port and requiring car shuttles, but providing an interesting trip. (Have my engine professionally serviced annually.)

seasalt007 said:

I have had several boats and must admit that the engines remain a mystery.

I have heard:

Volvo parts are expensive.
Cat 3100 series have bad blocks
Yanmars are wound too tight.
John Deere service is hard to find.

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That's why I have Perkins!

seasalt007 said:

I have heard: ..............................

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Eventually, you learn not to take anything you read on a forum too seriously.

Far too much brand loyalty out there. And where does it come from? Out of thin air?

Most seem to agree if you don't get a Cummins you're gonna die. And then there's 5 or 6 other engines like Volvo and Lugger. I have an industrial engine (Mitsubishi) most often found on tractors and back hoes. But it does get marineized by at least Klassen, Vetus and Westerbeke. Don't know anything bad about the Mitsu. It's been excellent for me. And there are probably several to many other engines out there. Why not talk about them, buy them and run them?

Volvo parts are expensive but hardley ever need parts. What is bad about any engine? Can one actually buy the wrong engine? Is there a bad engine out there? For that matter is there even a bad car engine? Don't know any.

My guess it's the marineazations.

Nomad Willy said:

Far too much brand loyalty out there. And where does it come from? Out of thin air?

Most seem to agree if you don't get a Cummins you're gonna die. And then there's 5 or 6 other engines like Volvo and Lugger. I have an industrial engine (Mitsubishi) most often found on tractors and back hoes. But it does get marineized by at least Klassen, Vetus and Westerbeke. Don't know anything bad about the Mitsu. It's been excellent for me. And there are probably several to many other engines out there. Why not talk about them, buy them and run them?

Volvo parts are expensive but hardley ever need parts. What is bad about any engine? Can one actually buy the wrong engine? Is there a bad engine out there? For that matter is there even a bad car engine? Don't know any.

My guess it's the marineazations.

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From personal experience and the follow up research I can say there is definitely one very questionable engine out there . The aluminum block Yanmar 440 Hp 6LY2A circa maybe 2001-2007. This engine has been replaced with a 24 valve version in an attempt to avoid the engine bomb throw away cycle. Yes if the engine is given more than average care and maintenance it will survive. It is definitely an engine that runs on the edge of disaster.

Nomad Willy said:

Far too much brand loyalty out there. And where does it come from? Out of thin air?

Most seem to agree if you don't get a Cummins you're gonna die. And then there's 5 or 6 other engines like Volvo and Lugger. I have an industrial engine (Mitsubishi) most often found on tractors and back hoes. But it does get marineized by at least Klassen, Vetus and Westerbeke. Don't know anything bad about the Mitsu. It's been excellent for me. And there are probably several to many other engines out there. Why not talk about them, buy them and run them?

Volvo parts are expensive but hardley ever need parts. What is bad about any engine? Can one actually buy the wrong engine? Is there a bad engine out there? For that matter is there even a bad car engine? Don't know any.

My guess it's the marineazations.

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Wow,
How to answer this?
Of course there are good and bad engines! People often make the mistake of looking at their own personal slice of the world and making assumptions based on it. In reality, over the many numbers of engines produced reliability patterns develop.
I can speak of some of the auto engines I have had to maintain and repair.
Porsche made a lot of water cooled engines that had a lot of incredibly expensive to repair issues as recently as 8 years ago. VW produced direct injection engines that ate camshafts regularly, Volvo produced an inline 6 cylinder turbo gasoline engine that typically did not make it out of warranty without new pistons and rings etc, etc.
Just because you drove a Boxter for 8 years without losing an engine means exactly...nothing, statistically speaking!
So, when it comes to boat engines and the reporting of issues on the internet, my own personal method is to read the complaints with a caution regarding the reality of internet complaining.
In other words, I read what I can find and assess the info accordingly.
I don't give much credit to the guy who complains about what I consider to be a maintenance failure while thinking hard about things I read over and over.
Yanmar and Volvo parts are expensive! Volvo engines are not as well supported as they age as other brands. Got a Cummins #53 casting engine block ? Get ready for a possibly expensive failure!
Like anything else there is a mixture of truth, suspicion and fantasy to be found online when reading about brands of engines. The trick is in figuring out where your interests fit in the mess.
Bruce

FlyWright said:

That's why I have Perkins!

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Same here. Except mine is painted Volvo green. The same engine can be purchased in CAT yellow, Perkins blue, and whatever color New Holland paints theirs...

Volvo in Nordic tug

Having started my boating life in UK the Volvo Penta engines have a reputation for being long lived and very reliable. They have been making large marine engines for a long time. ( don't confuse with Volvo cars , different beasts).
Volvo actually bought out Albin motors to improve their range of small diesels.
I think you will find the choice of engines used is often based on the cost to the manufacturer. As I remember , and it's been a while , Volvo offer a good deal to manufacturers and perhaps make up the price in the long run with part and service .....sound familiar GM , ford etc!
But Volvo did have some duds particularly in the smaller 2-4 cyl range based on the wrong base engines in the 80's.
I was luck enough to recently spend a week on Puget sound, on a Nordic 26, '84 with a fairly new D3-75hp engine ,(500 hrs) 4 cyl with a turbo but not even a hint of turbo whistle. ( in fact I had to look hard to find it had a turbo!)
It had the full electronic fuel control and was a dream engine to run.
Low reving max about 32-3400rpm, we ran about 15-1800 at 6.5knts very quiet and smooth. Best part was the fuel economy 11.9 gal for 29 hrs motoring. About .4/ hr. Magic.
I Bet a similiar engine would work great in the NT 32 as long as you didn't want to go 10-12 knts.
I really liked the 26NT and the 32 looks perfect for my latest plans...... but the 200 hp Cummings ( or more!) in most puts me off, you just won't get much less than 2 gal/hr base in their own fuel usage charts at any speed. Cummins do look like great durable engines though.
Shame the 4 cyl version is not considered very good.....so I've heard......
Cheers, interesting thread
Warren.

Yes I’d love a NT32 w this engine.
But the NT hull is designed to go faster.
One could go slow but seaworthyness, boat handling and economy would be better if the hull was closer to FD. However a FD would only require 50hp.
However it’s fairly close to a (power/hull) match.

My Volvos suffered three rebuilds on two engines due to piston failures caused by faulty parts that Volvo knew about but hid in a service bulletin. I can deal with issues, it happens in the mechanical world. I can't deal with the shoddy way Volvo handles it, or more to the point, did not. Also disagree with the way Volvo leaves all of their customer service to dealers and shirks any responsibility of their own.

I'll never, ever, own another Volvo product. Ever.

I like my 120 Ford Lehmans

ghost said:

My Volvos suffered three rebuilds on two engines due to piston failures caused by faulty parts that Volvo knew about but hid in a service bulletin. I can deal with issues, it happens in the mechanical world. I can't deal with the shoddy way Volvo handles it, or more to the point, did not. Also disagree with the way Volvo leaves all of their customer service to dealers and shirks any responsibility of their own.

I'll never, ever, own another Volvo product. Ever.

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Can't blame you, I would never want a Volvo if I had your troubles.
Warren

warren said:

Having started my boating life in UK the Volvo Penta engines have a reputation for being long lived and very reliable. They have been making large marine engines for a long time. ( don't confuse with Volvo cars , different beasts).
Volvo actually bought out Albin motors to improve their range of small diesels.
I think you will find the choice of engines used is often based on the cost to the manufacturer. As I remember , and it's been a while , Volvo offer a good deal to manufacturers and perhaps make up the price in the long run with part and service .....sound familiar GM , ford etc!
But Volvo did have some duds particularly in the smaller 2-4 cyl range based on the wrong base engines in the 80's.
I was luck enough to recently spend a week on Puget sound, on a Nordic 26, '84 with a fairly new D3-75hp engine ,(500 hrs) 4 cyl with a turbo but not even a hint of turbo whistle. ( in fact I had to look hard to find it had a turbo!)
It had the full electronic fuel control and was a dream engine to run.
Low reving max about 32-3400rpm, we ran about 15-1800 at 6.5knts very quiet and smooth. Best part was the fuel economy 11.9 gal for 29 hrs motoring. About .4/ hr. Magic.
I Bet a similiar engine would work great in the NT 32 as long as you didn't want to go 10-12 knts.
I really liked the 26NT and the 32 looks perfect for my latest plans...... but the 200 hp Cummings ( or more!) in most puts me off, you just won't get much less than 2 gal/hr base in their own fuel usage charts at any speed. Cummins do look like great durable engines though.
Shame the 4 cyl version is not considered very good.....so I've heard......
Cheers, interesting thread
Warren.

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That is a D2-75. Max rpm is 3,000. I know because I put on in my Nordic Tug 26.

The diesel is built by Shibaura diesel in Japan. It is the Japanese version of a Perkins diesel.

For the Volvo haters in the crowd, the same engine comes in Perkins blue, Cat yellow, Lugger white, and whatever color New Holland paints their engines.

I agree that it is well suited to the NT 26 hull.